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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

FAB & GLAM 10 - Gosh, Do We Really Talk That Much???

1000 replies

Dumbledior · 26/07/2009 21:51

Hi, new thread

Lovely to see all the old posters again. Don't go now you are back.

Annie/UC/MHIS - lovely to see you and thanks MHIS for the FB chat.

OP posts:
TimeForMe · 12/11/2009 18:40

Well Done to your DD McD! That's brilliant!!

Hope you manage to get to the meet up McD, I think a chat and a laugh with the Teabags is just what you need right now

macdoodle · 12/11/2009 18:44

She really is quite good and lovely to watch
It is however a nightmare as its an hour and a half until 7:30pm and I obviously have to take DD2 with me, she gets hot and bothered and tired, and we get home very late!

XH has NEVER EVER seen DD1 swim, never taken her never watched her I suggested to him, that maybe it could be an evening he has with her (he never sees her alone now anymore, always my 2 together PLUS OW and their DD), so poor DD1 feeling very neglected by him, thought it would save poor DD2 from being dragged along, he could take her for tea, watch her and bring her home!

Silly me, he will never do anything that he sees as helping ME, its irrelevant the effect on the children - he looked at me with disdain and said nope not possible god he is a pathetic excuse for a man and a father!

TimeForMe · 12/11/2009 19:22

I'm sorry you and the girls are having to put up with this.

You know, sometimes it is for the best, for you anyway, to just give up on the ex, to have no expectations of him at all and just concentrate on the DD's yourself. I know you shouldn't have to and I know you desperately want him to be a good father for the girls sake but I'm afraid it's something you just can't force. I gave up expecting anything from my ex and he dug a very large hole for himself as far as the kids were concerned, none of them have very much to do with him now, he tried to be a 'father' far too late. His loss, my gain, I have fabulous kids who are a credit to me, just me

Oooh and just wait until DD is asked to swim for England, the training starts at 5am!!!

Lilyloo · 12/11/2009 20:05

Tanee off to look now.
I agree you are so patient. I think you are right he is aware of what he is doing but trying to turn it round so he is the victim i really don't know how you have coped with his moods and unreasonable behaviour for so long
You sound like you know what you need to do though.

McD that's great news about dd. Mine is nearly 5.
It's funny as i was thinking that tonight. Ds goes to football 6-7 three nights a week and i have to drop him off and take the girls which they don't like but at least dp collects him. He also does the rainy matches on a Sunday. I would find it so hard without his help esp now dd1 activities are increasing. He does get taken and picked up by another dad whose son plays with him one night though. We have just got friendly with them might be worth striking up a conversation with another parent at swimming and see if you can do alternate weeks.

TFM i agree what you say to McD (again ) she will be proud of them girls and they will be proud of her. Ex will have no part of that.
My neighbour just got her first pair of uggs after her op on my reccomendation and loves them

All quiet here dc in bed and i am about to crack open a bottle of wine and watch the restaraunt.
Evening all

HappyWoman · 13/11/2009 06:37

oh can i join in the gloat?

We had 2 parents evenings this week. Ds2 (3rd child) had a glowing report. I know he is clever but tends to get overshadowed by the older 2 at home. He has also been choosen to do some extra music at school as he seems to have some talent (although i dont know where that comes from we are all tone deaf ).

Lilyloo · 13/11/2009 12:35

Well done to ds HW the littlies do get overshadowed so nice he is coming to the forefront at school!!

Tanee off to search for boots now will let you know.

Lilyloo · 13/11/2009 12:56

Can't find any sorry some similair here though ..

smiliar

these

maybe

Diormissesyouall · 14/11/2009 23:25

Hi girls. Wanted to let you all know that I am still around, but not posting. Sorry to see that man situations are still not good, although it is nice to hear that Baffy and PC have some positive things in their lives.

I turned 40 a few weeks ago - thanks to Tanee for the card - it was very funny and totally true!

H took me away for the night the weekend after my birthday. We had a lovely time and got on like a house on fire. I have lost 20.5 lbs and have joined a gym. I am getting fitter and thinner, which has been great for my confidence. Still a long way to go but I intend to get there.

