Toxic Dad – sorry a bit complex

[twoteachers]

DH and I have been married for three years now. We are both teachers and as we live roughly half way between our two sets of parents we see them about the same number of times per year. Suddenly my parents have announced that they are planning to move to the town where we live but without giving us any obvious reason why. It very much seems to be Dad?s idea and I don?t think Mum is that keen.

I had a very difficult relationship with Dad when I was living a home. Sometimes he was violent, sometimes there was some ?accidental? but inappropriate touching and really we just didn?t get on from when I was 14 to 22. I don?t want him back in my life more than he is a present. I still feel a bit uneasy being on my own with him and he makes my flesh crawl if he even touches me socially.

Neither DH or I know what to do.

Well,you either have to move or just not see them, however close they move.
You do not have to visit them or allow them to visit you.

You sound like an intelligent, sorted person so think about what you would feel comfortable with.

Your mother is completely out of order for even suggesting it is your fault somehow, it never surprises me how many people use the 'it is so long AGO' excuse, time does not erase hurt, it merely makes it easier.

She's trying to manipulate you. If you speak to her again I'd be tempted to say something like, "I am not rejecting anyone - I am making a choice not to spend time with family members who make me uncomfortable and who do not take my concerns seriously. If you choose to see that as rejection, I cannot change that."

I absolutely do not recommend lying or even fudging why you don't want them to move. If they do move anyway, you still have the right to say that you will not be spending any additional time with them even if they've moved. And if your mum complains (perhaps you're ungrateful, she's moving to be closer to you etc etc) point out that you did nit ask for this.

Being honest, while hard (as you've already found), is a much better position and allows you to keep and maintain a consistent, moral high ground.

Your mum is out of order, but she's panicking because it's a huge thing for to have to admit she's stayed with and defended this man who has been so damaging and who you're still scared of. To face up to that she has to accept she didn't protect you and has effectively not been a good mum. It's too much for her so she's projecting and blaming you.

But that doesn't mean you have to back down - you can keep stating your case and making it clear what you will and won't play along with, and exactly how much you are prepared to see them, and why. "Being a family" isn't some sacred holy cow that your parents have an automatic right to - if your dad is a danger and your mum supports him, then you don't have to put up with it. your mum has a lot to learn - however she may come round and see your point of view. Don't give up and don't doubt your feelings - you're in the right here.

Well done for taking that step as well.

How it all coming along Twoteachers? Other posters have said how brave you are being and I agree. I said and did too little for too long and I think that did me at least some harm that never got better. You might find making a stand now is the best thing you could have done.

There isn't much new to report. I had a "signed for" letter from Mother today suggesting two possible meetings. One is just the two of us and the other is both of them, DH and I and the local vicar (their best friend BTW) to act as the chairman.

I don't know at this stage what I want to do and with the new academic year starting I am just about at my busiest at work.

I did have one short phone session with a therapist suggested to me by a friend I have know for 20 years. She suggested that identifying triggers, situations that make me particularly streesed in relation to Dad, would be a first step. I have not done anything about doing this yet.

Blimey that all sounds a bit mad. Signed for letter?

I would stay away from the idea involving the best friend vicar - your dad will hardly be coming clean with him will he? But your mother no doubt thinks that having a vicar on board proves she is right and you are being the wrong-headed one.

If you have to take up one of the options just see her on her own.

They have no right to decide to impose themselves and barge back into your life. You don't have to let them.

I think the therapy will be a lot more useful if it's done in peace, and not in a rush because you are worried that you are going to have to see him on a daily basis again.

Have you read that Toxic Parents book that a lot of people on here recommend - search in Amazon.

I think the saying is, "If in doubt do nowt".

However, you will eventually have to address these issues and I would strongly suggest you have counselling for your own self before going anywhere near a meeting with your parents (which I would never attend anyway given your past circumstances).

What is being proposed here by them is mainly for their own benefit and certainly not yours and her idea of using their vicar friend as a chairman is a particularly bad idea. Again this is all about power and control, using another authority figure to back up the ideas of their own selves. I am also in agreement with Katisha's comments in their entireity.

Toxic Parents has a chapter in it about abuse and I would suggest you read that as well.

twoteachers - you have been very brave to acknowledge that what was done to you was wrong and to make sure that you distance yourself from people who are trying to justify their wrongdoing.

I don't want to hijack your thread but you might find it useful to look at my post at 02:41:40 on page two of this thread that's also dealing with issues of abuse. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/818473-My-world-is-crashing-down-please-help

You will see that even though I met with my abuser on neutral territory he would not accept any blame. That reaction and the lack of support from (some) of my family was the hardest thing of all because it made out that I was the unreasonable one.

