How many women are just making do with their partner- is it common?

[strawpoll]

I am in a real dliemma. I always knew when I got married that my H was not the "perfect man", not that such a person exists- know that!

However, I chose to go ahead mainly out of fear of being alone, after being hurt a lot in my 20s, endlessly it seemed, and because he gave me some of what I wanted/needed. I did like him, but wasn't sure if it was love. It was a safe option, tbh.

Now, many years on and 2 grown up DCs later, I realise it was a mistake, and I should not have married for those reasons.

Mentally, he doesn't turn me on and I only feel half-alive, if that makes sense- we have a few things in common but not alot and he is a very quiet, solitary person, who doesn't need friends ( has none) or much communication _ I am the opposite- I write and communication is what makes me tick.

He is a good man and I feel very secure, but I can really take him orleave him. My conscience says I should go, but I know heloves me a lot and doesn't want this- if he felt the same, it would be over quickly.

I am weighing up the odds- I'd be a lot poorer, I wouldn't have a "friend" which is really how I see him, my DCs would have divorced parents, and I may never meet anyone else.

I know that no-one can tell me what to do, but so many of my friends say that a lot of marriages are like this and it's "normal". Is it?

I think this is being a bit unfair on Blueshoes. I interpret what she is saying as this: in years gone by, people stayed together, even if it meant their lives were impoverished by so doing, which is exactly your point SGB. Blueshoes actually put this up as an example of the wrong thing to do, noticing with real empathy how sad those choices had made her Dad at the time. Where I disagree is about lying in a bed that is clearly wrong for both of you. That seems the way of bitterness, resentment and two wasted lives.

I hate to see men demonised in this way too. Scores of men marry for love, tenderness and passion and not to "be serviced".

I don't think Blueshoes is saying her way is the right way, but she is saying it's right for her. We are all different. I wouldn't want multiple partners and others would fiercely resist monogamy. Different strokes etc.

I will however say up front that I believe the ideal for most children is two parents who love each other deeply. I don't think it does children any favours growing up in a home where it is pretty obvious there is no love or passion. Better in those cases that kids see their parents happy, but separate. I have no experience at all of the effect on children of polygamous relationships and would be genuinely interested in others' experiences - not that this has got anything to do with the OP and her plight though.

SGB, I am curious why in your last post you gave a whole list of options re: relationships, but did not mention long term monogamy as one of them.

In truly non-gendered fashion, I choose long term monogamy as my preferred option (and I believe I am not alone in this) as can any male.

I hope OP's dh takes the same view as you do of disposable monogamous relationships for the moment (or for 20 years). Problem solved.

post of 12:50 ...

It is insulting to men you are right.My dp and I are together for many reasons and tbg SGB hasn't acknowledged one of them and has just churned out a load of negatives for some reason that she hasn't revealed here

Whenfeelnormal, totally agree that men marry for love and tenderness too. In fact, I think they are the mugs for this. Women tend to be more hard headed, but therein lies settling ...

The crux is you either settle or you don't.

ALL relationships have peaked and troughs but if you don't start off 'feeling' the real love, it is very unlikely to materialise.

Women who marry or have kids with someone just because their clock is ticking or they think he's good 'enough' DO only have themselves to blame, sadly.

I ditched a guy who I thought was 'good enough' earlier this year. He was handsome, very kind, loyal, rich and loved my DD. But I knew from the start that we didn't 'click', he didn't 'get' me and it eventually made me v depressed.

I am still single but don't regret what I did. I might never meet anyone else, I might not have more kids now etc etc. and that is scary, but the thought of spending the rest of my life with a man who didn't understand me almost at ALL was unbearable. Give me the lonely single life, but one with the possibility of a future and real love, any day.

If you choose to settle ( and ignore those first instincts), you run the risk of a half life. Maybe that is what a lot of women do- but I won't.

The crux is you either settle or you don't.

ALL relationships have peaked and troughs but if you don't start off 'feeling' the real love, it is very unlikely to materialise.

Women who marry or have kids with someone just because their clock is ticking or they think he's good 'enough' DO only have themselves to blame, sadly.

I ditched a guy who I thought was 'good enough' earlier this year. He was handsome, very kind, loyal, rich and loved my DD. But I knew from the start that we didn't 'click', he didn't 'get' me and it eventually made me v depressed.

I am still single but don't regret what I did. I might never meet anyone else, I might not have more kids now etc etc. and that is scary, but the thought of spending the rest of my life with a man who didn't understand me almost at ALL was unbearable. Give me the lonely single life, but one with the possibility of a future and real love, any day.

