Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

Hi Moll - sorry, only just caught up with this. You know what I think. Sorry things seem to be going from bad to worse.

I can't believe some people are defending his behaviour to be honest. You support him financially, you do all the childcare while he behaves like a petulant child and somehow that's also your problem? Eh? And how they've managed to overlook the fact that your reminder about him calling the counsellor results in him saying he wants custody is beyond me.

Anyway, leaving the stepford wives to one side, hope you have a better weekend - perhaps he'll wake up today and realise what an arse he's being

SGB described my ex to the letter last night. The thing is he still sees no wrong in his behviour. I ended up having him arrested on christmas eve last year, we had long seperated since then but he turned up drunk punched a hole in the wall, shouting and screaming abuse at me had a kitchen knife threatening to kill himself (because by leaving him I had driven him to that) he tried to kick my front door in when I got him out the house. he behaved in this way while his young children were sleeping in their beds upstairs yet it is my fault because I called the police, it is my fault becuase I left a lazy selfish emotionally abusive relationship he cannot and will not see that him or his behaviour played any part in what happened.

The coment you made about presents srtikes a cord too though, he was a high earner and keeps telling me even now that me and the children wanted for nothing. Materialistically he is spot on he was very generous with money and gestures that he could pay for but we wanted so much for some love and emotional support and he couldn't buy that.

This sounds quite mind boggling awful. DP (and I) can be stubborn but we are curently trying to work through that because life is just too bloody hard without having to put up with that at home. It's exhausting when life is just a series of small battles and quite frankly I wont live like that. owever, we seemed to be caught in a death spiral where neither one would give an inch.

Again, a lot of our arguments centred around my work. I don't earn more than my partner but I do work much longer hours. This used to lead to ridiculous arguments over who was the most tired. The arguments frommy perspective were to try and get DP to do more housework. However, he seemed to see it as an argument about who worked harder and almost an insult to his masculinity (cod psychology maybe!).

I am a total control freak, partly because I have to be for my work and hence used to do 99.9% of the cooking (which I enjoyed) and a lot of the tidying up. 33% of that was because I tought DP couldnt do it as well as me, 33% because I was acting a bit like a martyr and 33% was because DP not really offering to help as could get away with it (not sure what the other 1% was!)

However, what has bizzarly made our relationship better is that I have gone on the Cambridge diet (I know lots of people think it is silly but it has really worked for me). DP has been very supportive. Before I went on the diet, we discussed the fact tht for the first two weeks or so I really could not be around food - ie cooking for him or cleaning up kitchen. Also, I would feel like shit so would want to go bed early and not want to do cleaning - basically DP was on his own. He has really stepped up to the plate and done really well and I have made sure I have told him that, even when things have not been done quite he way I like them. Cooking his own meals, cleaning up, constantly getting me drinks of water and making me disgusting packets of diet food . I feel calmer and less resentful towards him and therefore are more pleasant to him. He, I think, has come out of the child role and I will NEVER let things go back to the way the were before with regards to him helping around the house etc.

The reason for this long, rambling post is that I have read your posts about DD and the flat/house scenario and I am wondering if he is trying to gain some control in the only way that he knows? I agree that his behaviour is absoluely appalling and you should not have to put up with it. Whatever happens, he will need to address it at counselling. However,I am presuming that he was not always like this or you wouldn't have married him?

That being the case, sometimes you need an event that the other person buys in to and works with you on to get you working together again. Like other suggested on the thread about the gym, is there anyway you can go away for the weekend and leave him to look after DD? Then when you come home, you will have something that you can genuinely say to him that he has done well. I am NOT saying that you have to pander to him and continually boost his ego. However, this might be something that allows him to engage with you again and for you both to acknowledge the good things that the other one does/can do.