My only regret is having that meeting with him and not just going straight to the police.

Hard as it seems, my only advice would be to cut off those who choose not to accept that you were wronged and surround yourself with only positive people who value you for the wonderful person you are.

You're doing great so far.

Please do not go to either of these meetings, I can't believe the nerve of your mother to actually propose this [shock}

You will be far better off get some independent counselling. Please read the Toxic Parents book, it will be a real eye-opener. Do read it when your parent is around, as it may be upsetting.

I think what your Ps are trying to do, especially with the vicar, is roll over you, tank-wise. This has the potential to be a very painful experience for you. I would not be inclined to go to the individual meeting with your mother either, because essentially she has abused you too all these years, in her own way. She has a lot to lose from admitting you are right (because what sort of mother does that make her? What sort of judgement does she therefore have to have believed her H all these years?) Women like her can be vicious in trying to protect their version of events, their happy family story, their version of their own lives and their reputation as a mother). btw, I would keep your DCs away from your father at all costs. What he did to you might just be the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes men who molest children get worse and cast a wider net for victims as they get older, branching into different age groups.

Here is a bit of an update. I have a couple of meetings with an experienced expert in this field. It helped me a lot just to talk about what happened and to explore how and why Dad tried to make punishing me as humiliating and generally unpleasant for me as he could get away with.

I will never be left on my own with my Father again and I have made that quite clear to both of them.

They have provisionally sold their house and hope to move into a rented house near us while house-hunting. I am starting to feel quite alarmed about this you can be sure!

Do you have more sessions on this planned? Is it worth sending a 'signed-for' letter back giving the ground rules?

So sorry you're having to go through this - I hope you can get free of him. xx

I would be tempted also not to see your Mum alone.

If you decide to see either/both of themwith an intermediary,make sure it is one of your choosing.

Not the blooming vicar who´s a friend of theirs!

Regardless of the abuse that you suffered I think it is out of order for your parents to move to the town that is your home without you agreeing to it.

I have no experience in this field but could you write them a letter explaining that a move to your area will not mean increased contact with you as you have no intention of seeing them anymore than you currently do and that it may even drive a wedge between you and force you to move away from the area.

It is very controlling behaviour from your parents and I can't believe that they are jeopardising the fragile relationship that they do have with you.

can I ask a question please?

What's your opinion on a girl reporting her GDad (DF's dad) touching her inappropriately to her mum but nothing being done about it because he was in the family and everyone wanting to avoid mentioning it at all to avoid scandal etc?

It's called being an accessory to the abuse for the mum to do nothing about the report? This is double abuse; the child has been betrayed in two different but related ways by two people she should have been able to trust not to hurt her and to protect her.

One thing that was very impressive about the expert I saw was the way she was able to predict in advance almost every stage of my Dad's abuse.

The gradual increase in the frequency and severity of the punishment is typical because the effect on the abuser of his behaviour gradually diminishes and so he has to do "more" to get the same effect.

The attempts to get me to accept punishment without a chaperone present was a bad sign and I am thankful I never accepted the offer. "We don't want to upset your Mother do we?" was just one method he used. Arranging things so the chaperone couldn't really see what he was doing is also typical.

Much of the rest is too disgusting and distressing to write about here but I was lucky to have always had one layer of clothes on my bottom - many abused girls don't.

What I will never forget or forgive is that both my parents played a role in what happened and that both are in denial.

That creepy use of the word "we", as if you and he were in cahoots in some way... Your therapist sounds really great.

I have a session booked with my counsellor and my Mum on Tuesday which is during the school holiday. Dad has not been invited and if he just turns up I am out of there. Please think of me on Tuesday 2:30 to 3:30.

good luck twoteachers. remember you don't have to do anything you don't want to. you are in control of your own life.

Please have a look at the Stately Homes thread in Relationships, there are lots of us on there in your situation.

Just read this thread twoteachers

I can't believe your parents are insisting on invading your space in such a horrible and thoughtless way. I think I'd be thinking about taking out an injunction against them so they couldn't do it!

I do agree with everyone else re. the counselling though and I'm glad you're doing it. Whatever you do about this moving malarky, you've still got to deal with all the crap inside you. Good luck for Tuesday.

The meeting went very badly and i became so distressed that I was not able to continue. I didn't even feel safe driving so I walked to the bus station and caught a bus home. Mum simply would or could not accept any general concerns of mine and when I tried talking about specific incidents she just kept saying she didn't see that happening. I completely broke down when I tried to talk about the one time I was caned rather than belted and how between the canings he groped me. She was there, it was her that he rushed up stairs when he had had his fun with me and she says she didn't realise!