If you choose to settle ( and ignore those first instincts), you run the risk of a half life. Maybe that is what a lot of women do- but I won't.

gosh how nice to know how many in the same boat and agonising over it. for me, and others i guess, it's almost about finding a plausible excuse to split, because it's not enough just because unhappy or lonely. i imagine it is why so many people end up having an affair because that derails the train for them and gives them the excuse they need. i think it is genuinely hard to justify (to yourself) leaving a decent man and an ok marriage just because of nagging unhappiness, esp when young children involved. i had a friend who was in same boat who, after counselling, decided to "kill off" her romantic notions and accept marriage a partnership, often disappointing and stay put. i thought that was kind of heartbreaking, even if it was sensible

I am passionate about people not doing this because I have seen the sadness and damage it has done to my mothers whole life.She settled for all the wrong reasons and thinks the fact that dp and I still love to be together after 18 yrs is 'ridiculous' and not the norm.I feel so sorry for my step father I think she is insulting him by staying undr those circumstances but she says all relationships are like hers eventually .

I don't agree with your mother, noddy, FWIW.

Some people talk about the courage to pursue your own happiness after 20 years' of marriage. But what about the courage to not compromise on love, even though it might mean never having biological children. At least this way, no one gets hurt.

I too believe strongly in not settling on the love front if you are thinking long haul. Like noddy, I had my parent's marriage as an example of how it could go wrong. In one of my past relationships, I also tried to force myself to love someone who was crazy for me, whose mother was my godmother and a close friend of my mother, and who was perfect on paper. I ended up hurting him, because I was so conflicted. So I know you cannot force the 'click' and how uniquely alone that made me feel.

littlestmummy, I believe you have made the right decision that is best long term for both you and the gentleman in question, as well as for your dd. I do truly believe there is that one (or more) right man that will set your world on fire And who will treat you and dd nicely. It will happen but takes time and effort to seek out. Don't give up .

That bloke I called time on is now happily married to a woman who adores him and stuck by him through his long medical studies. They now have a son together. But then he was only 23 when we parted. He got the life he deserved.

blueshoes...your father did NOT put the needs of his family over his own. You said in your own words that he had affairs. That is not putting the needs of his family first. Luckly he got to have affairs and your mom just had to put up with a 2nd class relationship.

strawpoll- I am not going to talk about me any more- done it and I am sick of defending myself.

What no-one- or very few- people have given me credit for is sticking with this through thick and thin for over 20 years so as not to hurt my DH, or my kids. There has been no deceit- I have openly tried to make it work and still am. It has not been a piece of cake.

However, I am speechless at how you appear to put your father on a pedestal and look at your parent's marriage as a fine example of what we should aim for.

Your father had affairs, he- (or is it you?) does not regard your mother as "his intellectual equal". Was he one of those men who took his pleasure elsewhere, broke lots of women's hearts as he always went back to his wife? Is this the kind of behaviour you recommend? Is the fact that your mother never wanted a divorce- and gave him licence I assume to play away, soemthing you think is good? The fact that they are still together now is irrelevant really- most couples even if mismatched get to a stage where they just cannot bear the upheaval.

God, you seem to have a skewed idea of morality if that is what you endorse as a good marriage. Get off your highhorse and oopen your mind a bit.

sorry- problem with the pc- it should say blueshoes at the top of that post.

blueshoes- it's for you- and I am glad someone else pointed out that your father did not put his family first- he lived a deceitful life and pleased himself- he had his proverbial cake and ate it. And you can't see that?

strawpoll, fizz, you probably did not read my posts properly.

I don't endorse my father's marriage. I see as the worst possible example of a marriage. Hence I swore never to compromise myself. It is the last marriage I want for myself I would not wish on my worst enemy. I don't hold my father on a pedestal. Far from it. Not least because of the way he treated my mother with his affairs and selfish ways. My mother often asked me why my father married her in the first place if he never intended to be faithful.

But the fact is my mother gave him the best years of her life and the family he wanted. And he kept his side of the bargain to be with and look after her for life. That I respect.

I'm shocked at some of the responses on here!

Strawpoll - if you genuinely don't think that Relate or couples counselling can save your marriage or 're-ignite' feelings then you should consider ending the marriage. It's not fair on either of you. The two of you only have one life - why waste the rest of it living together lonely and unfulfilled?

You've worked at it for 20 years - your children have grown up with a good loving father. You've done your best.

This idea that you should 'settle' or that staying in this marriage should be some sort of penance for the promises you made so many years ago is utter bollocks.

Nobody is perfect and rarely do partners tick all the boxes and yes compromises are made but not to the extent where you feel lonely and your partner doesn't understand what makes you tick. Surely these are the basics of a good relationship? If they are not there, then both individuals should reconsider their relationship.

blueshoes- how can you see that as a good thing- he stayed and kept his part of the bargain? Is staying what it is really about for you?

The bottom line may well have been that he didn't have the guts to leave even though the marriage was a sham.

Just because he brought home the bacon, or however you want to look at it, and stayed, does not mean he did the right thing. Sounds like he put your mum through hell- and she just accepted it.

Simply cannot see how you feel the end justified the means there.

Because, strawpoll, at the end of the day, my mother married my father because she loved him. And she gave up her job and any hope of independence to bring us up. It is because of her that I am glad my father is sticking by her.

