Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

I understand that feeling totally. I am nearly three years down the line from you, and I still get the 'adrenaline-flight' feeling before I have to see my ex-HN, or his family.

Sadly due to the kids I do still have to see him.

Believe me, after a while you will start to feel as though you have done the right thing. You will be so relieved to be out of the madness.

Your H will probably start to Narc-rage because you are standing up to him, but just keep thinking...it's only words.

There is so much I can call my ex-HN up on, his lies and rages are so ridiculous, but I am now at the point where I just think there is no point, as all it does is upset me. I never get anywhere with him. I just let so much go over me now.

Even the kids are seeing his lies now. As long as they see what he is then I am content. Mind you, as every single thing that comes out of his mouth is a lie it's not surprising that everyone can see.
It's like the old joke...

Q) How do you know a Narcissist is lying?

A) His lips are moving.

Make use of the guards. Stay strong....you can do this, and it will be much better when it is all over. Then you can concentrate on YOU, and getting your head straight.

xxxxx

You can do this therealme. I reckon it's ok to feel terrified: it means YOU are back again, fighting and kicking for your life and freedom. You're not a passive victim anymore. You're an amazing brave brave woman saving her life and her children's future.
Thinking of you

I echo GG and alde...Keep posting and getting support from here if it helps you. You are doing the right thing and you are afraid because you know it is the start of a new phase of your life and there are so many unknowns.

But unless you really think he would become physically violent then, as GG says, it is all just words and hot air. They are weak as piss really, even though they do some extraordinarily 'strong' sort of things (mine flying abroad and beginning a whole new life lie for example, is, on the surface, quite a brave thing to do..but of course it's actually as weak as bat shit and the cowards way out. And totally MAD!

You are not mad, you have woken up and smelled the coffee and that coffee is 100% gorgeous rich illy coffee. There is no going back now. Hurrah.

Lean on people for support. Glad your mum can help you. It is normal to feel afraid in your circumstances. You are indeed going to rediscover the real and previous you..it is going to be Good!

Slowly your friends and family hopefully will begin to see what a loon he is/was though it takes a lot of convincing people. NPD is hard to accept or understand/believe in unless you have experienced it first hand.

And in the end it doesn't matter if they don't anyway...because we all do!

Keep going. Bluff your way with him. Watch him carefully all the while. Do not engage with him when/if he gets enraged.

hugs

What delicious audacity therealme. I am awestruck by your bravery.

Do try and keep things very calm at home over the next few days so that you can gather your strength and so that you have the element of surprise on your side.

H will rage undoubtedly but all the time keep thinking "do not engage, do not engage". You have already heard his rants before so try and just let it go over your head even though it's lies and hurtful.

When I left I just agreed with what he said - for example he said I was untrustworthy and a compulsive liar - I either agreed with him earnestly or said "that's why your better off without me." Arguing with him will get you nowhere and waste valuable time you need for you and the DC's.

N's hate this non-engagement more than anything. My ExN then decided I was an "emotion-less robot" because of this approach.

The upside was because my non-engagement meant the end of any narcissistic supply from me, the result was that within days of me leaving he spent 24/7 on match.com until he'd found the new love of his life 3 weeks later, something which takes most people a lot longer! And that's the best possible outcome for me and my DC's.

So good luck therealme and just remember the day you leave will be horrendous but it's only one day in the rest of your life and your gateway to freedom.

Thinking of you....

Have you got the passports yet? If they're arriving via post be sure to intercept them and keep them away from N before he keeps them away from you.

Good luck!

50 euros handed to me this morning.
Asked why my Mum was coming over again 'so soon' and would there be 'bad vibes?'
An apology via text 'for critisising me relentlessly over the years.'
Gave me back my lap top in exchange for some laundry being done.

Some serious back peddling being done by h. He knows he is up sh*t creek if I leave, he lives here rent free and has saved NOTHING.
It is his way of reeling me back on side again, isn't it?