I am up for a meet too, so please don't forget about me...

TimeForMe · 15/11/2009 11:21

A belated Happy Birthday Dior

And cor blimey!! Well done on the weight loss, that is brilliant!! It's good to hear you sounding so positive

ginnny · 15/11/2009 22:36

Wow Dior - that's fantastic. Well Done You!
I've been wondering how you are, so pleased things are going well for you.

Tanee58 · 16/11/2009 14:13

Hi Teabags,

Dior, fantastic to see you on the thread again - just keep posting here with your chums - forget all the nasties on the other threads - though it strikes me that some of the nastier flamers have calmed down recently. Glad to hear you had a good birthday and WELL DONE on the weight loss. I really need to lose some myself but am in a comfort food mood - lots of cheese and pastry. Need to get in a more positive frame of mind before I control the eating.

So how would a Saturday suit the rest for our meetup? It would certainly be great to see McD again - we had such a laugh last time. Dior, of course you are counted in/on.

Lilyloo & TFM thanks for offering to boot hunt for me. I seem to have my heart set on this particular pair - can't believe there are no size 5s left in the entire country! DD says she'd spotted the same pair - we do have similar tastes in shoes - and she's a size 7 - but she's already bought some very emo pointy suede boots, so her boot budget is spent.

Have been feeling a bit low again - plus nursing a bit of a hangover from going pubbing on Friday night. What is it with pub wines!? DP and I talked a bit after I found him sobbing to loud music just before we went out. He was cheerful whilst with our friends, but when we got home we talked a bit about 'the situation' as he calls it. Didn't get anywhere, particularly as we were both fairly drunk. He still blames DD for coming between us - he thinks she deliberately chose the bedroom next to ours, rather than staying in the room at the other end of the house, so that she could be obtrusive - which is absolute pants. If I'd been her, I'd also have wanted that room because its proportions feel bigger. Anyway, before she moved into that room, he'd already started being negative - blaming the cats. He says that he started not feeling at home the night he returned from Germany, two months after we moved in, and found the door locked (I always throw the catch before going to bed, and did it automatically, but he felt I'd deliberately shut him out). One of his friends, who managed to get him to talk to her recently, suggested that he start trying to mend bridges by writing an apology to DD - but he won't. Seems he won't do ANYTHING to make things better, but still says that DD's place is with me - so how the hell can we resolve this? Oh, and he still insists that he wants to commit slow suicide by drinking. He must really hate his life.

Had a long talk with my sister last night, and came to the sad conclusion that I have to be really tough with him, ask him exactly what he wants and tell him that what I want is to have DD home with me until she finishes school, that he will therefore have to find somewhere else to live in the short term, till she goes to college, and that to be brutally frank, if he wants to be with me in the future, he will HAVE to seek professional help - otherwise, once DD has gone, he will find some other thing to blame - like the cats again. I just don't understand why he prefers to go through all this pain, and put me and DD through it as well, when the help is out there! In fact, on Friday night I told him that, much as I loved him, I really, really hate what he's done and is doing to us.

I'm beginning to face the fact that, if he won't get help, I will have to face my life without him - and oh, it breaks my heart. It's such a waste of what we had.

Sorry to be so dismal girls. So hey, let's arrange that meet up. I need some positivity to help me look forward to Christmas. Come on - dates?

Lilyloo · 16/11/2009 14:24

Dior well done you

Tanee i think what you have decided with your sister is the way to go. I cannot see him doing anything to change the situation so you will have to.
I guess until he knows why he does this (ignoring his use of blaming everyone else) then you cannot begin to understand why he is doing it either.
I am sorry it has come to this for you , but you have given it everything and now it's up to him.

All good here , had our first night out together in nearly a year on Sat. It was so lovely to get out and we had a great time. Have decided that we need to prioritise a night for us at least once a month.
'Us' is usually last on our list and this needs to change.
Not sure money or sitters will allow this but we need to at least try.