She did no wrong in this.

SGB - I have huge respect for your opinions in so many of your posts on many threads and also for your courage in choosing a different path through life. However, your post at 14.20 left me open mouthed at the vitriol.

As whenwillI/noddyhlder/blueshoes said men often perhaps even mostly marry for love and tenderness not to be 'serviced'. A lot of men marry with the view that they want to be a provider and make a woman happy. I do also think though that a lot of women are quiet hard headed and take a quite calculated decision to marry a man who is willing to be 'provider' knowing full well he does not tick the other boxes. In that kind of calculated relationship I question who is being serviced and who is providing the service.

I think that is exactly what you did strawpoll and now her DH has provided for you for just over 20 years and your DCs have now grown up you want to move on. As I said way back up the thread DH met your 'need' for security when you needed it and he 'needed' love and companionship. He still needs and wants that love and companionship from you (as he has said) but you plainly never needed it from him because it was never really there for you for the last 20 years.

You could divorce now and as recent cases in UK courts have shown it is now an acceptable basis for a woman to claim a significant settlement if she has given up her career to bring up children. If you are determined to go that is what you have the right to do and you already seem to have done some calculation as to what you think you will get and have decided it will make you worse off financially. If that is all that is stopping you going then you clearly 'need' security more than anything else.

Your choice is pretty clear, does your 'need' for (financial) security exceed your 'need' for self actualisation. That defines your predicament.

Strawpoll - I just wanted to say that I get exactly where you are coming from, although I have never been in this kind of situation.

The problems in my relationship were of a slightly different order - XP and I had a great intellectual connection, but were incompatible in other, more practical ways. This became a huge problem, as we had a young DD. We split up, and I am now greatly enjoying being single.

It occurs to me that as you are a bit older, and your DCs have already left home, the practical side of a relationship may not be so important any more. So if you met somebody who ticked your intellectual boxes and 'got' your personality, it wouldn't matter so much if he was (e.g.) a good step-dad or mucked in with the household chores. You could even live separately if you wanted.

I really feel for you - you sound very sad, and I can quite understand why. I agree with the posters who have said that life is too short to feel that way.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

OH FFS, whenever I point out the history of monogamous marriage and some of the reasons for its construction and the way it evolves, people start wailing away about how their marriages are not like that. Well bully for you, if your marriage is an equal partnership that makes you and the other person happy. Honestly, that's just lovely. But it's more to do with luck than anything else.
It's not man-hating to state that women used to be property and in many places still are. It's not man hating (or an exaggeration) to say that some men do feel entitled to be serviced domestically, socially and sexually by women, just stick a virtual pin in half the Relationships threads to see that this is still going on.

What does bemuse me, though, is that people who want to leave a relationship because they feel (like the OP) that they have 'done their time' -and those who aren't very happy but haven't yet decided to leave - is the number of posters suggesting that their reward or next move is going to be another sodding heteromonogamous relationship, as though that would suit them any better. Being single is really, really good, especailly for women (studies show time and time again that single women and married men are far happier and healthier than married women or single men - married men are happier than single men because they get taken care of, single women are happier than married women because they don't have to do the caretaking.) yet single people are forever being pestered to pair bond, offered completely unwanted and condescending sympathy for their singlehood, and overcharged for stuff.

SGB, a happy equal relationship is not entirely or even mostly due to luck. It is about knowing yourself, what makes you happy, taking responsibility for that, seeing the other person for what he is and not settling.

Agree about singlehood though. Before I met dh, I was reconciled to being single and childfree for the rest of my life, since I did not meet anyone who fit the bill for so long.

Whoooooo, Abetadad, I'm surprised at you. They provided for each other. Strawpoll has never mentioned whether she worked or stayed at home. And if she did raise their children then she provided care for their children while he provided money for their keep (so to speak).

Blueshoes - Why was your mother asking you why your father stayed, surely only he can answer that question? And yes it did seem like you put him on a pedestal.

Great thread, some v interesting and insightful posts. I'm not sure yet if I'm settling, a grass is greener type etc but I certainly wouldnt have the guts to post my story on here as I'd prob be lynched by some of you (the old 'you took your vows' brigade). So well done strawpoll. Pretty good debate too with a couple of minor blips.

How do you think this will affect your children? Do they know you are unhappy in your relationship?

Life is too short. You sound like a very strong woman who is full of life and vibrancy. Good luck with whatever you decide but you should think about your happiness first.

Blueshoes: Fair point. But part of the 'luck' lies in not having had a string of disasters that have warped your ideas about human interaction (one, maybe two, bad relationships don't inevitably do lasting damage, bad family background followed by more than two toxic relationships means a uch higher likelihood of further crap). Another part of the luck is in not getting mixed up with the worst sort of manipulative abusers.

No Salleroo, my mother asked me (rhetorically) why my father married her in the first place.