FAB & GLAM 10 - Gosh, Do We Really Talk That Much???

[Dumbledior]

Hi, new thread

Lovely to see all the old posters again. Don't go now you are back.

Annie/UC/MHIS - lovely to see you and thanks MHIS for the FB chat.

lovely post TFM
So much of it rings true - the not wanting everything to go back to pre or post affair.

Baffy you may well have felt like this anyway - but you would have had a solid background to fall back on. He DID destroy that and really the only way to go forward is to start building those foundations again and it is a slow process. Today h had a meeting in an area where ow lives - he could tell i was worried by it and so made every effort to contact me lots. Its not because i really worry anymore but just that those feelings come up again and he sees that and so does all he can. I hate the fact that i want to check up but equally h accepts it and does not make me feel bad. I do still check (hate myself ) but also accept this is how will be from now on.

I am still shocked at his unwillingness to even try to explore why it happened.
Its a bit like a car - if it fails because something is wrong you try to find out why not just expect it to run smoothy because it did in the past .
I just dont get it - its almost as if he is saying I dont know and frankly I dont care.
You have been so willing and patient with him - and I suspect that if he were to start to explore this with you would wait for him - however time is marching and you are clearly not happy.

Forget about whether he is happy and think about how happy you are - and what you can do to do this. Hard as it is dont rely on getting anything from him.

Some time apart may make him see you are what he wants - if it does not - well you will have done the right thing anyway.

Take care
thinking of you

One more tiny little thing!

It can be very damaging to write the story yourself, to allow what you think a person is thinking to become real in your own mind. The best thing to do is forget all the thinking and start talking, ask direct questions and get all your answers straight from the horses mouth!!

Excellent post TFM And you said what I meant (only more eloquently) re spelling it out to h

It is concerning that he doesn't want to get to the bottom of why he had an affair. Actually I can understand why he doesn't want to but he should need to - for the sake of your future together and also to enhance self-knowledge. I suppose that also comes down to a reticence to take responsibility.

Thank you LL!! It's good to know I haven't lost it!

Bought any nice shoes lately? I trust the bunions haven't made an unwelcome return?

I'm not so sure about that really LL. I think baffy and H have moved on now from him having the affair, their lives have at least including that they have a new addition to their family I think the time for questioning 'why' has passed and I'm not sure anything positive can be achieved by continuing to do a postmortem on it. The time comes when a person just has to let go, let go of the anger and the constant need to remember what happened, the need to go over it time and time again. It just isn't healthy and it can be emotionally exhausting. It also causes a person to become stuck in the past and blame any little thing that happens on the affair.

I'm not saying anyone has to actually forgive an affair, if a person does not want to forgive then so be it, that is absolutely fine and totally acceptable but, for the sake of a persons emotional health they have to make a positive effort to move on and not let the past spoil what could be a wonderful future.

BUT, I could be wrong, it has been known!

Oh you should SEE the feet!! Just gorgeous they are! I'm looking forward to flashing them in the summer!!

Bring on the feet flashing
I meant that h should need to know - not for them to explore it together. I just feel quite uneasy about what unresolved issues he continues to let seep into their relationship now iyswim.

Hi HW! I'm sorry, I missed your post!

I must say though I am not surprised that he doesn't want to revisit the affair. He may well feel ashamed of himself, embarrassed and a total arse!! I don't think every relationship will benefit from rehashing the affair,especially if one partner is reluctant to do so. It can be very self defeating and it could end up that it isn't the affair that destroys the relationship but the refusal to move on from it.

And you young lady! YOU should feel secure and confident and relax safe in the knowledge that your husband loves you and not feel the need to check up on him. You are worthy of his love, you have his love, he loves you!! I think you should make a HUGE effort to let go, to move on from what he did, resist the urge to check up on him. It will become easier and easier to do so and you will feel so liberated for doing it. Easier said than done I know but well worth it Don't let OW control your future! Don't let her have any part of it!

Hey all sorry to post and run last week , am just out of hospital
Had sore throat last weekend which turned into quinsy and being rushed into hospital, was agony but home now and recovering.
Off to catch up , looks like you have all been busy!!

Yes, iswym. You know, I'm sure he does know why he did it but no amount of talking or cajoling, threatening or emotional blackmail will make him tell or open up about it if he doesn't want to. And baffy may never get the real truth anyway. I just think she needs abreak from it all, time to just enjoy being herself, no thinking! A brain holiday!

Sometimes, I think a person can get lost in all the trying, the fight, the rebuilding, all the effort it takes to rebuild the relationship. When 'normality' slips in, when all the drama is over and things have settled down, thats when the reality of it hits and a person starts questioning whether or not they made the right decision and if it wouldn't have been easier just to walk away. I reckon life after the affair is the hardest part, thats when the real hard work begins.

Hi lily

Gosh, you don't do things by halves do you! I hope you are feeling better now. Did you manage to have a nice rest while you were in hospital? I hope you are milking it for all it's worth now you are home

Poor you LL Rest up and enjoy the TLC
TFM - yes agree. Life post affair can be very wearing.

