Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

Bloody hell - i'm afraid i think OP's DH sounds a nightmare. I'd be incredibly hurt by his attitude and lack of interest in your DD if i was you.

Of course having a baby puts a strain on a relationship but it doesn't seem as though his life has changed that much.

Out of interest - do you see much of your pre-marriage friends? What do your close friends think of him?

Am sure its not 100% his fault - i know sometimes i slip into playing the martyr role but he does sound totally knob-tastic.

I'd try counselling if you still feel its worth it, ie, you do still love him and see there's a wonderful person there really but am not sure if you think thats the case . . .

Good luck.

Just wanted to say that when I read the taxi bit in OP I felt a wave of recognition. My ex would always do that, ie talk to me in that strained, icy tone as if he was dealing with a mad woman who had to be kept calm.

Ffs, the taxi arrived early. So 'could you hurry up please' is hardly the request of an insane person. By all means a normal DP might swear a bit about the taxi driver but why get glacial with his other half?

OMG it's all coming back. I remember my ex gripping my arm to make me walk more slowly when crossing the road because We. Have. Right. Of. Way. Said while barely moving lips so nobody else has to see how much his silly girlfriend needs to be restrained.

AAAAARGH! I'd actually like to invent a time machine and go back and whack him one for that. Patronising c*.

So I'm putting OP firmly in the right on that one.

Moll - sorry, I got that a bit wrong about the wedding, but they do say when you marry someone, you marry their family to and I think it's in our duty to try our hardest to get on with our inlaws and not behave so childishly and in a manner that's almost guaranteed to upset your partner. Did you ever talk about how you felt about his reaction to the whole situation? Did he ever say he'd swallow his pride to make you feel happy? To me that's occasionally what we do for our loved ones, we do things we don't always like to make them happy. He doesn't appear to have ever done that for you, you seem to be doing all the work.

I don't think you're wrong at all to be honest, again I'm not one of those kick him out types at all, but he hasn't shown you once that he's capable of doing something he dislikes purely to make you happy.

Can I ask what his attitude to having children was before you had your dd? Was he keen or did he have to be persuaded?

I've missed a couple of threads then, by the sound of it. The more I hear about your DH the odder he sounds but I see others on here seem to have a slightly different slant on the threads I missed.

Counselling still sounds like the best idea to me. The advice you'd be given about contact would probably be twice a week, the length of time could be anything from a few hours to overnight but the gaps should ideally only be 3 or 4 days in between. I wouldn't think having him in your home would be a good idea at all, given his difficult and controlling behaviour.

Honestly, get rid of this man. COunselling is not going to change him into a helpful, considerate, sensible human being, it's simply going to make him even more self-obsessed - you'll be in for weeks of him whining about how he doesn;t feel nutrured enough and everything's all your fault. The only reason your relationship worked before you had DD was because you were able to obey him and indulge his whims and he never had to make any effort on your behalf. He will never lose the idea that he is the im;ortant one in the household and everything should revolve around him.

And I am disappointed but not surprised at the number of posters saying Moll should stroke this knobber#s ego and suck his cock_ sadly it's not just men who think that men are fundamentally more important than women.

Well, I agree with you, SGB, but I was hoping by suggesting counselling she'd realise she was born with an asshole, she doesn't need this guy.

Perhaps the counsellor will suggest her h does something that's just for her, that actually puts him out to make her happy, and he'll see whether he's a man or a mouse.

I am really shocked by the attitudes of some posters.

Molls dh has, in one thread, refused to look after his daughter. And because Moll has had the audacity to ask him, she is controlling?
Then in another thread he refuses to entertain the idea that a house with a garden may be a good idea and because Moll doesn't agree again she is controlling.

Get real. He wasn't refusing to look after their daughter because he had to perform heart surgery. No he wanted to go to the gym.

He doesn't want a house, not because of any real reason, but because he wants to live in a flat.

This man seems like he couldn't give a crap about his wife and child so why should the op put up with it?

I think he might have agreed to counselling because he wants to manipulate the counsellor into agreeing with his point of view. He needs to feel that he is right and one of the ways he does that is by making everybody agree with his world view. If they don't, they're out, e.g. your parents.

Not convinced counselling will work. I would think about planning to leave - you don't have to actually do it, but by planning it you will have more chances (look at the Women's Aid website and speak to them - very good at practical stuff).

