FAB & GLAM 10 - Gosh, Do We Really Talk That Much???

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Hi, new thread

Lovely to see all the old posters again. Don't go now you are back.

Annie/UC/MHIS - lovely to see you and thanks MHIS for the FB chat.

All I will add is that self-destructive behaviour is not just self-destructive. If he wants to have a relationship with you, he needs to acknowledge that his moods will affect you as well.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't see him till bedtime, as I was out at my AlAnon meeting (which left me feeling very empowered ) When we went to bed, he said he loved me and was sorry that he behaves badly. I take that as an opening to have a talk about this tonight - BEFORE he's downed his first bottle. I will ask him what he intends to do to STOP behaving badly, that if he does love me as he claims, he must be willing to address his problems for my sake as much as his own. And it doesn't just affect me, it affects DD and saddens both our families.

And I will have to tell him that, if he won't make an effort, then whether he 'loves' me or not, is irrelevant - it's not the kind of love I want and our relationship is doomed.

I am quite determined that I WILL say this. I've been working up to it for long enough! Wish me strength, girls! (wobbly )

Ooh lots of strength wished for you Tanee. What you said is exactly what you should say - don't change it, tis perfect as it is.
What kind of limits are you going to set with him? For instance, if he nods and agrees at all the right points in the convo but still acts like an arse tomorrow/next week etc. are you going to accept that? What kind of changes do you want to see straight away?

sending you strength too tanee.

I think he will almost 'welcome' your talk - it will give him the 'proof' that he does not deserve happiness.

I can get into self destruct mode too easily and i can sometimes feel as if i am pushing h away and so when he does not respond i feel justified in my way of thinking.

I too had a chat with h - he still hasnt seen gp - but he does feel better in himself mentally. Physically he is not so well and i do think he is avoiding the gp for that reason - but like you said tfm i may be trying to convince myself of that.
I feel better because of the chat - i think he avoids a lot of talk for fear of upsetting me and i have a need to feel 'close' to h and he seems to just clam up - so i fear the worst and so the circle continues.....

Annie - i think you should write a book - and as for weight and size i am in your size range too - well almost and if i dont start doing some exercise soon will not be able to fit any of my clothes.

Have a good weekend and lovely to hear from you baffy - you sound so much more together and you can now go forward with your life without carrying that weight known as your h around with you.

Oh Tanee, how awful, I think Annie and LL hit the nail on the head perfectly.
How frustrating for you
You seem to be coping well with it all though. I don't know where you find the strength, I think I would be utterly exhausted with it all now if I were you!

HW I hope you're ok. I do hope he goes to the GP, it sounds like he really needs to. Totally agree with you though when you said it's up to HIM to sort out.

We are going through some bad stuff at home, my step dad tried to kill himself and it has subsequently come out that he is in thousands of pounds worth of debt due to gambling. Me and my sister have taken on a fair chunk of it to stop any imminent procedings against my mum, and the man is in total denial. Convinced it'll all be ok and he'll be able to pay of £50-60k worth of debt in the next few months!

Anyway, he's been very ill this week, in and out of hospital. We'd been helping him with various things as I guess it's all still a bit surreal and my sister was feeling very sorry for him (threats against his life from the loan sharks he's got involved with!!).
Anyway, my mum's counsellor said we are absolutely NOT to help him. We are enabling the behaviour and he will never change if we do.

On Friday, we'd all had enough. He rang again for some stuff and then had a massive paddy when we were all genuinely too busy to help him. He 'couldn't cope', couldn't get out of hospital without us etc etc. We had no choice but to leave him to it. And miraculously he had organised a new way of earning some genuine income and got himself out of hospital, home (to his mum's where he's staying) and then working without a scrap of help from us.
Big lesson learnt for me there!

I am going to try and apply it more. And it might help you guys too

MHIS thank you -
I'm so glad things are going well for you. Such great news, you deserve it so much x

Morning Ladies

Baffy!! What can I say? I would say that I totally agree with your mums counsellor. I would also like to say that I hope, one day soon, you are able to enjoy a lovely, peaceful life with your boy's, free of problems. I am thinking of you xx

Tanee, have you had the talk yet?

