Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Not that I would recommend marriage at all to them (but we do not know this when we marry them, do we).

Hah. I bet we would now!!

Hi again. If I am posting on this too much please tell me. It's not my thread and I fear I may be hijacking it. It is such a lifeline. I too, feel I have come home.

ItsGraceAgain, you are making huge progress. I felt the wisdom and the anger in your posts. Thanks for the wishes about the birthday. On Saturday he was invited out by his adult sons. This was astonishing as they generally ignore him even though he paid for their private education, their school trips abroad, university etc. The younger one, however used Saturday not to celebrate the big birthday, but to confront his father about his shortcomings. He did it in public which appalled my husband. I actually felt sorry for him when he told me. Consequently he was very grateful for all the efforts I had made for his birthday and was full of praise. `I did feel like a pupil being talked down to by a teacher when he told me how well I had done, but it was better that criticism or depression. He wanted a huge party, but has few friends to invite. I am not inviting his girlfriends. The friends we have are my friends. I was always surprised that living so close to where he grew up, he had no friends. He has gone now. I feel weird and unsettled.

Baggy, as far as I can see this is a welcoming thread for anyone who wants to post here . I have to say, I always feel very unsettled after contact with my ex. I dread opening e-mails from him, dread it when I see he is calling on the phone. Contact is infrequent since we divorced but sometimes it's necessary, and he is forever trying to make up rules about how I should conduct myself when things need to be discussed. A bit like being talked down to by a teacher, or someone who thinks he is superior.

You are very patient and kind to consider his feelings about the younger son's confrontation with your H. It was probably an event that was a long time in the making for the son I don't think Ns make very good parents. Of course, he was probably more concerned about being publicly told off on his b-day than anything his son had to say to him. The lack of friends is something I always noticed about my ex too he was always 'trying too hard' with people, always sucking up to people he identified as having some sort of status, always just missing the mark where levels of intimacy and formality were concerned. He would call someone by a nickname on the first meeting, assuming that someone named Michael would be Mike, or James would be Jim. He got people's names wrong too, like calling a man we knew, whose name was Jim, 'Bob' for years. His only friends were those he had known from his teenage years, and even with them, he played a part. With the more 'family-man' friends he was Mr Family Man, talking mortgages and schools and such, but with the rather sleazy, serial-cheater friend, he was Mr Strip Club, Mr Risque Story, etc. Pathetic.

Hi, thanks mathamxiety. I feel quite down today. I am living in our holiday home where I have few friends and no really close friends. My narcisstistic Mother died in December. She had been bed ridden for 9 years, quite unnecessarily at first. However, she had no friends and family avoided her. I used to telephone her regularly but never visit. That way I could control the conversation. I would end any conversation that became abusive, and she grew to realise this. As she had no one to tell, she was a sort of therapy as she would listen. I really miss someone who will listen. I must not hi jack this thread. Is there somewhere I can make on-line friends? No one wants to hear the minutiae of someones life, face to face. I am feeling very deflated and alone. I had some telephone counselling with a guy at Relate. He kept asking if my relationship was viable. It was helpful, as I began to realise that without honesty and trust, relationships are superficial. I am getting too reliant on this thread, I dont' want to be selfish. I feel so bad today.

mathanxiety - I have come to recognise the 'sucking-up' to people scenario with my H. As I now analyse the behaviour so much, I am like a spectator when I watch his interactions with others. The other day, however, what occurred to me about it when 'observing' it again was that it actually looked 'slimey' to me!!!!

Someone has commented about sometimes thinking her ex was secretly homosexual. I have thought this before also, even though I don't think it is probably accurate. It is just a feeling I have got, and, silly things like him being so impressed by particular film starts, sportsmen etc. I have also felt, I hate to admit, rather jealous of his male friends (there are only 1 or 2, but not what I would consider real friendship, but I realise everyone is different). He has often talked about the deep, deep bond he has with a friend he has known since he was young, even though he rarely has contact with the friend. This used to upset me alot as he always seemed able to have a 'deep' (ha ha) bond with another person, but not with his wife, and I used to take this personally. But I think I have got fed up with someone who is 'everyone one else's friend' (very friendly, will do anything to help someone else) but not me - more so in the past when the dc were babies/toddlers as I needed some support then.

It also bugs me how they never lose any sleep at night as they have no conscience and nothing on their minds as there is nothing deep for them to worry about!!!!!!!!

BaggyAggy - I have been having counselling for 2 years because of this. I am very lucky as the counsellor I have seen, and has been helping me to sort my head out, has personal experience of NPD, and it does make a difference to speak to someone who gets what you are talking about. My family, in the past, have given me support during some really bad times (which have been frequent)with my H, but they do not get the intricacy and manipulative complexity of this stuff. There are websites that give alot of information. I have found stuff on youtube as well.

