Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

My post is aimed generally and not at the OP, btw!! I don't persume to know her situation at all, and her DH may well be a prick.

The thing with the taxi; well, our taxis quite frequently arrive early but we just ignore them in the driveway until the time they were booked for. DH's company is paying for them and it sounds like your co. was paying for yours, and so don't really see why you had to put extra pressure on both of you just to please a taxi driver.

On the residence issue, I really wouldn't worry at all. Fathers very often ime (I'm a divorce lawyer) play the residence card purely to wind the mother up without any intention of carrying it out. Even if he makes an application, it's extremely unlikely the court would order even shared residence and certainly not sole residence to him.

OMG -- he sounds like such hard work.

I wouldn't ask him things like, 'how would you manage with DD' as residence just isn't in issue. You are the primary carer.

Counselling is never a bad idea as you will always have some sort of relationship with this man, whether you split up or not as you have DD.

Can you imagine how inflexible he will be on visitation, for instance? He will be the same rigid self, but what you can try and discuss is the mechanism that triggers this behavior.

Maybe ask him, 'OK, let's talk about what happened last night. How do you think we could have dealt with it better?'

And listen to what he has to say whether you agree or not, and then say, 'my concern was.....'

He does sound rather self indulgent though.

He sounds like an arse, and one it would be a relief to offload.

Donh't know about any other threads but in this particular case, what was the problem? Why is the convenience of the taxi driver (who was early) more important that your husband? I often have cabs turn up early and leave them waiting if I need the time. Presumably 9am wasn't cutting it fine or anything, and he was ready by 9am. I think in this particular case, you sound very inflexible. And if the cab was booked for 9am, the meter can only start running then, not before - otherwise he could turn up at 7am and earn two hour's money for sitting there reading the paper!

Tulip, yes, we should be encouraging them to sort things out, and I and many others have said that the OP should pursue counselling.

But I am a bit at this: 'I don't think being a single parent is going to benefit the poster or the child here either.' How can you possibly know? (Anymore than anyone can say that she should definitely leave him....)

Head fairy, I did skim over the other threads the op linked to. Just to make it clear, I have particular reason to defend the OPs DH. He may well be an arse of the highest order, but I really don't think the taxi example show this to be true. DH sometimes has taxis arrive ordered and paid for by his company. They are always early. It's a big account so they don't want to run the risk of being late and losing the account, so they wait until he's ready, no big deal.
I read the thread about the flat with the balcony. Personally, I'd rather live in a house, but did they discuss the possibility of moving before their DD arrived or has this question only just arisen.
Communication is the key here, which is what counselling will help with. If after that they can't come to an agreement then separation is the answer. I just sometimes get a bit at the "he's a tosser, ditch him" type replies.

I think in the taxi case- i'd be on his side - work cabs arrive early all the time- I wouldn't rush to get one early. I do think you sound a bit controlling and tbh dismissive of him.

Looking at it from his perspective - you dismiss any work he does around the house as being nothing, you don't acknowledge his time commitments as being important at all. Its hard to say but if he wanted to spend time with his daughter would you allow this? he sounds like he has been marginalised - he is reacting childishly to this but....

Sorry that should read I have no particular reason to defend the OPs DH!

OP was up way before her dh getting their dd ready and then has to wait around for ages because he can't be arsed to hurry up.
The only one being to 'riged and unflexible' was him.
Why in Gods name wouldn't any reasonable person just hurry up or tell you to go on without them.

I agree that there are times when the advice given in some of these threads is unfair but not in this case.
This man, it seems has one priority, himself.

In fact Expats discription of him in her first post is spot on.

Wow thanks everyone for all the responses. I've been stuck in a meeting at work for the last few hours, hence the lack of input from me. I need to go through them all your posts in detail. Just on the taxi thing: I can see that he was working to a "9am on the dot" plan whereas I was working to "let's leave asap and certainly by 9" plan. It's hard to explain but what bothered me about the situation is simply that he knew I wanted to leave as quickly as possible as I had to make sure I was there before my clients. He knew I would be nervous about making sure I was on time and not stuck in traffic and he responded by refusing to make even the slightest gesture towards speeding himself up a bit. Anyway, I can see both sides of the taxi debate and we were clearly, for whatever reason, working on different plans for how the morning was going to work. I guess the thing is, as someone said, this is one in a long series of episodes where he moves to his own beat, regardless of what's going on around him. I suppose I'm hyper aware of this now that I'm constantly juggling things around.