Ha! Digitalis. When mine discarded me and naffed off he, of course, interpreted my 'silence' in relation to ...who else? Yes, himself. He emailed me two months after he got on the plane, saying 'of course now you are being your usual teflon-coated self. Not talking to me at all'

FFs he had got on a plane to shag whores, taking all our money and leaving me penniless, with no job and a 6 month old baby. He had planned it. I was utterly traumatised, terrified, didn't sleep for three months, had my son removed from me for three days by SS as I was not coping (MN was bloody brilliant though as were SS) and I was being the strong, silent teflony-one?

Jeez they are so self-obsessed and delusional.

Basically of course, his message was Poor Old Him..staggering around a village in the Cambodian minebelt, crying and taking heavy-duty sleeping tablets.

Um..no.. actually he was shagging a prostitute (sadly for her as she looks very young and fell in love with him it seems), scuba diving in Kho Samui, downloading lots of music while he waited for his new job as a lecturer to start (ooooo! adjarn arsewipe! A much better job than a not-good-enough-for-somebody-with-serious-NPD job in a uk secondary school) and lying and trying to impress/shag anyone and everyone who would listen to/have him.

Like your chap on match.crap Digi, he had moved in with another woman within 8 weeks. He still strings the hooker along and is now trying to get into the pants of one of his young students.

And he loathes me passionately. My rages are out of control apparently, I am permanently pissed and have serious mental health issues.

Hello! I am not living in bangland, trying to shag my students, having abandoned two families and with no idea my younger brother died last month.

But actually, of course, I AM still the mad vicious one according to his (now depleted) family. Families that manage to create such awful dysfunctional men have to believe it is nothing to do with them....

As his sister once said to me memorably: 'All arsewipe's paramours have been mad.'

You have to laugh.

Realme, remember that you are the sane one. It may take a year for you to fully realise that but you will. In fact I will go further than that: you are probably the creative, passionate, interesting, funny, strong, intelligent, kind and loving person your H tried to steal. More than just sane. Please keep going. I too am struck by your clarity and bravery.

Sorry for blabbing on about my own crap. It still helps to talk about it on here, even now.

I will never forget someone saying to me (I think it was Thumbwitch) when I was leaning on MN for strength, that 'I probably haven't seen the full depth of depravity to which he will sink yet'. That was so true. I hadnt.

I think my h has full-blown NPD. It's all too crazy and horrid. They really have no conscience, no shame, no hinterland, no friggin idea what being human means.

Your last post appeared before mine popped up. I would be careful. Course he is trying to reel you back in...but please remember, this is only about HIM in his head.

He will be thinking 'I gave her fifty euros. apologised for everything. I am nice and ok.'

Don't engage with his queries about your mother coming over, please. Don't give him a heads-up at all. Do not try any last-ditch stuff to turn the two of you around. If he has NPD, and only you know him better than any of us, it will only arm him with information and possibly allow him to de-rail your plans.

I can feel the tension in your posts. Just be hawk-like and friendly. If he is going to abandon, he will do it quickly enough...but they are also very stupid people and make big mistakes. I just want you to be ok.

Please can you safeguard possessions that mean a lot to you or that you will need - say, your camera, old photos you will want, a cam-corder if it has pics on it you would like, your mobile phone and charger, any old diaries of yours (or his,) anything that might help if there is a custody battle...take some pics of holes in the wall he has punched, if any?

Aggh I wish I could give you a hug

{{{{quick hijack}}}}}

UA, have emailed you.

{{{hijack back. I have emailed you back geordie}}}

N's hate this non-engagement more than anything.

Yes, of course Digitalis! This is why he is being 'nice' to me (despite saying he'd bury me on Fri that is...?!) and I'm being handed free money that I don't have to earn in some way from him. I haven't been engaging with him for some time. It must be driving him up the wall.

Btw, I am also called 'an emotion-less robot'

Unlikelyamazonian -- everything he says about you is actually projection of what he feels and knows about himself. Yeah and his family too. I often wondered if my ex was raised by wolves and it turned out he was. Funny how he has ended up in a third world hellhole where he can indulge his fantasy of being some sort of god and nobody is ever going to call his bluff. Did you say lecturer or lecherer?