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 16:09

Tanee I think DP needs help now, professional help. His thinking worries me. DD isn't at home yet he still blames her for how he is feeling. He has to take responsibility for himself and how he is feeling and not blame DD. But I think deep down he knows this and that is where his conflict lies. DD is no longer around but yet he still feels in despair. Soon he is going to be forced to look at what the real problem is, he is going to have to be truthful with himself and with you. Right now I think he is deflecting from the real issue, he is denying it, burying it or maybe he doesn't even know what 'it' is but whatever is going on with him it has no relation to DD, he can't use that one anymore because that issue has been removed. I'm really sorry Tanee but I think this is too big for you to cope with alone, I don't think you are able to help him, he needs to make some effort to help himself now.

I'm not sure the 'hard word' will have any effect either. I think he will just sink deeper into his 'poor me' way of thinking. He will still blame whatever it is he wants to blame. I'm sorry sweetheart, I really do hate to say this because I know how much you love him but I think the time has come to save yourself. I hate to say it but I have to say it because if I don't I would be enabling you in the same way that you are unwittingly enabling DP xx

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 16:12

Lily I'm pleased to hear you and DH are back on track. You can do 'date nights' at home if you can't afford to go out. Get the kids to bed early, cook a nice meal, get dressed up, tele off, music on, candles and so on. Who needs to go out

HappyWoman · 16/11/2009 16:19

I agree with you TFM - you can date night very cheaply - either stay in or go somewhere cheap.
It took me ages to find a baby sitter who i would trust. But honestly once you do take that step you will feel a lot better.

so sorry tannee - i have no experience of what you are going through - just listen to TFM.

Tanee58 · 16/11/2009 16:34

Thanks for the support, girls, as always . I agree, I cannot help him any more - by doing so, or keeping quiet, I am just enabling him further.

Something my sister suggested, was whether I should let his family know what's going on. It is very unfair that MY family are bearing the burden of HIS family's f**d up background. His youngest sister is probably the least damaged, and her DH is a doctor - so do you think it might be an idea for me to let her know what's going on? They don't keep in close contact, but they are fond of each other - what do you think? At least, if he and I do split up, they will be there to support him.

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 17:02

Tanee, I think you need to think of you now. DP is a grown man and if he wants his family to know then it is up to him to tell them. If you do leave and they approach you in an effort to find out what is going on then by all means tell them but I'm not so sure involving them at this stage is a good idea. In a way it is passing the responsibility of caring for him onto someone else when that is the last thing that needs to happen. DP needs to start caring for himself.

My heart really breaks for you Tanee because I know how much you love him, how much you want to care for him and make everything alright but I'm afraid sweetheart that is an impossible task. DP needs to want to be helped and he needs to help other people to help him. That just isn't happening at the moment, he isn't interested is being helped. If you involve his family they will only begin the impossible task of trying to help him and so take over the role of enabling him.

As much as you love him DP needs to hit rock bottom. He needs to wake up one morning and be truly alone, no one around him, he needs to feel it in order to realise that he wasn't alone when he had you. He needs to realise that his behaviour has driven away everything good in his life, he needs to be left with himself to face his demons. Only then will he reach out to you for your help. At the moment he has no need to do any of those things because no matter how badly he behaves you are by his side, no matter how much you may complain to him, show him how upset you are, you still stand by him. He gets the message that no matter what he does you will always be there for him. Even now, while thinking about leaving him you are taking care of him by asking if you should contact him family. Tanee darling you have to stop. You have to stop being his carer/enabler and start caring for yourself.

Let's look at it this way. On the one hand you have a beautiful, happy, funny, delightful dd who loves you, appreciates you and wants to live with you. On the other you have a depressive alcoholic who is choosing to very selfishly commit slow suicide by drinking, not thinking of you or what his actions and words do to you. Why do you think you feel so responsible for DP? This goes way beyond being in love with him. You can love him without being responsible for him, without sacrificing everything that is good in your life for him. By leaving him you are not abandoning him nor stopping your love for him, you are making the decision to live your life for you not for him.