Ok caught up
Baffy sorry to hear that things are tough again but reading your posts it is very clear that it is about 'you'.
I hope that you find a way forward from this , with or without h. I do think all those things you are 'wanting' are neither unreasonable or very similair issues for lot's of women ragardless of past relationship history.
I agree with TFM though , spelling it out to him is the way forward.

TFM i am so prud of you and your dd. The ladies are very lucky to have such a lovely , wise lady as you , you will get some real friends for life there i am sure

Well things here have been very tough recently. Surprisingly not with h ! He has been a rock!
Lot's of family issues. Culminating in my sis having to move house yesterday , being her due date for her 3rd baby also !
I am now suppose to be birthing partner for her (quick and surprising split with her dc's dad). She had been living here whilst she got herself sorted.
I think supporting her culminated in my hospital stay!
But she now in new house , baby staying put for now , she and her dc's are happy and safe and i am home trying to recover....

Everyone else ok then ?

prud 'proud'!

x post , TFM no such luck. DP went back to work day i came home but hoping to get my feet up this weekend.
I need to recover as not only my sis baby to think about but also of to OZ at the end of the month for sil wedding!!

Thanks LL , are things tough for you now ? Or is that just the daily grind ?

Hi Lilyloo, hope you are feeling better? Glad to hear your sis is ok too. Sounds like she's been through a traumatic time. Hope all goes well with dc3.

Baffy, how are you? Lots of good analysis as always, from TFM, HW & Annie. It seems that you now need some TFM yourself - you need to be wooed. Hard as it might be, you need to talk to DH - and keep talking until it penetrates. Explore all the options. Maybe if you suggest separating, it might just shock him into realising what he risks losing a second time - and how unlikely he is to get a third chance.

Well, all a bit strange here tonight. DP did get to his interview, but he was hungover and still a bit on edge, so he said he waffled through. He was a bit cross with himself as the interview was very straightforward, based on the questions in the application, so if he'd just kept calm and memorised what he wrote, he'd have been fine. I do rather hope, though, that he doesn't get the job, as he'll then feel bad that he's being promoted over the heads of some of his more experienced colleagues. You see, you cannot win with this man!

Tonight he's gone off by himself to watch TV in the spare room, leaving me on my own downstairs. Seems to be a reaction to DD having been here earlier tonight, prior to going to a party, and knowing she'll be coming back to sleep here. I really hope we don't have any door slamming from him when she gets back, or I'll feel he has made no progress, even though on my birthday he was saying how sorry he was about how he treated DD, and the damage he's caused. I approached him a couple of times, saying he could come join me in the front room, but he obviously wants to be alone, so I am leaving him to it. At least it gives me a chance to catch up with all of you.

Good news is, DD has been offered a place at Camberwell to do Foundation Art, which is just what she wanted. Bad news is, she probably won't get a grant or loan to live out, so she'll have to stay at my parents for another year and have a long journey to south London every day. Sadly, I don't think she can move back here yet. Not after the way DP's been tonight. It saddens me as he's been so much better since Christmas. Ah well, I should have known it was too good to last...

TFM
I agree with all that you are saying.
But quite often we dont actually know what it is we NEED.

I think baffy has been swept away with the rollercoaster of the past couple of years and now that it has calmed down and reality has set in she is able at last to think.
I agree not to try and second guess what the other person is thinking - open honest conversation is needed now.

Baffy its ok to now know what is best for you - all you can do is try and find out.

I know for a while i wanted to know the movements of ow - but like baffy said i no longer want to give her any of my time.
H and i talk about her in a different way now - although she rarely comes up now.

Dont be afraid of the past either - i think looking back i felt i couldnt keep bringing it up so 'just carried on' but with hindsight i wish we had talked a lot sooner about it all rather than try to get our lives back to normal.
I wonder if this is how you feel now
Your h 'thinks' you are ok and so the cycle continues.

Baffy hope you get some clarity - I know what a whirl your mind must be now. Be kind to yourself - thinking of you.

I think, you know... not being an expert on being cheated on (as far as I know, or for that matter care) so just feeling my way here... that I'm slightly more with LL on this, which astonishingly means I don't 100% agree with TFM - that has to be a first! The thing is, whilst moving on and not raking up the past is good, you do I believe have to first find out why a thing happened, in order to address the problem and stop it happening again, or some other unhappy result. If the underlying dissatisfaction remains, so does the temptation. Once it has been addressed, then the moving on can happen; but it never has been. Totally with you on the talking, of course. The trouble is here that yon fellow doesn't want to talk about it, not the important bits at least. He wants everything to get back to normal immediately, whilst still having a nagging sense that normal is boring.

Maybe that's it - maybe throwing him out, turning marriage into an extreme sport instead of a cosy bolt-hole, will give him the excitement he's missing!

A novel take annie lol at the idea of making marriage an extreme sport. The thing is I think a lot of men want a cosy bolt hole for marriage and extreme sport as a passtime

LL - I am ok really but thanks for asking. Dh and I are good. We could probably do with more nights out but it's a bit tricky with dd stil bf. I've been worried about her lately because she lost weight at last weigh in. Not loads, but she can't afford to lose it iyswim. She herself is fine - bright and alert and I do wonder whether ds may have lost at times but we would never have known because he wasn't weighed regularly. I am just obsessed about her weight and it gets me down sometimes. I was in tears after her weigh in this week but dh was very supportive. Hope you and the family are ok and that you are feeling better now?

agree with you too annie

The problem is one person - baffy wants to talk about it whilst mr baffy seems reluctant to.