I was called frigid and cold, hard hearted... blah blah... by a man wouldn't have recognised a genuine emotion if it jumped up and hit him in the face. He operated out of fear -- no fear, no respect, absolutely no love. The only woman for him was and is his own dear mother, who terrorised the family while he was "growing up" with her spotless house and her regimentation and her my way or the highway attitude, not to mention her sanctimoniousness.... Beware of all efforts by the H to suck you back in. He is feeling your assertion of your own human worth as a personal affront, and wants you back under his thumb because for you to get away would be too much of a blow to his pride. He has no real interest in the relationship per se. Or in you. Sorry to be blunt.

mathanxiety: "Funny how he has ended up in a third world hellhole where he can indulge his fantasy of being some sort of god and nobody is ever going to call his bluff."

• quite. He's the proverbial "big fish in a small pond".

hi therealme, i posted on here a while ago, and have only now caught up with recent events with you.

I have no experience of an NPD partner, only a father, but I can relate to the nice/nasty routine. My dad used to do that, nice was to reel you in and keep you close enough so you were within reach when he next wanted to be nasty and use you to get his kicks.

I am so glad you are planning your escape and i am sure you are very scared, but there are so many people who will help you, you only have to ask.

Good Luck, you are doing the best thing possible for your DC's; like I said earlier, I only wish my own mother had been as brave, unselfish and courageous as you are. You should be proud of yourself.

Oh mathanxiety, please do be blunt! I have had it up to my tonsils with h's droning monologues about my behaviour for years and years. Blunt is good.

Think I realised a long time ago that h had no interest in maintaining or repairing his relationship with me. I remember clearly about 6 years ago him informing me that he was withdrawing himself emotionally from me to 'protect himself'. He has indulged himself ever since and lives as a single man in this house. He lives rent and bill free, comes and goes when he likes. Contributes nothing to the running of this house in terms of chores and his parental involement involves 'educating' the dc about morality and watching a dvd (of his choice) with them.
He works overnights and the minute he returns home he retreats to his bedroom where he remains. If the dc want to see or spend time with him then they must go to his room. He communicates with me via the mobile phones, and until the 'great stand off' several weeks ago, would phone me from his bedroom to bring him up tea/run him a bath/come up to have sex/make him food etc.
He has no car so I would drive him to/from work. I live on benefits yet pay to run this car and pay for him as a named driver on my insurance! Don't stop me now by the way, I'm on a roll..... He lies in bed while I supervise the dc, do all the housework, mow the grass, do all the d.i.y, wash his clothes, take care of the pets, take dc to appointments, organise new schools, organise back to school, clean up the vomit, organise christmas, plan the dc birthday parties, water the plants, sorry, his plants, buy him groceries, iron his clothes, pack his work bag, drop off his work bag, make his phonecalls, write letters for him, meet every one of his f*cking demands!!! and do it all with a smile on my face because if I don't I'm accused of being NEGATIVE.

Sorry. Really had to get that off my chest. It's rather late and I am feeling rather angry.
Probably because tonight I spoke to my neighbour to ask her if I could leave my dc with her on Thurs when I get back from the courts so I could pass on the 'good news' to my h. It meant I had to fill her in on the reality of my life with h. She sat and listened for over am hour with her mouth open wide. I'm beginning to see how my life looks through other peoples lives and it doesn't evoke shame, just lots and lots of f*cking ANGER.

Think I had better go to bed

Oneplusone, thank you for telling me this. I am so programmed into feeling grateful when h is being nice to me. I almost felt guilty this morning when he handed me money, made me think that I was doing him wrong by going to court this week. But it is just a lure, a bribe if you like. He knows he overstepped the mark this week with his death threat if I 'take his kids away from him'. His acts of kindness are loaded with self interest.

What do you (or anybody?!) think h will do when he hears I have applied for a Safety/Barring Order? I am really in the dark with this one.

All Ns are different. On the spectrum. His reaction isn't predictable. He may fly into a rage and call you everything under the sun/accuse you of anything that pops into his head.

