Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

He can go for over a week refusing to speak to you?

Yeah, this isn't about a taxi or the gym.

Please go see a counsellor on your own asap.

Moll, I'm not one for point scoring and playing games, I'm the first to kiss and make up with dh when we have an argument as he's quite a sulker sometimes, though his sulking is usually for hours, if not minutes, and all I have to do is crack a joke and the atmosphere breaks, and we hug and say sorry to each other (but it is usually me that initiates it admittedly)

However... the control thing is what rings bells for me. It is indeed very controlling what he does. The taxi issue is a slight distraction, because it is quite trivial (though for you must have been intensely irritating at the time) and it does divert attention away from what I think is the key thing here is is overbearing controlling attitude.

It seems that this behaviour has already influenced you because you're almost apologising for having rushed your dh, and you're saying you should have played things differently. It's the same thing really, all you're doing is making compromises for his intransigence.

I hope the counselling works, I've never been so I don't know if it's the norm to have four counsellors. I would have thought one counsellor hearing both sides would have been fairer, but I'm no expert, perhaps it's always done that way.

Moll, I just wanted to post again to say I do feel for you. My situation was very similar to yours (although not so extreme). It was a miserable time - I think I only realised how much in retrospect.

I completely understand how small issues can get blown out of all proportion in this kind of situation. It is astounding how well XP and I can resolve conflict now that we are no longer stuck in an unhappy relationship but at the time we were at each other's throats.

I agree with expat and headfairy that his attitude sounds controlling and that is worrying.

You sound like you are doing a great job working and looking after your DD. It is bloody hard, but it does get easier as they get older.

Good luck with the counselling. I had some on my own and it really helped.

I agree that this isnt about the taxi or the gym, and whoever posted saying that a baby places an incredible strain on your relationship was very right.

After we had our first DC, I was extremely irritable - no, angry, all the time, and DH bore the brunt of my rage. It wasn't PND either. I only realised how nasty I had become when I once found myself screaming at him over why he had allowed the baby milk to finish before running to the shops for more (even though there was enough left for two feeds). This went on until well into the fourth month.

If my husband had posted on this board recounting all the incidences we had rowed, I had lost the plot, and he had had a rough day, I dread to think what kind of negative replies he would have received - or would he have? Are we automatically on the side of the OP in this because she's the woman in the relationship? Or is telling someone to walk away from their relationship just easier said than done?

Your husband will most likely love you and need you as much as I loved and needed my partner. Unfortunately, when life changes drastically it sometimes makes arseholes out of the best of us, and we show our insecurities in the worst possible way.

Finally, marriage is for worse, as well as for better.
One day, he may be worshipping the ground you walk on, because you supported him and loved him unconditionally through this patch.
Just like I do of my DH.

Please can you tell me what you think of this latest development. So DH said this morning that either I had to apologise for my behaviour yesterday morning and confirm it would never happen again or there was no point getting counselling. There have been different views on the taxi and, while it's just one of many incidents, I don't want to get stuck on it (either here or with DH in RL). So to try and smooth the path with DH, I just sent him a short email saying "I don't want to split up. I can see why you felt nagged yesterday morning. Please can we commit to going to counselling?". He emailed back and said "I don't want to split up either, but I need the old DW back - I'm not fond of the new one. Happy to give counselling a go."

So it's good that he's talking, it's good that he's saying he'll go to counselling. But getting the old me back.... I haven't turned into a crazed nagging harridan, despite what the taxi thing might suggest to some. I don't know what he expects when he says I want the "old DW back". Things have changed. I've changed. My life has changed. Our relationship won't be the same because there are no longer just two of us. Maybe it's only through counselling that this will become clear to him. I'm not sure how to reply. I don't want to get into an email debate with him (obviously v dangerous) but I would like to say something back. Any ideas?

Zen - there are controlling issues that go back a long way. We've been married 5 years. Long story, but we got married just the two of us with no one else there. My parents were v upset (I now understand why; at the time I was a bit headstrong and DH was very strong on not wanting a wedding). DH took great offence at my parents' upset reaction, which he took as an "attempt to control our marriage" and basically didn't speak to them until earlier this year, after requiring that they apologise for their behaviour. I was so relieved that the rift was over as it had been eating away at me for years, and especially once DD was born. My parents were, by this stage, desperate to make amends, esp with DD on the scene. However, it's things like this that have got me wondering over the last few months whether DH is actually pretty hardline in the way he behaves with people

The message exchange looks very good to me - a positive development. He's agreed to counselling which is great (and he's therefore agreed to do what you wanted, which shows he's being somewhat flexible and listening to you) and he's said he wants the old you back which shows he must still love you, IMO.

I think you're misunderstanding what he means when he says 'getting the old me back'. You say that you haven't turned into a crazed nagging harridan, but it must seem to him that sometimes that's how you behave otherwise he wouldn't be saying that. Obviously, as you admit, you have changed and your relationship won't be the same, but I don't think he expects your relationship to be exactly how it was. He simply expects you to be more like the person you used to be, to the extent that is possible in the new situation. As I said earlier, having a baby changes your personality and it's very easy to geet stuck into a rut of treating your husband as a child or a colleague, rather than a loving partner. He wants you to be loving and to treat him as a friend and an equal, and for the time you spend with each other to be shared time. It doesn't sound like either of you are achieving that at the moment.

