FAB & GLAM 10 - Gosh, Do We Really Talk That Much???

[Dumbledior]

Hi, new thread

Lovely to see all the old posters again. Don't go now you are back.

Annie/UC/MHIS - lovely to see you and thanks MHIS for the FB chat.

Oh well done TFM And hurrah re the rabbit Of course the CAFCASS woman has put you in charge of dd. Who else would safeguard her interests as well as you? No one It's a shame they couldn't enforce the standing order though.

Read every bit of it, of course I did. Well done indeed. Well done CAFCASS as well. It sounds like quite an ordeal, even if you did have lots of support and the outcome was as reasonable as could be expected. It is not a bad thing that you couldn't look him in the face; if you were fully confident they might have drawn the conclusion that things hadn't been that bad. The most amazing thing (at least for people who've never been there) is that you were pretty much the last person involved to actually realise how bad it was! Btw the technical term for what he is is "abusive bastard" .

Hope the rabbit comes home in one piece, not ready jointed and trussed...

TFM that's fabulous news about Bunny! - and it sounds like he has been thoroughly outed. Can he not post the cheques? I would love to have seen his face when he was being called an abuser!

Annie, lol at your 'Jack Kerouac' ex and his crap, and Ginnny too. Yes, what is it with men and crap? DP brings back piles of colour supplements from his job - I know he'll never read them, they're just piled up in the dumping dining room. I know I accumulate junk too, but MY junk is essential junk .

He also brings home the free packets of seeds from Amateur Gardening - as little gifts for me - but they're more than I can plant in a lifetime. TFM, sudden brainwave, would you like some for your garden? Or any other teabags? I can list them and send to any takers...

Hello all

Annie you're so funny, had me in stitches, especially with the stand up

TFM, I know I've bored you via text but just wanted to say again how pleased I am for you. I'm sure none of this is easy, but you've come so far in such a short space of time and things can only get better.
Remember, if you're ever at a loose end then I can head over with a bottle of wine (or two ) and we can finally meet up!

Everything ok for me. Still battling a bit with H as I want the divorce to go through as quickly as possible now and as you'd probably expect... He doesn't. I know I should just move on, but sad as it sounds, I really did mean my vows and I find it so hard to actually move on when I am still someone?s wife!! What do I do if I get chatting to someone when I'm out, say ?oh yes I'd love to go out with you, I am married with two kids by the way, but don?t let that put you off??
He won?t let go. I?m guessing that deep down, he doesn't want me, but doesn't want anyone else to have me either. Just in case he changes his mind. But after 4 years of hell, enough is enough!!

Was wondering if anyone has any words of wisdom about non-sleeping babies too??
Ds2 is just an absolute nightmare. He is so so unsettled ? ALL NIGHT! He's in my room now as there's no other space, which isn't helping. So he wakes up and screams for me, proceeds to throw everything out of the cot, and I give in and put him in bed with me before he wakes ds1 up and the rest of the house up.
So that's probably my first failing.

But? I give him calpol before bed as I know he really struggles with teething. So much worse than ds1 was. He's not hungry because I try milk, which he just pushes away, and I try water, which he has a sip of and then pushes away.

So? he's in with me and he is just so unsettled. Tossing and turning all night. I have no idea what is up with him. I can honestly say last night that he only actually slept, and I mean was STILL, between about 1am and 4am. The rest of the time, he's not crying, and his eyes are closed, but he's just so restless and moaning and it's driving me mad!!! If he headbuts me one more time I'm going to get us both a padded cell!!!

Any advice??.. [hopeful emoticon]

He doesn't want to move on with the divorce because you're his feckin' meal ticket . Just do what you have to do. There's a limit to how much foot-dragging the court will allow him to do.