So who gets their way????

My money unfortuantely is on mr baffy - because he is a selfish person.

I remember when it became a 'battle of wills' and i think it is very common for the person who had the affair to want it to just go away. Our counsellor was brilliant in that she made h listen to me (didnt have to agree with what i wanted) but made him listen - we then worked out how we could both GIVE something of what the other wanted. It was a slow process as at first h could not see the point in going over it again and again and again (which is what i suspect mr baffy is feeling).

I think one of the main things we both learned was that even if you dont agree with the other person they do have a 'right' to feel the way they do - i remember my saying i was silly for some of the feelings i told him about - well that really doesnt help - now he will try and understand and ask how he can help me. I too think i can listen to him far better and when i am being a bit cold and distance rather than saying he is silly for feeling i am pushing him away will explain that i just need to sort myself out - iyswim.

But if baffy feels the need to talk and find out why he did it or wants him to find out for himself she has every right.

I think a good counsellor would help you both - you would then have a 'time-table' to work towards too.

But i also feel that mr baffy will still want to play the victim and if baffy does ask him to leave he will make her feel guilty yet again.

Ll I remember that obsession with weight so well! But then I think of how tiny my sister was, if they had done regular weighing in the 1960s, my mother would have been frantic. But little sis has just turned 45 and is still slim, but very healthy. (ooh, I hate her )! Maybe you should go on how DD seems in herself - if she's bright, alert and enjoying her food, even if she only eats a little, try not to worry too much (though I know you will!)

Baffy, I'm a little more with HW here on exploring the past (sorry TFM!) - I remember some Russian proverb about dwelling on the past, and you lose one eye; forget the past, and you lose both eyes. Trouble is, what can you do, if DH can't or won't explore his motivation. It's the problem I have with DP atm: he hates the way he is about DD, but he won't seek help to find out WHY he keeps doing it.

Would you believe, I found this morning that he'd bought an M&S Mother's Day meal yesterday. It's all in the fridge with champagne (REAL champers, not our usual Cava) chilling. I know he'd have done it because I said recently how I never had any fuss made of me on M's Day when I was married exh's family didn't do mother's day - in fact, they were pretty crap at ANY celebrations. So he makes this lovely gesture, then ruins it by going into a strop over DD being here. He's undermined the very POINT of Mother's Day and I don't see how I can enjoy that meal tomorrow. I still haven't seen him today. He's upstairs in bed with coffee and 'stomache ache music' (male opera - not my thing) and I am avoiding him. DD's still asleep - we were up very late laughing about her night out.

Sorry girls, I have the grumps. When I'm in this sort of mood, I honestly think some of us are better off just enjoying our children and Ya Boo Sucks to the men!

Anyway Baffy, good luck with having a talk with DH - I do hope you manage to work out what you want. I too wonder if what's happened is, that the roller coaster of having ds2, DH deciding to be with you and sorting out all the mess with OW has slowed down now, it's giving you time to reflect. Take your time - and don't worry if you keep changing your mind - it's not an easy sport, this 'extreme sport' of relationships!

lush - i had the opposite problem - my dc were greedy little things and piled the weight on so quickly there were 'obese' by about 3 months - and that was with breast feeding .
I remember being 'told off' by one health visitor who would not believe i had not been feeding solids. And then by another one because i wanted to delay starting solids til 7 months as we were taking DD on holiday and i didnt want to have to sterilise!
By DD(4) i had given up and i dont think she ever got weighed.
It is only a number after all - which is what i still tell myself now about my own weight .
I also found that there were times when they would lose weight or not eat that much either.

Like your proverb tanee i will use that..

Thanks HW, it's the only bit of Solzenitzin (sorry about the spelling!) I remember. The thing is, I think both extremes are unhealthy. You DO need to move on, as TFM says, but you need to understand the past in order to move on positively - and I'm sure we all agree with that. Blocking off the past, refusing to acknowledge and then understand it, will only cause the same problems to recur in the future. That's what Baffy's H (and my DP!) need to realise, in their different ways. It's the only route to growth.

Hope you are all going to have lovely Mother's Days. I'm just off to visit DD and my mum. DP's in bed and whatever he's got planned for me, I don't want it!

How odd, I seem to have missed out a half page of posts when I did my last one. I hadn't seen about poor Lily's hospital visit for a start . My apologies for seeming to ignore you. And Tanee, good news about DD - well, semi-good!

DS4 was such a piggy, he got hugely fat on breast feeding and refused to give it up for three years . I kept trying to wean him off me but XH encouraged him to keep demanding it. Stupid, stupid man. He (XH that is, not DS4) tried to lay a guilt trip on me when I finally put my foot down, about "depriving my child" etc. Didn't work. Just annoyed me. He did love annoying me. Still does, on the rare occasions he gets a chance.

#bristles#