I'm feeling a bit.... well, I don't really know how I am feeling to be honest. I'm trying very hard not to be affected by he who shall not be mentioned but it's difficult.

My solicitor has sorted out the contact arrangement, it was his weekend this weekend. However, when he returned DD last night he asked if she could stay over at his mother's on Friday coming as his aunt is over from Canada. I gently reminded him that contact with his family is supposed to be in his time and added that I had planned to take DD to town on Saturday for a new coat. I felt very uncomfortable just saying "no". He immediately jumped in with "forget it, it doesn't matter, I will tell her she can't go" so, ignoring his mini tantrum I turned to DD and asked her what she would like to do and she replied she would like to go as his aunt is fun. Sorted then, I agreed she could go but did ask that she be back by lunchtime on the Saturday so we could still go to town. But he still didn't appear happy. I think he would have liked me to say 'no' so that he could claim victim status.

Then, as it's Father's Day on Sunday I sent him a text offering him contact with DD if he would like it. A reply came, yes he would like contact and what time could he pick her up. I offered 11.30am pick up with drop off at 2pm. I thought this fair, it is my weekend afterall and it is far more than my solicitor thought I should offer him which is nothing. He replied "will drop DD off at 12 on Saturday. Won't bother with Sunday but thanks for offer". So, he doesn't want to see his DD on Fathers day and I can only presume it's because he isn't happy with the time I offered.

I know it's not my problem, that it's his loss, that he is just the nastiest, most horrible person I have ever met in my life but even he is surpassing himself. He is even more nasty and horrible than even I had him down as. I can't believe he has refused contact with his daughter.

I can see where my solicitor is coming from now. I can see why he wants me to put strict contact in place and set some boundaries, although I do find it difficult asserting it. It's all new to me, I am in new territory now and it is taking some getting used to. I suppose I should really have said an outright "no" to the Friday night stay at his mother's shouldn't I? The ink isn't even dry on the contact agreement and he is already pushing the boundaries.

I think I'm finding it difficult because I didn't really want any of this. I wanted us to be able to maintain a good 'working relationship' for the sake of DD, I really did. I didn't want her to have to go through all of this restricted contact business, shared Christmases, birthdays etc. I would have liked us to still work together as parents. I feel this is what he has wanted all along, I think he has forced my hand deliberately, I don't think he could do the decent thing and work alongside me. He seems to be enjoying the misery of it iyswim. It's a shame. And it saddens me.

You know what the cheeky sod proposed for Christmas?? He wanted to pick her up at 12 noon on Christmas Day and return her on New Years Day having had her for a week, EVERY YEAR! His solicitor actually allowed him to propose that!! He actually expected me to agree that he could have DD to himself every single year! I suppose that shows what kind of man I am up against.

Sorry for the epic but thanks for letting me waffle on. I think I may be asking for a bit of a pep talk

Hope everyone else is ok and that you have had a good weekend xxx

TFM so he wants christmas every year with dd but not on fathers day I suspect the former is to spite you. What a horrible man indeed. I admire your attempts to be reasonable and civil with this odious man but he is unlikely to reciprocate. Still, you are doing well not to stoop to his level and your dd will benefit from your calm and poise

ds is 6 on fathers day. 6 years ago I gave his dad the best ever fathers day present We're having a party for ds in the garden (fingers crossed for weather)and have hired a bouncy castle so dh can have some fun as well cos it's suitable for adults too dh has also requested jelly. Think I've got 3 dc sometimes

Who's watching the footie? I like world cup football.

baffy - so sorry to hear about your step dad As if you need that! Was he gambling in secret? There was a feature on Jeremy Kyle (just changing channel and saw it - honest guv )a couple of weeks ago and I think the irony of the programme being sponsored by Foxy Bingo completely eluded JK I have a real problem with those online bingo sites and defo don't think they should be advertising on tv or sponsoring programmes. They prey on people (stay at home parents/unemployed)who are often on low incomes.