Sleepless child: I'm the worst person to give advice, sorry. We had DS4 in our bed for three years. He was a little wriggler too. When he got old enough to be distracted by telly we put his favourite videos on, in relays, all night. How did we survive it? Dunno. In the meanwhile, though, I'd as soon have him in my room where it's easy to deal with him. It does sound like yours has a bit more going on than just being a poor sleeper; the teeth as you say, and perhaps colic? (DS2 had colic a fair bit as a baby and is still a bit fragile in the stomach even now - he's 23!) Can the clinic/health visitor advise or is he a bit old for that?)

Glad you liked the funnies. I used to have a sense of humour in the old days; nice that it seems to be creeping back. It does break out inappropriately sometimes (have had to bite my tongue on a couple of threads that are too serious for the treatment).

Yes thanks, health visitor is a good idea. It's exhausting, especially with nobody to share the load. I'll make an appointment next week I think and see what they suggest...

Hi Baffy, with regard to the baby, he isn't getting too warm is her? Or does he have a stuffy nose at all, making breathing a bit difficult for him? Just a couple of thoughts I think the HV will say you are making a huge rod for your back by putting him into bed with you I can understand why you do it though

PS you didn't bore me at all with your texts!!

That should read "is he"

Re sleepless babies - no useful advice other than to see if your hv clinic runs a sleep clinic. Mine does but nothing like that available when I was climbing the walls with ds (who didn't sleep properly til he was 3). dd only sleeps well on her tummy. Have you tried different positions to see if he will settle better? dd is very good compared with ds but imo it's just luck as I tried all the same things with ds.

Thanks guys

LL he turns himself, so no matter how I position him he just moves anyway.

I've tried think layers, thin layers, olbas oil, sleeping bags... you name it. Perhaps he may just be one of those babies who never sleeps!

I will see what words of wisdom the HV has...

Quick crash from the resident lurker to say hip hip hurray for the return of the rabbit TFM! It is the furry kind and not the other isn't it? That's one in the eye to HWSNBM - well, that and the fact that he was well and truly put on the back foot in all senses! All that's left now is for you to enjoy a relatively HWSNBM-free existence and finally get your life back - I'm so pleased for you!

Glad everyone else seems to be doing well save for the nonsense from HW's H, Tanne's P and Dior's H! Anyone for an arse-kicking??

Nothing much to say from my end save for an explanation as to my silence I s'pose - things were really hard for a while after DS was born. I guess I found it hard adjusting to the difference between parenting one and two and my rship with DH was a bit up and down, depending on my mood! things seem to be evening out a little now - thanks to TFM's nagging persistence, I've seen the GP and discovered that I am suffering from adjustment disorder (allegedly!). Not sure what it means - I'm too frightened to google! I don't quite see the light at the end of the tunnel yet, but watch this space...

I do however have some advice for Baffy fwiw - I too had the amazing non-sleeping second baby who also ended up in bed with me and was a world-class headbutter! When it got to the point that I was going to do someone bodily harm if I didn't get at least one hour's uninterrupted sleep, I took it upon myself to sleep-train him. I didn't really use a specific technique. He was about six months old iirc. He was still ebf at the time and I found he was doing exactly as your DS2 Baffy - waking for nothing, sometimes just to play. Although I admit it was cute, it would drive me mad when I put him in bed and he batted my face or played with me for half the night and then fell asleep with his feet on my head!

My routine went a little like this - I put him down semi-awake in his cot after his last bf and then sat next to the cot whilst he settled. At first he got up and down a lot but I just kept laying him back down. It was awful at first - lots of screaming and back-arching. Poor DD really suffered being in the next room (DH slept downstairs!). He did eventually go down though - I had to be really really strong and not pick him up, even if he was screaming his head off.

It felt cruel at first but it's amazing how quickly they learn that this is it now, they have to go to sleep. I didn't feel so bad because I wasn't leaving him to cry. I was there comforting him but just not picking him up. I figured that it was more important in the long-term that he had a good night's sleep than cuddles with Mummy all night. During the night, if he cried I'd have to get up and pat him back to sleep - if he got up, I'd simply put him back down and repeat ad nauseum. It graduated to the point where I would stick my hand through the cot bars and stroke his hand to get him back to sleep.