He may decide to disappear and run out on you and the DCs taking money on the way out.

He may refuse to leave the house and if police come play the innocent victim to them and try to persuade them you are an unfit mother and he isn't leaving because he's worried for the safety of the DCs.

He may shrug his shoulders, pack his bags and say feck you, and within a few weeks have found his next victim.

He may get violent but you will have people around you so this is unlikely.

Make sure you are not alone when you tell him. Do you have to tell him? How does it work? If you get the Order at court can the police come and remove him? Can someone else inform him?

Try to remain calm. They are cowards. They are bullies. They are scheming and manipulative. They are cheats and they are bonkers. And they are lazy bastards with shit for brains. Remember all that!

You are doing this to protect your children and to get your life and health and future back. It will be so worth it.

have you googled the Order - or why has your solicitor now explained fully to you how it works and what will happen if it is granted??
x

I just googled safety/barring order and have copied and pasted the relevant bit, below. It says he doesn't have to leave the house under a Safety Order...which sounds bloody ridiculous to me as an Order is granted presumably if there is proof of threats of or actual violence.

Do you have women's aid where you are? Can you ring them for advice?

"Under the Domestic Violence Act, 1996, gards have the power to arrest and prosecute a violent family member. Under the law there are two main kinds of protection available, a safety order and a barring order.

A safety order is an order of the court which prohibits the violent person from further violence or threats of violence. It does not oblige the person to leave the family home. If the person lives apart from you it prohibits them from watching or being near your home. A total of 1,221 applications for safety orders were granted through the District Courts in Ireland in 2006. The highest proportion of safety orders granted (693) was against the spouse of the applicant.

A barring order is an order which requires the person to leave the family home. A total of 1,357 barring orders were granted by the District Courts in 2006. Again, the highest proportion of barring orders granted, (727) related to the spouse of the applicant.

To get a barring order or a safety order you must attend a court hearing. While you are waiting for the court to hear your application, the court can give you an immediate order called a protection order. The protection order has the same effect as a safety order. In exceptional circumstances the court can grant an interim barring order. This is an immediate order, requiring the violent person to leave the family home. A total of 2,845 protection orders and 544 interim barring orders were granted by the District Courts in 2006. Further information on the number of orders granted is available in the Courts Service Annual Report.

A safety order can last up to 5 years and a barring order up to 3 years. These orders can be renewed by applying for a further order before the previous one has expired."

Wow, therealme, things are moving on. So glad you'll have your mother with you for support.

And the best your H can do when he's actually trying to be nice to you is to give you 50 euro and let you "earn" back your laptop by doing laundry? He really is a wanker of the highest order. Your life can only get better without this man in it. Sounds like there isn't one single thing you'll be missing about him.

Hi Unlikely, yes that is a Safety Order - it will prevent h making any threats towards me, smashing or breaking things when he rages or taking/destroying anything that belongs to me. If he does, he will be arrested.
Ideally I would like a Barring Order to remove him from the house. I don't know how 'obtainable' barring orders are in the UK, but in Ireland they are generally only granted where there is evidence of serious physical abuse. I have not been physically abused, although the Guards considered his death threat to be pretty serious. Therefore there is only a slim chance I'll get the barring order - all depends on how sympathetic a Judge I get at the hearing. I'm going to take the 'slim chance' option and sit it out here in the house with h until the full hearing which could be weeks away. I really don't want to pack up my kids, one of whom is on the autistic spectrum, their pets and everything else if their is some small chance we could remain here. After all, if I leave, h can not pay the rent on this house and he would also have to leave too. My kids 'home' would be gone, their friendships with other kids broken and their lives would go through a big upheaval on top of losing their Dad.

So I will sit it out with an Nh, who has had his bluff called, under a protection order until the hearing. That will be fun. He won't be able to threaten me, but I'm not stupid, I know his mind will be working overtime to find ways to destroy me while making out he is the innocent victim. If it gets real bad though, I'll just go.

Looking at the stats barring order are rare where you are. It is shit that you have to be put in the position of staying under the same roof as a person against whom a Safety Order has been made. Really eye-wateringly shit.