Autumn, I think I think I know what you mean about feeling jealous of your N's "deep bond" - as you say, haha: they can't even manage a deep bond with themselves! XH#2 has a really nice sister, who loves & worships him. I remember one day when we were visiting his family, I walked into the sitting room to find Jon on the sofa with his arm around his sister, who was all snuggled up and happy. It was a shock as I had NEVER seen him physically affectionate like that - with me, her or anyone else. I did a double take. He was grinning at me with pure malice. I told myself I was imagining it (jealous, perhaps). But the image burned into my brain - I can see it now. Now, I'm quite sure I saw what I saw ... malice. (Look at me, and what I don't give you!)
Tosser

Funny about the "gay" thing again. I sometimes wondered if XH#1 was gay - and so did all of our friends. Even my GBF thought he may be! Mind you, he's a narcissist as well. Turned out XH#1 (Alan) had had a few gay experiences but preferred women. Perhaps it has something to do with the hero-worship of male role models (Hitler amongst them, in Alan's case) - and, maybe, the obsession with their own appearance. Just makes 'em "seem" gay, IYKWIM.

Aggy, please don't worry about dumping your stuff in the forum here. The slow dawning of what's really happening can be terrifying at times - almost like looking into the mouth of hell!!! And we do need validation. Each incident sounds little, by itself. Add to that the way we were conditioned into doubting our own thoughts, feelings and perceptions ... you can end up feeling that what you have to say is pointless. Part of your healing is learning that it's not!

I do hope you'll find a good therapist near you. How's your week panning out, now the tornado has been and gone again??

You know, you can ask up front when you 'interview' a therapist, whether they have experience in counselling someone who has been involved with a narcissist. It saves time and money and a lot of futility if you and the therapist you choose know what to deal with right from the getgo. You can identify your primary problem as you see it, and ask for help with that. You don't have to go back to when you were dropped on your head as a baby or what your parents' marriage was like -- you can start with 'I'm BA and I've been involved with a N for X years and it has sucked the life out of me' or whatever.

For me, the most productive counselling happened after I had managed to put words on it all on an online forum. I was able to go to my appointments and be fairly sure I wouldn't spend my whole hour blubbing, messing up my makeup, or emerging too shattered to drive home safely. Posting really helps.

Hero worship and sucking up to people, in my exH's case, had homoerotic overtones. I found out by going through the computer (after a first shocking revelation of that part of the truth when I sat down at the desk one day and moved the mouse -- he was careless too) that he was sexually attracted to older men, "daddies" in the parlance of the gay male world. There was no distinction between his idealisation of certain older men and sexual desire.

Hi guys, I'm here lurking and reading back through the posts on this thread. It is a godsend as it keeps me on an even keel. I have been finding it tough to ignore my ex. He is constantly hovering in the background, sending e mails, asking questions.
Anytime we have to converse I'm left feeling inadequate and 'told off' like I am some silly thoughtless little girl who acts without thinking. Like being told I have 'plunged my family into a life of misery and poverty' because I chose to seperate.

I'm constantly being told that my anger is out of control. God if you knew me you'd laugh at that - I rarely get angry, that was always part of the problem when I was married, I never got angry enough about his behaviour to do anything about it.
He is telling me that all I did in court was recount a 'mere few moments of anger' on his part. That he was entitled to be angry as I had abused him. That whatever he did to me, I had done doubly worse to him.

I find myself back in the old brainwashed state often, thinking that I caused him to be controlling and nasty to me, that it was all my fault. Did I over-react by going to the Guards? by applying for the safety order?
He has ridiculed my thread on RC. Claimed I was doing my usual 'damsel in distress' rouine. He has repeatedly asked me to meet him through a facilitator so that we might clear the air. He really wants to have me sat in front of him with an audience so that he can list all the ways I failed as a wife and feel validated for having been angry and acted the way he did. That he was entitled to punish me.

He says I didn't love him enough, wasn't remorseful enough, didn't try hard enough. Of course whatever I did it was never going to be enough was it? I was always going to fail at some point. Looking back on things now, it was like being suffocated slowly, consumed by him. He squeezed my individuality out of me by dictating the standards and expectations by which I should live, and then criticised me for having no individuality. Six months ago I was in a daze, going through the motions like a ghost. Today I'm at a point where I am starting to think about my needs again, what it is that I want to do. It's like having my personality released from prison.

It's hard though, you know? He is so adament and convinced that he is the wronged party. And to an extent, he was, I was unfaithful and I can't excuse that. But the anger that he feels towards me because of what I did 8 years ago has never subsided. How can somebody feel so angry for so long? It has been feeding him for years, it's almost like he enjoys it. I don't understand why he stayed married, went on to have 2 more dc, when he felt so angry towards me all the time. Well probably I do. I think he was so emeshed with me by that stage that he couldn't leave as 'he' was 'me' by then. That's my npd learning telling me that though, not my emotional 'on the receiving end' self who is trying to make sense of it all.