If he refuses to do that or acts like a prat when you get back and doesn't engage with you on this, then I think you know where you stand and I think life is just too short to go on living like this. Even as an interim measure, he should move out so that both of you can get some space and just some peace as you must be exhausted emotionally

'However,I am presuming that he was not always like this or you wouldn't have married him? '

Did you miss her post about how he wanted the wedding to be just the two of them, and got his way, of course, then when her parents expressed upset at not being there he refused to engage with them for 4 years until they gave him the apology he demanded?

Or the post about how he's gone over a week without speaking to his own wife because he's in a sulk about something?

Sorry, Moll, but your husband is emotionally abusive.

Hopefully YOU can get counselling nad come to see that.

He doesn't want to go or he'd have made an effort, so pick up the phone and go yourself.

My understanding is that the OP agreed to have that type of wedding, notwithstanding the fact that she now regrets that. Therefore, OP's husband cannnot take 100% of the "blame" for the wedding as OP agreed to get married in that way. I'm not criticising her for doing so but there is no way that I would have agreed to that and the whole relationship would have been off at that point. Other people would have agreed and OP did agree. Therefore has accepted/facilitated her husband's behaviour in respect of that.

What I am trying to get at here is that surely this man must have had some redeeming features for the OP to have married him and (the ultimate commitment) have a child with him? If he has always acted like this then, whilst I think she should definitely leave. He surely can't have suddenly woken up one day and started to act like this?

If he has always been like this from day 1, OP has had fair notice of his behaviour and I am very surprised that the relationship has continued as long as it has and they have had DD. However, for whatever reason it has.

The long and short of it is that if he has always been exactly like this from very early days, then he is very unlkely to change now as presumably he just has a very unpleasant personality and psyche. If not, then (for the sake of DD) at least, get some counselling and try and work out why he is now acting this way and see if the husband-wife relationship can be salvaged.

I do strongly agree that professional help is needed. Whether he can be diagnosed as "emotionally abusive" on the basis of information on a forum and the application of some (very good) books, I'm not sure because I think it is such a hard thing to define (I have this view as I posted once before asking for advice on my partner's behaviour and got some very interesting and eye opening responses).

I think there is clearly a very unhealthy dynamic going on here and it needs sorted. I am not saying that OP is any way to blame for this but she is allowing/facilitating this and her behaviour needs to addressed (by a professional) too as there are two parties in the relationship and most behaviour (good or bad) is a reaction to other behaviour. He is not acting like this in a vacuum.

If DD was not involved, my advice would be to leave as I think the OP's husband's behavour has been awful and working at it with the help of a professional will no doubt take time and is it worth it in the long run? However, as DD is around both parties owe it to her try and establish some kind of relationship - whether apart or together - as they will always be her parents.

I do also think that it has to be made quite clear to OP's DH that this is crisis time. If I was OP, I would forget looking at houses/flats and would be making it quite clear to DH that there is no way I could commit to that at the moment. OP should go to a counsellor herself. If he wont go, fine, she should make her decisions based on that.

'If he has always been like this from day 1, OP has had fair notice of his behaviour and I am very surprised that the relationship has continued as long as it has and they have had DD.'

People stay with and marry way more abusive people all the time. How is that surpising? My SIL stayed with a physically abusive man for 12 years and had two sons with him. She loved him, she made excuses for his behaviour, she even came to believe it was her fault after a while. That's how abusive people operate.

Bunnysoprano, obviously cannot talk for op but I have lived with a relationship like this with a man with identical traits.
It is not always as simple as having fair notice of the behaviour, my ex could charm the birds out the trees, he did it to everyone, granny's, mum's everyone. Even me in the beginning and even at times further down the line.

The behaviour creeps up on you though, it starts off as the odd little spatt that seems petty and in the early flush of love you sweep it under the carpet or think to yourself relationships are about give and take i'll do it his way etc. as most of us do the difference being is that both parties generally give and take but men like this take take all the time and will not give in at all.
My ex was always banging on about compromise, his idea of which was me making all the compromises and doing it his way.