It took about a month for it to work and we had a lot of hiccups we had to work through, especially when I stopped bf at 14 months. I must admit that I do sometimes give in and take him into bed with me but I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've done that in, say, the last three months. Another important thing is to do the same for day-time naps as you do for night-time - does he nap in his cot in the day? You might want to try with a day-time nap and work from there. I also found it reassuring to really fill him up before bedtime so that I was sure he wasn't waking up because he was hungry. Is he having a bottle before bed still? I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that DS still is and I give him 9 ounces to make sure that it sees him through the night.

Other things you can try would be to try to treat the colic. I've recently moved DS onto goat's milk because I found cow's milk/formula was making him really bunged up and uncomfortable, especially at night - he'd cough a lot. He doesn't do it at all now. You could also try colief - I didn't for DS but it was a god-send for DD. It's quite expensive and it's a small bottle but I think you put a few drops in the bottle and it breaks down the lactose. Do you have a routine in place for bedtime? I find that if I don't give DS a bath right before bed, he wakes up a lot in the night - weird! I also rub him down with a combination of cream and cal-rub and give his tummy a little massage to get rid of excess wind - he loves that!

Right - that's enough wittering ! I've bored the pants off myself and am going to bed now!

Hi lovely ladies, still here, checking up on you, just wanted to say am so pleased that all of you are doing so well!! TFM is all I can say, am so glad for you!
Cash lovely post, Baffy if I am honest am pleased you have finally said enough!
Sorry no time just now, promise to come back and catch up properley !

Hi Baffy
I too had a none sleeper for a while.
The trouble with bringing them into bed is that you are then gaurnteed a disturbed night. All babies and children wriggle around alot during the night anyway and so what you think is him being wakeful may just be his sleep pattern.

I used the control cry method - where you visit after a set amount of time and gradually increase it - for DD it honestly only took about 2 nights to work. But they are hard nights and it is best to have someone with you to help you get through and not go in during the cry.

Whatever method there is heartache - it is so hard to force them to settle.

What about some lavender oil on the bedding? Some sothing music that you can easily play to help settle him - my DS liked that - those few seconds where he listened to the sounds were enough for him to know that was the cue for settling down and sleeping.

They make it sound so simple in the books and on TV - bloody supernanny .
Anyway good luck with it - the time flies by and you will soon be dragging him out of bed (honestly you will)!

Yesterday my DS passed his driving test - I still cant believe i was holding him in my arms only a short while ago and now he is a man.
Is is very good and has offered to help out with running the others around if they need it .

Hi to everyone lets hope the sun shines for the weekend.

HW - congrats to your ds passing his test That will be a great help to you.

Cash - well done on the sleep training I tried controlled crying with ds but didn't have much success with it. He used to get nightmares and night terrors a lot and with the benefit of hindsight I think maybe we should have actually co-slept for longer because he hated sleeping alone. Whenever he shared a room with someone else (e.g us or family members) he always slept better. He is also scared of the dark and has to have his bedroom door open and landing light on - yet I always used to close it when he was a baby cos I heard babies aren't scared of the dark. Maybe this one was! dd doesn't mind the dark and we keep her bedroom door closed otherwise the light/noise wakes her. Sorry to hear things have been difficult for you, but glad they are improving now. Adjustment disorder is a diagnosis used frequently by gps (macdoodle might agree)but basically just means that you've struggled to cope with a major stressful life event (such as childbirth - but can be anything). What did the doctor suggest? We see it commonly in my line of work and counselling/support is usually helpful. A lot of people I know have struggled to adjust to having two dc. Are yours close in age? Mine are 5 years apart so it's been a lot easier than having two pre-school dc but I suspect I may have adjustment issues when I return to work in a few months time!