Thank you LL and everything you say is right. I just don't know how to stop trying to be reasonable with an unreasonable man or get used to a man being so unreasonable! He is on a completely different planet to me, a completely different length wave. It's going to be interesting to see what he has to say in court on Wednesday when we return for round two. I've been thinking that I may face him this time, show him I am not afraid or intimidated by him. I think he may be relying on me being afraid of him, I think that is what gives him his power. Well I may just take that away from him on Wednesday and look him right in the eye as he spills out his drivel of lies!

Your planned party sounds fab! I hope the weather is good for you, we have rain here today and it's freezing! And no, I don't like the football, World Cup or not! I'm glad I have decorating to do!

Talking of decorating, I fell off my ladder on Saturday. I could feel myself going and tried to save myself but ended up falling hard on my bottom! Ooh it is sore! I can hardly sit down!

That will be good for you as well - if you feel able to face him. Exorcise some demons Ouch - hope your bottom recovers soon! I've had some spectacular bruises on mine from falling over.

oh well, guess what. Bloomin football match meant no talk. He came home and went straight off to watch the opening stuff. I retreated to watch the Forsyte Saga on DVD upstairs and remember the days when I used to identify with Irene (not that my ex was quite such a monster as Soames). And Saturday, we were ships that pass, as he came home just as I was going out to see Carmen with my sister.

And yesterday - just couldn't be arsed and he was being so nice that I felt bad about spoiling the mood. Yes, I am a coward, but it's just so hard to catch him on workdays before that first glass. I do think, though, that he might - just MIGHT - welcome a talk, if I introduce it as me being sad that we don't share our feelings any more, as we used to, and that I would like to regain that openness and intimacy again - if not, what's the point of staying together?

Baffy - that's awful about your stepfather - but it sounds as if you did exactly the right thing - albeit inadvertantly - by leaving him to sort himself out. That's a HUGE debt - but he has to face it, not expect his wife and her children to sort it for him.

TFM for you. He really is taking the p*. I think you did the right thing in asking DD if she wanted to see her aunt, and in agreeing that she could. She's old enough, I think, to have a say in that. However, after that, it was up to him - you offered him Father's Day, he refused, just to spite you. The only one who loses, is him. And at his idea for Christmas/New Year. He really is a piece! You are so well rid! Will DD be bringing the rabbit home on Saturday? She should make sure she does!

at you and that talk Tanee!! I have visions of you at his funeral FINALLY getting to say your piece!! At least he won't be able to disappear or go off on a sulk!!

As for the rabbit, no sign of her yet. DD rang me on Saturday to tell me he had changed his mind and we couldn't have her but he would buy us one. I declined that offer as saw it as yet more attempts to control, we would like to choose our own rabbit thank you very much! Anyway, DD told me not to worry, that she hadn't given up yet and that she would make sure we got her back. The latest is that we can have her back but when it isn't raining

have I told you what he has being doing with my post? He told me he was happy to pass any post that arrived onto me, that I needn't go to the expense of redirection. He hasn't sent any for a couple of weeks so I text him about it. He replied that he has been returning my post to sender. It's no big problem really as I have changed my address with most people but I have been waiting for one particular item, which he has sent back! So today I have been and paid for 3 months of redirection so that no post of mine, junk or otherwise lands on his mat. I am going to gain great satisfaction from depriving him of the pleasure of returning my mail!

Yes LL, that's what I thought, exorcise the demon! I think it will completely throw him having me in the same room. And as you say, I think it will do me good.

I am getting better slowly but surely but a small part of me still has this need for him to like me, to approve of me and to see what a nice person I am. Thankfully, that is only a very small part of me these days!

Oh wow TFM how awful for you. What a nasty piece of work.

Now - I know that you want to do what's best for dd, and you so desperately wanted to be good (amicable) parents for her sake, but he is clearly showing that that means nothing to him.