I have said it already in this thread when you are living like this each individual incidence can sound petty and like a tit for tat game to outsiders but it isn't in my case it was me fighting tooth and nail to not give in again and again to gain some kind of control of my own life back.
But over years all this does chip away at you, you do lose the will to have another battle and it wears you down.

It is surprising to me, personally, Expat. That is all my post is - my opinion.

Hopefully, your SIL has now left though.

I agree with you Ineedacleaner that the behaviour creeps up on you.

However, I would hope for OP that this is now the crisis point and either they work it out with a professional or go their separate ways. I think OP is very lucky in that she earns more that her DH so at least the financial balance of power is with her and that could (financially only) make it easier to go if needs be.

I still stand by what I said in my original post which is this must be so emotionally draining and exhasting. Living with someone who is constantly working against you. We went through a period of this (related to cleaning and helping round the house more and not as serious as this). One day, I just disengaged and thought that if things didn't get any better, I was going to go. Once I had made that decison in my mind, I felt so much better as I could see light at the end of the tunnel. Hope OP can too.

not only does this sort of thing creep up, but it often doesn't actually really show up until the first DC arrives. Because up until then, it's easy to not really notice the fact that this man is getting his own way all the time, and sulking if he doesn't, and that the relationship is in fact All About Him. It;s just easier to give in to him, to take on board his suggestions, because it's no big deal which restaurant you eat in, or whether or not you buy that dress, etc.
But once there's a baby around, the man's whims have to take a backseat, and if he is this type of selfish sexist, then his behaviour will get steadily nastier ( sometimes to the point of physical abuse of either partner or baby) in an effort to get back his position as most important person in the house.

Bunny, maybe if he has always been like this, the OP simply didn't notice as much or feel it mattered so much before she had a child? A greater level of commitment sometimes makes you realise things that you didn't previously even if they were there to see.

SGB put it better than me. I was once in a relationship which was absolutely fine until we moved in together at which point the tiny annoyances (which were perfectly livable with in a relationship where we only saw each other four times a week or so) suddenly became dealbreakers.

moll - are you the person with the roof terrace/balcony issues?

He sounds as if he is trying to establish control, and going out of his way to be awkward to try and prove some sort of point constantly.

Agree with expat - this is emotionally abusive. I think you need to tell him you will not accept it any more - that your limit has been reacher he needs to start to behave like an adult. If he doesn't I think I'd have to draw a line under the relationship (although I never say that on here) because once he has control it is so much harder to leave (know several women in that situation who used to be able to make decisions alone/ stand up for themselves and have been ground down and controlled by the person who professes to love them).

The fact he's being a twat wouldn't worry me, it's the efforts to control that would be too much.

Maybe my posts were confusing as I was trying to ask rhetorical questions.

Simply put, my view is that if OP can see any redeeming features which may have been demonstrated through the course of their relationship, then I think it must be worth getting counselling to try and save their relationship.

If there are no redeeming features, then split up. However, OP can't simply walk away as they have DD. Therefore I think there is still a need for counselling as, for DD's sake, there will need to be some kind of ongoing relationship.

BOTH parties have to examine their behaviour.

FORGET looking at flats, houses, balconies and making any future commitments until this is resolved, however it is resolved.

With the help of counselling, OP should decide what behaviour she will accept and whether she needs to modify her behaviour at all. If DH can't/won't adhere/accept that, then the relationship must be over except so far as parenting DD.

Whew......!

Ok I'm reading backwards and came across this:

"So DH said this morning that either I had to apologise for my behaviour yesterday morning and confirm it would never happen again or there was no point getting counselling. "

Bin him. Seriously. If anyone ever said that to me they would be out the door so bloody fast...... That is out and out abusive behaviour.

I'm with MI. I don't 'nurture' my husband. I have 3 children who need nurturing. A great big lump of a grown man needs mutual respect and friendship and love but nurture? Good grief no. No more than I do.

SolidGold is bang on.