My partner was similar, although not quite as extreme but then I crack after 24 hours worth of sulking. In retrospect, I wish I had left when my DD was the age of yours; in some ways it might be easier especially if you can afford a nanny. Children have to have consistent behaviour from their caregivers, it doesn't have to be biological parents. The studies of child development have shown this and many people will say growing up with unhappy parents is worse - I'm one of them.

VG point, SGB. I suppose the difference for some of us is that we do not see it as our role - or part of a quote 'healthy' unquote relationship - to nurture our partners, even if those partners are afflicted with a Y chromosome.

Like, yes. Strive for some kind of workable equality and general niceness and sufficient enjoyment to counterweigh the wearing mundanity of long-term monogamy and domesticity, yes. Nurture, no.

I do enough bleedin' nurturing with my darling little vampires Inferiorettes. I kind of expect a reasonable amount of self-management in the nurturing department from their father. Who is an adult. And doesn't expect me to nuture him either.

Bravo, MI! An excellent post.

A friend of mine dealt with the permission questions from her DH quite adeptly: 'Yes,' she would say, 'of course you can go....' 'You just can't come back...'

Phew I've just been bathing DD and putting her to bed so have missed an awful lot of posting.

To respond to a couple of points: I'm sure I am controlling in my own way e.g. I know I'm a perfectionist which is probably v annoying to live with. But I do think that some of DH's recent actions are a step up from that. Last night was a classic: I didn't bother putting it in the OP but DH ignored several texts I sent him asking whether or not he was going straight home after the event i.e. did I need to make sure that I was home before our nanny finishes up or was he going to be home? He's done that a few times. Net result: I have to go home because I don't know whether or not he will.

Re the wedding: we do talk about his reaction because he acknowledges that it gave rise to a massive anger within him that he says accounts for a lot of his behaviour towards me over the years. He would never have swallowed it to make me feel better. It was a point of absolute principle for him. He doesn't think his anger was disproportionate so is comfortable that his reaction was entirely justified by my parents "unacceptable" behaviour.

It was DH that pushed to have children and he has always said that he wanted 3. As mentioned on the flat thread the other night, he is currently saying he only wants one now that he has "realised what a f*cking hassle" it is in terms of impact on us.

We have a funny situation regarding old friends. We are both from the other side of the world but met in England. He hasn't had a huge amount to do with my pre-marriage friends because when we go "home" for holidays we are usually rushing around catching up with family and everyone else. He does not get on at all with one of my oldest friends. Sparks flew when they met. I know she doesn't like him. She is simultaneously highly intuitive and very cynical. I've never asked her why she doesn't like DH as she is very pleasant when she sees him, but I know her well enough to tell. I suppose I should ask her what she really thinks. My family have been very open-minded towards him. They liked him when they first met him but then things went a bit awry with the wedding and follow on. They do their best to be welcoming. I know my mother is fond of him at one level and quite worried at another.

I don't want to demonise DH. He does do nice things for me e.g. it was my birthday the other week and he drove 2 hours to buy me something that I had seen and loved when we had been out that way one day. He also organised for us to go away somewhere for the weekend for my birthday. It's more the day to day stuff that can be very trying

Moll, do have a little read of some of the WA stuff and the classic books on abusive, controlling men. Because you may have the idea that 'abusive' men are instantly recognisable, they have 'Bastard' tattooed on their foreheads and spend their whole lives thumping their partners and calling them cunts. This is not true. Manipulative, selfish, sexist, controlling men like the one you have got are very charming when they are getting their own way.
They just happen to, oh, let's see, slowly but surely isolate their partners from family and friends. They belittle the partner's job, if she has one, and work busily to undermine her professionalism.
They do quite a lot of 'nice' things -romantic surprises are a particular favourite, especially romantic surprises that actually inconvenience the partner in some way - but their niceness is on their own terms and god help the partner if she isn't knicker-droppingly grateful or dares to suggest that a bunch of roses is all very nice but she would actually be more grateful if he put the bins out or took the DC off for an afternoon so she could go to the pictures.
They will offer or agree to help out in some way, to look after DC or be the one who gets up early with them for once when the partner is tired, but then at the last minute they will not actually do whatever they have offered to do - this will be because the partner looked at them funny, or said something 'disrespectful' or didn;t immediately agree to sex.
The main thing driving these men is a huge sense of entitlement - they have PENISES. So the world revolves around them and they will make sure that their partner's world revolves entirely around them, and punish her constantly for any behaviour that suggests she is thinking about anything other than the man's comfort and wellbeing.