It was/would have been my 18th wedding anniversary last Monday. A huge bouquet of roses arrived from him. I really don't understand what's going on in his head. He is consumed with anger so he sends roses to mark our anniversary. It's no wonder I lived in a state of confusion for most of our marriage.

Going to stop here. But once again I am relieved to have been able to spew out the confused jumble that lives in my head. Everyone on here is saying the same things to me that I have experienced and it makes me feel kind of 'normal' again for a while. So thanks xx

Hi. I felt really down today. I haven't cried since I was a child, even at my Mother's funeral. Weakness, and signs of weakness, always prompted my violent mother to further violence., Today I felt crying was not an impossibility/ However, the sun is shining here so I went out and attacked the pruning that He had said he would do last autumn. Usually I wouldn't have dared. I realise that because he is so critical of me, I wait and ask his permission/guidance before I do most things. Then there is less chance of criticism. However, today I chose to prune without his permission/advice. I removed completely plants that I (Yes Me) don't like. The sunshine and the exercise did me so much good. I feel quite proud that I did what I wanted. He probably will not notice or comment. I read one post where the victim says that she has become an observer. I think I am also an observer now. I realise that I will never change him. I watch his behaviour for all the signs/markers that I have read about on this thread, and on line. I am just amused and amazed. I feel less dreadful now. I have a great fear that he will read my posts. This isn't possible, is it?

TRM darling, the relationships between you and him is over

What the fuck is his problem?

You need only communicate about the children now.

I remember when you brought this stupid man breakfast in bed and when he broke the order and then the flowers and champagne stage and blah blah.

You are not with him anymore. He needs to move on ffs.

Just get us to keep repeating it to you over and over and over and over....he is the dcs dad but he is nothing to do with your private life anymore. If you are shagging horses it's none of his flippin business.

I think it's really important to make an effort to distance yourself emotionally, become an observer. Disentangling yourself has to be done deliberately in the beginning, with pruning or moving the furniture or binning a bouquet, and eventually it becomes a habit. You wake up one day and do exactly as you please and it's only later that you realise it never occurred to you to ask permission, and you never worried about how the new curtains or whatever would be received. It's pathetic in a way to feel so emboldened by doing something that a lot of other people would do without batting an eyelid, but it's still a great achievement, but 'glass is half-empty' self-talk is not the way forward.

I have found reading other people's posts to be akin to lifting an emotional weight off myself. When I see the many similarities between all the Ns described here, I find it possible to start taking everything my ex said and did far less personally, which is another step towards breaking free for me. TRM, I also got the guilt trip treatment about 'choosing' to break up the family, he was the only one in the house entitled to throw a tantrum (he couldn't deal with the toddlers behaving that way) or get angry; I was not allowed to criticise or show anger, or anything but pleasantness. Anything negative I said was interpreted by him as a personal attack, rejection, the end of the world, and he responded as if I had threatened his life, with maximum force, mostly verbal but sometimes physical.

As far as reading posts -- I think this is a fear that develops as a result of the constant scrutiny we are subjected to; the constant awareness that someone is taking note and is ready with criticism gives us the habit of constantly looking over our shoulders. You could reassure yourself by having your computer checked for spy programmes or keyloggers, and having a password that is really random. If you think there's a chance that your H could join MN and look for you, he would probably not think of looking on this thread. There may well come a time when you would just post away anyway and not care whether he sees it or not, because it's his problem, not yours. Something to look forward to!?

You know Maths, I'd secretly love it if he found this thread - he'd probably get so apoletically angry at UA and her haddock-slapping threat he'd implode

Yeah, it's so easy to get sucked back in. Brainwashed for years and years so I guess it's going to take time to disconnect. Like BA hacking at the pruning, I also cleared the front porch of the many flower tubs he put there. It was the bain of my life having to keep the ruddy plants alive and god help me if I forgot to water them. As it was, the frost had killed most of the geraniums anyway. So I yanked them all out and tossed them into the bin with glee. Got a bit of a fright when I saw just how few tubs were left sitting there and of course then started wondering what ex would say when he saw. It's conditioning, I suppose.

The marriage is over but he hasn't finished yet. He wants some kind of justice for what I did. He won't drop it until he feels compensated, revenged? He bears grudges and he's not going to shrug his shoulders and 'move on' till it's ended the way he wants it to end.
You're right though. I have to keep telling myself that the marriage is over and his issues with me aren't my problem anymore.

That was , not gin. Could do with one though.....