I thought XP and I had a strong relationship, or I would not have considered having a baby with him. But after we had DD (and even during the pregnancy) it became very clear that he was not prepared to compromise at all and his behaviour became more and more unpleasant and controlling.

I had thought that we were partners but having a baby made it very clear that this was not the case, and that he not only expected me to do all the work, but also massively resented any changes that having a baby had brought about.

omg I got to the wedding.. he made your parents apologise? Ugh that makes my skin crawl. He wants you to apologise for telling to hurry up so you could get to your work function. He sounds big on apologies. In a few years time he'll be demanding such apologies from your dd.

Seriously, pack his bags.

Yeah, she needs to modify her behaviour all right, but binning this emotionally abusive dickwad of a person.

Redeeming features?

Bunny, Ted-friggin'-Bundy-serial-killer had redeeming features.

and ha ha at him wanting custody. That would mean he would have to supervise her on the balcony rather than you. That 'aint going to happen.

I would start recording all the comments he makes about it being so much hassles being a parent etc. Just jot them down with a time and date somewhere he won't see.

He probably does have redeeming features, but whilst he's unable to function in a relationship where he doesn't have complete control he is not a suitable partner nor parent. Especially parent. A controlling parent does damage so he either needs to change (I doubt he can) or leave.

Well maybe splitting up from him is the modification she needs. However, are we the people to be saying that when we only know part of the issues? Surely that is a decision to be made with the help of professional advice?

However, they have a child together. They will need to interact going forward. OP will need to find out the best way of doing that. It is not as simple as walking away. Which, I agree, if there was no DD could very well be the best way forward.

In any event, I think comparing OP's DH to Ted Bundy - a serial killer - is not very fair [hmmm]

I don't think people need professional advice to decide whether to split. It's a decision made by the individual ( or couple). Not a professional's decision. Nor ours of course but when you are in it you can lose sight if what is normal. I can say there is no way I'd stay in a relationship with a man who treated me in that way.

I would say having a child is a huge reason to leave a controlling man.

Professional advice or a third party to help with facilitating ongoing communication.

There is no way, legally or morally, that OP can simply disengage from her DH because of DD.

Leaving him is only the start of the process. I think this may be poster who posted under another name about her husband stonewalling her. Even if it isn't it seems as though commnication is a serious problem here. I don't see that suddenly resolving itself if OP splits up from DH. He will continue to try and contraol/stonewall whether they are together or not.

It seems to me that it is easy for us to advise that OP leaves her DH. What about some advice about afterwards? They will ALWAYS have a relationship because of DD and that will need to be resolved.

Professional advice or a third party to help with facilitating ongoing communication.

There is no way, legally or morally, that OP can simply disengage from her DH because of DD.

Leaving him is only the start of the process. I think this may be poster who posted under another name about her husband stonewalling her. Even if it isn't it seems as though commnication is a serious problem here. I don't see that suddenly resolving itself if OP splits up from DH. He will continue to try and contraol/stonewall whether they are together or not.

It seems to me that it is easy for us to advise that OP leaves her DH. What about some advice about afterwards? They will ALWAYS have a relationship because of DD and that will need to be resolved.

Oops - sorry double posted.

Yes, he has been very helpful - thank you for asking. This was after we had counselling at Relate both apart and together.

The counselling realy opened my eyes. As the counsellor explained, behaviour modification can include leaving someone. That does not mean that by examining and changing your behaviour you are accepting what your partner does. Simply that a relationship is the sum of two people. If I find DP's behaviour in the future to be unacceptable (or he does mine), if we can't resolve things, we can chose to modify our OWN behaviour and leave.

However, as I have said before, because of DD, OP and her DH will need to have some kind of ongoing relationship as at the very least legally( unless in very specific circumstances which I don't think would be met her)that will be expected. Unless, OP's DH simply doesn't want to see DD again.

That being the case, leaving is only the beginning of the next stage and OP will need to find a way to have some kind of relationshp with DH. It may very well be that they can sort that out between themselves. If not, from my experience, counselling could really help