Baffy - how old is ds2 now? Can h help you out at the weekend so you can get some sleep?

Oh Cash, wish I'd had you and MN when DD was little. exH and I tried the timed crying thing once, and cracked after half an hour! She co-slept with us until ExH gave up and slept on the sofa- end of THAT part of our marriage (tho he didn't seem to mind, hence eventual end of marriage). DD still sleeps badly - and she's now 18. Bought her a memoryfoam topper last week to see if that helps. Asked her if it was all the stuff with DP that kept her restless and she said no, she's ALWAYS slept badly. (except even now, if we have to share a bed, she seems to sleep well). Not sure what I'm saying here - insecure child sleeps better with Mum? Main thing is, if DS and you sleep better together, then maybe carry on co-sleeping for a few months -at least it gives you some rest! At least you don't have an H to protest...

All well here, went shopping with DD for stuff for her first trip to Glasto, and had a girls' night here this evening, DP banishing himself to the spare room without protest. Thanks to me, our old PTA group have revived - even tho the talk is about how hard it is to face the slide into middle age - when we met, we were luscious 30-somethings. Oh well, tempus fugit

HW congrats to DS on driving. At last, your chance to have your own taxi service!

Congratulations to HW's DS, on both the driving test and the rite of passage it represents. None of mine have done that yet and DS2 says he never will. I can get all proud about his environmental friendliness I guess!

Interesting about the light thing, LL. It may be true that babies aren't scared of the dark in the same way that older children are, that is they don't know about monsters and things so why should they be? It's also true that some babies settle better when it's dark and quiet, again logical enough. BUT if you have a lively inquisitive child who isn't ready to go to sleep, it's no wonder they're unhappy at not being able to see anything. Sensory deprivation is a form of torture y'know!

Following the divorce when DS4 (he of the all-night videos) was with each parent a week at a time, he used to want to sleep in my bed, and we had to negotiate so he was gradually spending more time in his own, though he still liked the door open and hall light on. He was 11 at the time! Once he moved in here full time though, he became much happier about being on his own and has no problem at all about the dark. Clearly a security thing. (He admitted he never shared a bed round his dad's, nor wanted to; but then, sleeping with XH would be enough to give anyone night terrors.)

Following many years of consideration, and having brought up one little bro and 4 DCs, I have come to the profound conclusion that the thing to do is to read all the books, watch all the programmes, listen to as many experts, health professionals and other parents as possible, and then chuck most of it out because every child is different and you just have to try what works for each one.

lol annie - esp your last paragraph. Completely agree ds was a very inquisitive and active baby (my mum described him as imperious)and fought sleep. I didn't think of the sensory deprivation angle but you may well have a point there I'm not surprised that your ds didn't want to share a bed with your ex - after the description you've given, I doubt anyone would

Am dreading the budget next week. I know there will be cuts in spending but I'm dreading what will happen to NHS pensions. It's the only perk/retainer in my line of work.

Am loving all the tips thanks so much guys.

Cash and macd brilliant to see you
Cash what a great post, I think I will try what you said. I think I've been putting it off as I just don't have the strength to deal with it on top of everything else right now.

H is having the boys one or two nights a week which is giving me that break. I think I realise though that once I start something, I need to see it through, no matter what. No matter how many times he wakes up etc. I think it'd be cruel if I didn't see it through as it would just confuse him. At the moment he thinks cry, throw everything out, get in mummy's bed. So I need to teach him where his own bed is again and not give in.

I will definitely do it when I'm feeling strong enough to see it through

Cash you post really made me laugh too, about ending up with their feet on your head. It's so true.

HW I think you are right too, his restlessness may well just be his sleep pattern as he is a particularly wriggly little thing. Always ended up upside down in his cot from about 6 months old.