FWIW, I do think you did the right thing in asking what dd wants to do about Friday, (I would have done the same), but on the other hand, I think your solicitor is right. And has probably seen it a million times before.

I really don't think dd, or her happiness, matters to him. He doesn't even want to spend father's day with her. It's all about control and one-upmanship. So stay strong and don't let him! You have agreed contact times for a reason. And that's also in dd's best interests so she knows where she stands.
Lets face it, I wouldn't put it past him letting her down on Friday just to hurt you
So stick to your guns and follow your solicitors advice. You're doing amazingly well. And lets face it, he knows bloody well what an amazing person you are. That's how he's got away with treating you so badly for so long. Time to show him the other side to TFM! The one that will not stand for one more day of his *£$%!!
Ok lecture over

I'm having similar issues myself. Ds has had a few bad episodes where he has wanted to do things with me and H, either as were originally planned, or because we've gone to places that we all usually go to as a family. Since h left I haven't done one thing as a family with him. Despite ds's tears breaking my heart I've felt so strongly this time that a clear boundary has to be in place. For both of our sakes! And it's blummin hard. The short term easy option would be to give in. Especially as H still wants to do things together too!?! But I really believe it's for the best. I lived in limbo for 2 years. Never again! Never, ever again.

And thanks for all the good wishes. LL yes it was totally in secret. Absolutely horrifying to think what he has done without us knowing. Sadly, I feel that I have taken it in my stride fairly easily. Almost as though I now feel that after what H did, the furthest person in the world (or so I thought!) from ever hurting anyone, nothing surprises me anymore.
Sad that it's come to that really.

TFM - I can feel you giving me a sound smacking! But hey, it's hard when he's 'up' as I know it'll pull him down...and when he's down, there's just no talking to him anyway. I should just bite the bullet, I'm just pathetic, I know, I know... (walks off into a corner, hanging head in shame...)

So now he wants to buy you a bunny! lol - ANYTHING to maintain control - even to using poor little Bunny! I expect he's still feeding her dandelions? I think Baffy has a point - be prepared for him letting DD down on Friday (especially after you've faced him out in court) and then claiming to her that it's Mummy's fault she can't see her aunty. Only I'll bet DD will see through that one! She's sharp, your little one!

Good luck with the court - I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall (actually, I'm sure all the teabags would love to be there, buzzing around his head like those annoying horns at the football).

And speaking of football, as if I didn't already find it dull, THOSE HORNS!!!!!!! or are they hornets? A great excuse for me to watch more of the Forsyte Saga tonight!

Thank you Baffy, and you are absolutely right, I know you are. I need to stop letting my heart rule my head! As for letting DD down on Friday, well, I am one step ahead of him on that score. He bought her a mobile phone at the weekend so that he can contact her direct (switched off of course until the arranged contact time!) so I showed her how to text his auntie to let her know that mummy said it was ok. Now said auntie is staying with his mother and he won't want to let his mother down or show himself up for what he really is so by texting I have made it impossible for him to let DD down! It's just all very exhausting and I want it all to be over so we can get on and enjoy our new life. I just wonder what he is going to come up with next!

I admire you Baffy for sticking to your guns. It's so very easy to give in isn't it when you have those little pleading eyes looking at you? But you know DD is wonderful and although I have said nothing derogatory about her father she seems to really understand that I can't spend time around him. She keeps him at arms length from me bless her, she truly is a little star!

Tanee you get no smacking from me lovely, I understand how difficult all this is for you BUT, I will say that it's all well and good not wanting to upset the apple cart when he is in a good mood but he isn't approachable when things are bad so there is never going to be a right time to talk to him! But you are not pathetic. You just haven't reached the end of the line yet, but you will, mark my words young lady, you will

Thank you for your lovely words re DD. She really is a 'sharp little one'. She is wonderful and seeing her blossom is wonderful. I have never heard her laugh so much in her short life as what she does now and she has settled into her new school without and problems whatsoever. And you know what, her father has totally refused to talk about it with her. What a man eh? I'm glad he doesn't want to see her on fathers Day because he doesn't deserve her. I will make it a mother and daughter day and he can get stuffed!