Hi again,
Mathanxiety thank you. By way of explanation, I am still financially dependant on my Husband. I am having cancer treatment and cannot work. During the marriage I worked myself stupid and created investments (buy to let flats) whereas my Husband spent his income, some on his children

"We'll all come round and hit him with a shoal of fish."

Oh, how fab!! Can we herd them all together and lock them in the hold of a mackerel ship - after slapping them? Think how they'd hate getting slimy & smelly!

Hi again. Mathanxiety, you are absolutely right. Why didn't I see that. You said that what bothered my H most about being confronted by his son was that it was in public. Yes, he remarked that someone near them vaguely knew him. That if the boy had something to say, then he should say it in private. It didn't bother him that the boy had issues to raise with him. He knows he can/will blame someone else and manipulate his way out of it. He wasn't bothered that his son was angry with him. He was just bothered that his image of perfect father was about to be shattered IN PUBLIC. And I felt so sorry for him. But I will learn.

BaggyAggy: "He has noticed a change in me. He noticed that the loo seat was up."

Sorry, but

God he is bloody observant. Has he noticed there is minimal loo roll left as well?

I am not taking the piss. I think your posts sound like you are resigned to his crap and you seem to be waiting for a window moment.

It may not come.

Maybe create your own window? Smash it, climb out and run screaming/laughing into another life away from him.

Maybe his next gf will always remember to check that her secret lovers have left the loo-seat down so as not to arouse suspicion. In this case of course he will notice and accuse her too of being sly.

You can't win.

Pass the sprats

Aggy, without wanting to sound like I'm pushing you or anything - would it be possible to sell a couple of the investment flats; purchase your freedom?

Hi,

ItsGraceAgain, yes I have instructed estate agents, but there are no buyers out there at the moment. Hopefully things will pick up now that the Spring is imminent.

I am really nervous that he will read my posts, especially after remembering his comment a few weeks ago that I was checking him out on the internet. I had been looking up personality disorders. I had assumed he found the sites on my history. I usually delete my history after every session. I have noticed that the application "real player downloader" also records my history. This was formerly his computer, so god knows what it on it. That is how I found his e-mails.

And no to the loo roll. Is there a man alive who changes the loo roll?

Glad to hear you've some funds on the way, Aggy Independence is important.

I don't know all that much about Macs but, unless you download a lot of very big items (like films), you don't need the Real Player Downloader. You could either uninstall it, or remove it from your Login Items list - that will stop the downloader running automatically. Reboot your computer after removing things from Login Items.

One way to see if there's a keylogger on your machine is as follows:
Wait until 23:59 (time) or set your computer clock to just before midnight.
Immediately after midnight, type a few words.
Search your entire computer for files modified "Today". This should reveal any files that logged your keystrokes. You can then find out which programs created the modified file, and uninstall it.

Here are the names of some well-known keyloggers for the Mac:-
Aobo
Key Ghost
Refog
Perfect
KidLogger

Also, make sure your computer is not on a "network", except for its link to your router/modem.

If you're really concerned, you could copy all of your computer's content to an external hard drive (for records) and then do a clean system install on your computer. This will wipe everything off it.

Sorry if that's a bit too much geekery!

OMG am wondering about my ex now! Thought he was just a spoilt arsehole but reading a few posts here...

TRM, in my opinion, he is using your affair to punish you. If it had seriously bothered him he would have left you.

Thanks for saying that BA. I must have been told it a thousand times - a normal person would have either left; or forgiven me and moved on, not stayed and punished me for years. My 'normal behaviour' radar was distorted a long time ago I think.

As for wanting me back because I was a good wife...he wants his cushy life back for sure!
He interprets my assertiveness and ability to stand up to him as 'anger'. Asks me if I am on medication! I have armed myself with information about emotional abuse and can name his tactics when he uses them on me. He doesn't like this. For years he quoted psychobabble at me from therapy books and named all my negative behaviours. It must really infuriate him now that I can argue back and he can't smash something...

btw, my ex also lived rent and bill free with me. He spent his salary on designer clothes, boxes of imported cigars and paintings. Now he lives in his mothers front room to 'save' for a house although this may take a while seeing as his recent tattoo work cost him two grand

Hi again, Thanks ItsGraceAgain for the computer information. I have removed the Real Player Downloader. The computer does appear to be on a Network. What is the significance of that? I am far too computer-illiterate to understand the rest of your post, but will consider it slowly with my Mac for Dummies at hand.
My Husband set up my Hotmail account and password. How do I change the password? Sorry to be so stupid as not to know.

TRM I am so glad you are hanging in there. You say that you can now argue with your ex. Why bother? Would it be better to just detach from him and not engage with him in any way? He is making himself still part of your life by making you think about him. Even if it is negative attention, he is getting attention. I know I am the last person to give you advice, it's all so easy when it's not you.