Can't post much as I'm just off home from work. Moll, big material gestures are all very well but if he can't make small emotional ones, like rushing a bit to help you out, then there's something really lacking.

You say it yourself that your friend and family are polite and nice around him and do their best because they know that makes you happy. Ask yourself why can't he do the same?

I'll try and keep up over the weekend, I hope things work out for you.

Thanks for your posts dittany, SGB and HeadFairy. DH has just come home and has gone to bed. He went out with some mates for drinks after work. He has answered all my attempt-at-being-pleasant questions about "how was your day/evening" in monosyllables. One of them was a "no" in response to "did you get a chance to call the counsellor?". No questions asked of me, including the obvious "how was DD?"

Well, at least he's predictable.

Wow, can't wait to come home and see his baby daughter at the end of the week, eh?

Seriously, what quality of life are you having with a person like this? What kind of example is this for your child?

If he really wants to save your relationship don't you think he'd at least make an effort.

It's going to be like pulling teeth to get him to a counsellor, I can already tell you.

I think he sounds horrible, Moll, I really do. He's a grown up, FFS, even if he isn't behaving like one. If my DH had refused to alter his behaviour and expectations of what his life would be like after we'd had a child, I don't think we'd still be together. And that is exactly what it sounds like your partner is doing. Please go ahead with counselling if you can do that alone. If nothing else, it will clarify your thoughts about what you want or need to do next.

OMG this man sounds like a huge, gigantic baby. I can tell you right now that no amount of counselling will help him. Ignoring his behaviour and not responding to it will help if you possibly can. I would laugh in his face at his demand for apologies and assurances that "this will never happen again". How can you promise it will never happen again, who on earth can know what issues will arise in the future?

By not asking about your dd is lumping her in with you and "punishing" you both, yes punishing your tiny dd for your transgressions this morning. He is a fcking arse! The time I realised things were truly over for me and ex h was when we had a big day out planned and he walked out taking my ds and leaving dd behind because she is a lot smaller (and more work!) even when she ran crying after him. He* decided that she could be punished alongside me because I had stepped out of line. Your dh is already doing this and it will only get worse. I ranted at exh for this behaviour and you need to have rant at your dh for it as well. He sounds sooooo like my ex it is untrue.

This is the book you need Inside the Mind of the Angry and Controlling Man. Sorry if it has already mentioned.

you're a bigger person than I am, Moll, because if he pulled that stunt on me the only appointment he'd need to make is with his lawyer.

seriously.

He can be so horrible. I feel really upset this evening, even though I knew he'd come home and be like this (predictable as you say expat). It really, really, really pisses me off that he didn't ask about DD. He just ate his dinner and is now in bed snoring his head off like he doesn't have a care in the world.

Thanks Sunfleurs - it's funny you should mention that book, Why Does He Do That. I bought it a while ago on the recommendation of another MNer when I posted another thread about DH. I read a few pages then but felt a bit... can't think of a better word than "alienated" by the abuse/abuser terminology. But this evening I picked it up again and read the introduction properly and have found that the author explains that he uses "abuser" as shorthand for all degrees of controlling behaviour and that someone can be controlling without being abusive. I know some posters on this thread have found DH's behaviour ok. I don't want to over-dramatise my situation. But when he comes home and acts like he just did, I do get the feeling that he is somewhere on the spectrum being described by that book (at the milder end, admittedly)

Hi Moll - I've read most of this thread and I have to say that the big red flag for me is that your H seems to be "projecting" on you, for lack of a better term. Things like emphasizing how much you have changed since having the baby - even though he originally wanted three until realizing how hard it is to have children. I think that his thinking is changing and he is seeing you and your lives through different eyes. But it's everyone else's problem, of course, not his.

I fear that he will only be cooperative, as long as you are conciliatory with him...and that is nowhere near the point. Counseling will certainly be a big step towards giving you both some perspective. It sounds as though you are starting to get some for yourself, at any rate. Please know that however you may perceive your own faults, you are coming across as a very reasonable person who is willing to share the power balance in your relationship. Your H seems only to be content when he is in control, and he sounds extremely emotionally unhealthy to me (sorry). And that is not something you can fix. That is his job, should he wish to recognize it. His unhappiness is coming from him, at least in part, and he certainly needs to take responsibility for that. This story has yet to play out in full I think. Keep posting for strength and perspective. I really wish you the best of luck, whatever the outcome.