And yes, you are right about the rabbit, it is about control, the same with my post. Everything is about control with him, everything.

Tanee I agree with TFM - that talk will happen when you are ready so don't beat yourself up.........and maybe use this time to prepare so that it is perfectly executed

TFM how old is your dd? She sounds absolutely delightful and a real credit to you (defo not her father) Amazing how perceptive kids can be. How pathetic your x is to mess about with your post. Slowly but surely you are removing everything he can control - I bet he is feeling very insecure right now. I picture him as an Archie Mitchell type figure (Eastenders) plotting away. What a sad specimen of a man. I do understand why you want him to like you and it is because you are a decent person but it is that decency that he constantly tries to exploit. He wouldn't be interested in someone like him - he gets his kicks out of destroying decent/nice people.

Thank you LL DD is 7yrs old, she will be 8 in August. She is very astute though. I think she has her father sussed and that is without me having ever said a word, she has worked it all out for herself. I am very proud of her, I am sure that she won't end up in an abusive relationship because she refuses to let her father get away with anything!

And yes, you are right, I am taking away every bit of his control. I have taken another step towards doing that this morning. He finally agreed to pay me maintenance. He insisted on paying by cheque though so that "has proof that I have paid and you cannot take me to the CSA further down the line and claim that I haven't" . He did however, in an email I copied my solicitor into, state he would pay me by standing order on the 1st of each month. On Friday he handed me a cheque back dated to the 1st! Which meant a trip into town for me to pay it into the bank and another few days before it is processed, therefore before I actually get my hands on the money it will be almost three weeks late! So I have taken delight in informing my solicitor of his latest ploy to control me and asked that we receive confirmation from him that future monies will be received on time and by standing order as agreed. He will not like it

That's it then. Apart from the rabbit I can't see any other area in which he can control me, all other areas have been covered by the solicitor but, in true Archie Mitchell style I am sure he will find something. Now, where did I put that bust of Queen Victoria.............

Can imagine how exhausting it is. Sounds as though you have faith in your solicitor though, so that's good lol re the Vic bust - he ain't worth it

Your dd sounds wise way beyond her years

If he pays by standing order surely he would still have proof that he's paid, so it's total BS really.

Poor rabbit, held under duress. I hope he doesn't boil it

Can you report him to RSPCA for feeding it dandelions?

Exactly my argument Annie. He would have all the proof he needed. He is just being his usual nasty self.

As for the rabbit, I', sure he wouldn't boil her as he rarely goes near her. That's what is upsetting me at the moment. It's lovely weather and she could be out in her run, enjoying the garden but because he is at work every day she will be stuck in her cage. Not what she has been used to

Did you ever watch The Barretts of Wimpole Street? Charles Laughton (bless!) chewing the scenery as Elizabeth Barrett's evil father, who rules the household with a rod of iron and keeps her believing she's an invalid. Eventually she meets and runs off with the poet Browning (true story y'know), so her father's reaction is to say he will have her little spaniel put down. Fortunately (in the movie at least, I hope also in RL) she took the dog with her, so his evil plans were thwarted and he was outed as a pathetic bastard in front of all his sons. Cue pricked balloon impersonation.

Does it help to imagine Charles Laughton playing the part of your ex in a biopic?

Charles Laughton

PMSL! I am going to think of this when I am in Court tomorrow!! Brilliant Annie thank you!! Hey, he isn't that dissimilar looking either

There's another coincidence too, when I became ill in 2005 (with suspected MS) I was determined to get well again but he was equally as determined that I would remain ill. He priced up mobility scooters, walking aids, looked into getting the house adapted. He loved every minute of my being ill and was furious when I refused to claim any disability benefits. He showed me no compassion, no love and didn't help me to get around so I know he wasn't doing any of the above out of love, it was pure control, he thought he had me right where he wanted me. Scary!