Funny thing was, I co-slept with ds1 due to the circumstances back then and I loved every minute of it. He was such a good sleeper and so cuddly and gorgeous. Then when he was about 3 we both decided we wanted our own space and we decorated his room and he got in his own bed!
If only it was that easy this time...
I'm like you cash, I do admit that he is so cute and gorgeous and sometimes I can't help but smile even when it is 4am and he's trying to play! But I just know we can't go on like this. I'm truly exhausted.

Cash are you ok?

Macd how's things with you?

Thanks again everyone, really really appreciate the advice.

OUR RABBIT IS HOME!

Everything was practically thrown into the garden and then he and his miserable twatting face left! But the rabbit is home and that is all that matters.

I do wish he could be reasonable though. I know it's unreasonable of me to expect him to be reasonable but I can't help wishing he was.

Hope everyone else is having a good weekend

Yay Bet your dd is over the moon You can't help having those expectations of xp. My parents separated when I was 10 (28 years ago!)and my mum still hasn't accepted my dad's shortcomings (not that I have either come to think of it)

Right, must go and blow up some balloons. Got I hate kids parties!

Great news TFM!

p.s. I started the sleep training with ds2 last night! I just snapped as he wouldn't even let me walk out the room without screaming so I decided enough was enough!

I think I cried more than him tbh!

I put him in his cot, and I decided that I couldn't do the controlled crying thing because it was just breaking my heart. So I followed cash's advice and just stayed close to him, but from the second I put him in his cot I didn't take him back out once. I just kept lying him back down and repeating ad-nauseum, "it's ok, you're only going to sleep".

We did have some major hysterics. Remembering some of the things HW said, I sang to him a little bit which really calmed the screaming down. Then as he calmed, I gradually moved away from the cot, until he calmed himself enough to just snuggle down and give in

That took 2 hours.

I felt much more comfortable with doing it like that though, as I wanted him to know I was still there and still love him! I just want to teach him that he has to stay in his own bed!
I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. But I feel it's the best way I can do it.

He woke 3 times in the night, 2am, 3am and 4am! First time I had to do the same thing again, lie him down, reassure him etc. That took half an hour. Then the other 2 times I literally just lay him straight back down and put his dummy in and he went back off.

Then he slept from 4am until 7am. All in his cot.

Now that might sound like hell to you. But it was absolute bliss for me. A major breakthrough for him to do the whole night in his cot and I was so so proud of myself for not giving in. Especially at 2am when he really started again!

I'm not going to give up though now. I think I cried because I knew he was only that sad because he was so confused as to why he suddenly couldn't be in with me. So I'm going to stick to it and hope for the best! Wish me luck!! Thanks so much again for all of the advice.

TFM that's FANTASTIC! I have been worried about your rabbit ever since you said she was on the dandelion diet and got no exercise. Did she recognise you? Hope she'll be as happy in her new home as you and DD

Cash, you made me LOL too! Quite right, we all need to follow our own instincts!

Well guess what, after I spent a miserable weekend feeling really low (horrible cloudy weather didn't help), I got quite tearful yesterday morning - the perfect time, as DP was sober! (No good being miserable at night, when he's drunk and in his own bubble of misery). It gave DP something to think about all day (most of which I spent in bed). I told him that I felt that I needed to see our doctor for myself, but that I needed him to come too, as our situation is only getting worse, and we are BOTH ill now. At first, he agreed that I should see the GP for myself, but as usual, said he wouldn't come with. But in the evening, when I was still obviously out of it, he took my hand and said that if I wanted to make an appointment, he would come too, as he hated seeing me so sad, so he's willing to approach this together.

Well, it's not quite the way I wanted it (I would have preferred it if he went just for himself) but at least I will get him into our doctor's presence. It's a start!

Now, just have to wait till Wednesday, which is when the July schedule is set up, as they haven't any appointments till then! Just have to keep on being miserable until we get to our appointment so that DP doesn't go off the boil...

That's a fantastic start Baffy! Small steps, be consistent, and it looks like it will work.