Why should the second hearing be weeks away?? This sounds truly crazy - why would the law allow such a situation??

I repeat, can you phone women's aid northern ireland for advice about your situation?

The problem with personality disorders such as the type you are dealing with - or indeed with mental/emotional abuse - is, of course, that there are no physical scars or bruises. And with NPD you are often dealing with 'respectable' and charming men.

Just keep your friends and family very close to you and do not engage if he starts questioning or flaring up. Walk away. Do not listen to any threats or accusations..let them wash over you. You have come so far...

please post on thursday and before, and let us know what is happening with you, as I am concerned and thinking about you. When does your mother arrive?

I see the court clerk on Thurs to present my plea for the Orders. The hearing will be before a Judge and h will be notified to be present so he can put his side forward.
It takes weeks Unlikely, because here in Ireland everything moves very slowly, the system is jammed, there aren't enough resourses/staffing etc, everything closes down for the Summer (and it's an incredibly long Summer break here) plus we are in the grips of a major recession that is bringing the country slowly to its knees.

My Mum will arrive Weds and stay till Sun. I have other relatives offering to fly over (very humbling) and I am in contact with my local Womens Aid here in Dublin who will accompany me on Thurs TG! On top of that my lovely neighbour is now well up to speed and she has offered her spare room as a bolt hole should I need it.

But ultimately, as I am sure you are so well aware, this all comes down to my strength of character at the end of the day. My chance to put things right for my own sake as well as my kids futures. At times I feel like hiding under a stone and wishing I had never learned about NPD; but you can't take back the knowing once it's known! I couldn't live with myself if I just continued on and did nothing. I'm a confrontation coward, and this is so bloody hard because I now have to confront my own cowardice and inclination to just go with the flow once again for a quiet life. I can't go back to being a doormat. I have to keep talking myself into knowing I can do this.

Well you are doing it. Talking or no talking to yourself. Good for you.

Well done to have organised back-up in shape of other relatives if necessary, and your neighbour. You may not need any of them: Ns hate being ganged up on and he might flee or collapse or give you a day of shouting shit then be gone. But definitely good to have such things in place, just for your own sense of security and to make it real for you.

He sounds like a real pig. Making you slave. Using his mobile to ring down for a cup of tea ffs?

Is he fat?

I questioned the whole NPD thing for months as I couldn't quite believe in such a thing, and couldn't quite believe that he had it and it was him who had made me the nervous wreck I had become....and because some of my friends thought I was nuts in thinking he had it and thought I was just making excuses for him instead of facing up to him just being a lecherous and irresponsible shit. He is the latter but NPD comes with the territory!

It has taken me a long time to really put the pieces of the puzzle together and, more significantly, to look at my own upbringing/parents and realise how these have made me vulnerable to such men. Because he was not the first of my male lovers with a severe PD. I have just never seen it before.

Now, it is so stark and clear. I am rediscovering the normal girl inside. She is OK. I have cut all ties with my family. They
are bloody awful. My mother has N and I have been sucked in and thrown out by her so man times down the years!

It takes a lot of learning, self-awareness, internet-browsing for info, reflection on the past and help from others who have experienced similar. But once you have understood, as you are now doing, your life will suddenly seem so much more simple. Ironic.

I could explain more but would get too long.

You will prob falter and feel bad and all at sea, confused, ridiculous, angry, a myriad emotions. But hold on to the fact that you would not be resorting to these measures unless SOMETHING was seriously wrong and abusive.

You write clearly and well. You sound in command of what you are doing. You have made patient plans and are following through. You have only a half-ear cocked to his attempts to reel you back.

You are on the OUTSIDE of his illness now and able to look in on it, instead of being stuck in the black abusive fog of being in there with it, with him.

Only a few more bus trips and baggage-hauling and you will be way, way out of it. Negotiate carefully and with regard to your own health, after you have split. Keep going. Keep up appearances with him. Feign ignorance and give your mum a hug from me.

Re: Is he fat?

NO! But oh my god, you made me laugh!

I miss humour