I have a feeling that you will feel guilty if you leave him, that you are scared that something dreadful will happen and you will feel responsible. Tanee, you have to understand that this is not the case. DP is completely responsible for his own life and there is nothing at all you can do to stop him from doing whatever he wants to do. He has a right to choose to live his life how he pleases and he has chosen to live it this way. You have no reason to feel guilty, responsible or anything for him. No reason whatsoever. xx

Tanee58 · 16/11/2009 17:30

Thanks TFM, and as always, you are, I feel, absolutely right. And yes, I DO worry about what will happen to him on his own. At the same time, I actually WANT him to hit rock bottom, if it makes him get help, as without that I feel we have no future. I was, in fact, so PLEASED when I walked in to find him crying. I hoped that might be a watershed - pardon the pun! and that it would open him up. It was really a pity that we were just about to go out - and being the actor he is, he was very cheerful once we got there. I actually had a message on FB from one of our friends, asking how things were because she thought we seemed so happy on Friday night! (she's an actress too, she'll understand!). I don't know her terribly well, but she's still offered me support if needed. People are so nice!

So - now I need to grasp the bull and tell him I want him to leave asap. I can't leave - I need the house for DD and the cats and I can't afford to rent - and he's said he'd go, but hasn't - and I doubt VERY much if he's been looking for a room seriously. At least I have plenty of support - both my own friends and some of his, I can talk to them even if he won't. I know I'll get by, and I do so look forward to hearing DD tramping about upstairs playing her emo music again laughing with her friends again.

Soo ... wish me strength!

HappyWoman · 16/11/2009 17:50

thinking of you tannee, and here when you need us.

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 17:51

I wish you all the strength in the world sweetie, I really really do. You do know you are going to be just fine don't you? You will feel like a huge weight has been lifted. You have been granted permission to leave, to detach without guilt or a sense of responsibility. You have been released Not that you needed permission but sometimes I think we feel we do. Especially when we are so deeply involved. It can feel uncaring and unloving to leave and of course, we don't want to person we are trying to help to see as as anything less that loving and caring, we don't want them to think ill of us.

I am going to go one step further now Tanee and ask you to have a period of time where you have no contact with DP at all. Have some time to just relax with DD and your cats, enjoy your home and the freedom you will have in it. When you feel you want to talk to him get out your journal and write to him in that. You must do this not only for yourself but for him too. If you two are to get back together then you must only do so when he has sought help and is on the way to recovery, well on the way to recovery.

How do you feel right now Tanee? Lighter of heart at the prospect of having colour in your life rather than just shades of grey and black? I do hope so

Tanee58 · 16/11/2009 18:05

Thanks HW & TFM. I don't think it's the 'permission' thing that worries me - it's the sadness that we were given a second chance and he's blowing it again. It takes me back to the misery I was going through exactly 20 years ago. The feeling that nothing changed in the long run - it just took longer to go wrong. So I'm not feeling lighter - yet - and I am DREADING having 'the talk' with him.

Anyway, better go home now and see if I can do it tonight. May have to clear the back room for myself again. It's full of old stuff that my mother's cleared out of cupboards in her house - what I used to call my 'archives'- boxes of crap treasures going back 40 years!

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 18:37

Thinking of you Tanee. Sometimes we have to let go in order to go forward. Your actions don't mean that things are finished but it will ensure a change. Hopefully, it will be a positive change and you and DP will have the wonderful relationship you long for xx

Lilyloo · 16/11/2009 20:03

Good luck Tanee i can only imagine this is going to hurt an awful lot before it feels better but you need to do it for you and dd.

Do you think you can make the break you need by moving into the spare room though ?

ginnny · 16/11/2009 21:27

Oh Tannee - I feel for you, I know how much you love him, but TFM is right. You can't go on like this. I hope the talk goes OK tonight.
here is a link on detachment which was posted on the support for partners of alcoholics thread. I found reading it really helped when I was going through all my problems with DP. I know its all easier said than done though .
Lily - glad things are OK again with you and DH. Its easy to forget about you two as a couple when there is so much else going on in your lives but it is important to have some couple time.
I could do a Saturday meetup - if it came to it I'd bring the monsters boys with me and plug ds1 into my Ipod and ds2 into his gameboy - you'd never know they were there

TimeForMe · 16/11/2009 21:39

Ginny, that link is brilliant!

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