Your statement that 'maybe it's only through counselling that this will become clear to him' worries me because it sounds like you are convinced that you are right, and it's him that has to change. As I've already said, I think this problem lies with both of you, and both of you will need to make adjustments to make this work. You need to approach this as a partnership rather than as a battle and work together to find a solution. Not find some process whereby you can convince him that he's in the wrong.

As for a response, I think the best one would be 'Thanks for agreeing to counselling. I love you and hope we can both figure out what we're doing wrong so that we can get back to enjoying our lives more, and having fun together and with our DC.' I hope that's how you feel - well done for working this out to the point where you're both going for counselling

You can be the same person that you used to be, but with a child as well. After all, that's the person he married. That's what I mean.

Thanks Domo. I don't think that the problem is all with him- I didn't put that very well. What I mean is that DH is currently in a place where DC should have no impact on our lives at all. I'm probably at the other end of the spectrum. I'm very open to looking into my behaviour as I'd like to understand what influences/mindsets/fixations are operating on me for my own benefit as much as anything else.

I really hope that counselling will help you both then. Of course he must realise that DC will change how things work at home, and change his priorities, as they do yours. At the same time, you need to make sure that you make time to keep alive your relationship with your husband.

It's very, very easy to replace your relationship with your husband with that of your child. The result is that the man is alienated, takes little interest in the DC and shirks responsibility - if you do stay together, then when the DC grows up and leaves home you realise that you have nothing in common any more.

For all your sakes, you both need to develop a good relationship with the DC, but make extre effort to keep alive the relationship you have with each other. That's incredibly hard when DC are young, but it's so essential, because by doing that the DH will automatically help more with DC and build a far better bond with DC, because he won't see DC and competition, and you'll both be FAR happier in the future. It's bloody hard work though, of course.

sorry, my spelling sucked there. I mean 'won't see DC AS competition'.

Moll - have you ever posted under a different name?

domokun - sorry but I disagree. I feel moll's dh has behaved terribly badly, the story about the wedding has left me feeling a bit and the fact that he made you cut off contact with your family for four years is terrible. I'm sorry but I'm starting to really dislike your h Moll. The more I hear about him the more I think you have to deal with this now, and giving in to him is not the way. It's not to be bloody minded, but he's either got to learn you can't control people like that or leave.

He's even done it to your parents, getting them to admit they were wrong (which is I'm sure not how they felt at all - I'm sure they were devastated to not go to their daughter's wedding) just so they can see their granddaughter... sorry but to me that would be the dealbreaker and I'd already be out of the door. That is just unforgiveable behaviour in my book.

Having a baby may have changed your personality, Domokun. Plenty of us don't change. We continue to expect our partners to behave like responsible adults and step up to their responsibilities. And indeed, plenty of partners - male as well as female ones - do precisely that.

You may live in a universe of sad little boys feeling Freudianly bereft because Mummy has turned her attention elsewhere. But that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Agree with everything Domokun has said.

And would add that I think that when a partner says they want the "old" person back, I am sure it's about tone and style more than anything else. eg the person who didn't get stressed when a pot dropped on the floor vs the one who finds it the most stressful thing ever. Or perhaps the person who's not so tired every night they pass out early. I'm making these up obviously because I don't know you, but having been sick in the past and experienced some (relatively short term) personality change, I know that DH didn't miss going to the pub or whatever, he missed my personality - the woman who would do a little dance in the street if he gave me a song to listen to on his ipod for example.

I was just coming to post what motherinferior posted

My dh would be disgusted at this infantilising attitude. We are adults - we bring the children up, run the house etc together and we don't treat each other like children. A man who behaved like this because he was jealous of his child would get painfully short shrift from me I'm afraid.

And I don't think anyone is denying that OP's DH has serious issues - and clearly he's seriously stubborn. But OP doesn't come across as perfect either - they both need to work on this relationship.

"when a partner says they want the "old" person back, I am sure it's about tone and style more than anything else. eg the person who didn't get stressed when a pot dropped on the floor"

tough shit! Life changes. People get stressed. It neither explains nor excuses a grown man behaving like a toddler denied an ice cream

Her DH says it changed her personality - he must think that's true, otherwise he wouldn't say he wanted the old Molly back. That sounds to me like they're not making enough time for each other, or that the way they're interacting with one another has changed significantly.

It sounds to me more like everyone else is taking his grumbling ridiculously seriously.

But then I find the best way to cope with feeling fed up with my (male) partner is not to Spend Time Together (shudder) but go and spend some time away from him, rather than pander to his stroppiness.

'But then I find the best way to cope with feeling fed up with my (male) partner is not to Spend Time Together (shudder) but go and spend some time away from him, rather than pander to his stroppiness.'

Do you really shudder at the idea of spending time with your OH??! And isn't avoiding the problem just going to make things worse in the long term? That's not the recipe for a healthy relationship IMO, although everyone's different ofc.

who wants to spend Quality Time with an emotionally blackmailing sulker though? Not me.

I can't imagine a greater turn-off.

Grammaticus - hello. I'm ashamed to say that you are right. I changed names because the progress that seemed to be on the cards then did not happen. Now I am stuck again.

I shudder when I'm fed up with him, yes. And then I go and do something else with other people - because I think other friendships, other relationships, get horribly squeezed out in our focus on Our Special Partnership - and he does something else and then wow, what a surprise, we find we're getting on better.

I digress. But I do think it may be a useful digression. I think focusing on His Problems Poor Thing is being counterproductive and also terribly draining for the poor old OP.

Exactly, Greensleeves.

Exactly, Greensleeves.