The other thing - the idea that I could soothe his ego tonight. What will happen tonight when we see each other is that he will totally ignore me. He won't speak to me and he will not acknowledge my presence in any way. If I speak to him he will either say nothing and/or walk out of the room or he will answer in a monosyllable. So soothing wouldn't work anyway. I do see, though, that it's difficult for new dads as well as new mums. I know that DH feels sorry for himself and neglected because he doesn't get anywhere near as much attention and affection as he used to and our sex life isn't showing too many signs of life right now. He seems to have no tolerance for the fact that it can take a while to get a marriage back on its feet after a DC comes along.

I do think counselling would help us find a way through those issues, if DH is will to attend. Ok am off to read the responses in more detail now. Thank you

'I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients'

'I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am.'

Why is the OP unreasonable for wanting to leave the house like she said asap? You honestly think her hubby is being reasonable because he waited until the absolute last minute to leave when she was doing him the favour!

I know! I can just imagine him going p-a-i-n-f-u-l-l-y slowly just to irritate her and be all "But you said nine o'clock..."

'I know that DH feels sorry for himself and neglected because he doesn't get anywhere near as much attention and affection as he used to '

He's a grown man. Who is handling these feelings like a three-year-old.

Nothing wrong with feeling sorry for oneself.

But acting out like a stroppy teenager because of it isn't very mature or reasonable.

ginny - I do agree with you in parts, I'm not with the chuck him out brigade. When I said for better or for worse to my dh I did also mean the "for worse", it wasn't just some empty promise, so to me, that means going through the hard times with a bit of humour. Ok so there are going to be arguments, alot of them seemingly trivial, but you have to be ready to compromise, back down occasionally etc etc, and that goes both ways.

Moll, I'm a bit at what you describe as his likely behaviour tonight, that does not sound like someone who wants to work through this. It sounds really passive agressive to me, because if you're anything like me you will (like many women) try to rectify the situation, talk to him, perhaps try and cajole some kind of good mood back in to him, so you're doing all the work, all the running. I'm not saying it's time for power games but that sounds like a deliberate tactic to make you do all the backing down, which is horribly manipulative.

I do hope some counselling works, will you be going together or seperately? Together might be a good thing because it'll give you an opportunity to be really honest with him about how you feel about his behaviour.

I'd go to counselling on my own, Moll.

I think there's still this assumption that your idea is the right one and that he's just automatically in the wrong.

I sympathise with the fact that you wanted to go asap with 9 being the latest and that you're frustrated that he didn't see that. But I also have a DH who hates being rushed, and if there's one thing I've learnt, it's that if I want to leave earlier but 9 am is my latest, there is no point in saying that as he will latch onto the 9 am. Now, you could argue that's molly coddling, but then DH has also learnt that I do NOT cope well vagueness and so even though he thinks giving me specific details of where he's going and when if he's meeting me later is irritating, he does it because he knows otherwise I will just stress (irrationally) that he'll turn up late or whatever. That's what give and take in a marriage is about.

Yes, your DH could have made more of an effort, but really, you're pissed off because you feel that your time was more important than his and he should have respected that. I can see your point, but can you not also see his?

'I suppose I'm hyper aware of this now that I'm constantly juggling things around.'

This is probably right - I expect you're both a bit in the wrong here, and both need to make adjustments. But the only way of doing that is to talk to one another in the right way. I have seen so many relationships fall apart once kids arrive as the Mum assumes responsibility for everything and starts treating the DH like a child, and so unsurprisingly he starts behaving like a child. Neither attitude is correct, of course. Which brings me on to...

'The other thing - the idea that I could soothe his ego tonight. What will happen tonight when we see each other is that he will totally ignore me. He won't speak to me and he will not acknowledge my presence in any way. If I speak to him he will either say nothing and/or walk out of the room or he will answer in a monosyllable. So soothing wouldn't work anyway.'

I absolutely see where you're coming from, but this problem has been around for a while. It's not just about the taxi thing, it's about how you have been treating each other over a long period of time. Curing it will also take time. It requires patience, commitment, swallowing your tongue and being loving and thoughtful, if you do still love him. Stop treating him like he's your 13 year old stroppy teenager, and start treating him like you did before you had kids, and he'll respond.

On this occasion, her time was more important than his - she was hosting the event!!

SHE WAS WORKING, he was not.

I don't think he was oblivious to the fact she wanted to leave as soon as possible at all.

'On this occasion, her time was more important than his - she was hosting the event!! '

She booked a taxi for 9am, and they left at 9am. If she wanted to leave earlier, she should have booked a taxi for an earlier time and told her DH that. He fit in with her timetable, I don't see what the problem is TBH.

OP, although I'm the mum, I'm prob more likely to have behaved a bit like your DH than my DP would have. The difference is that as mum, I had no choice but to get up feed etc., so I had to adjust, but there were definite toy-pram-throwing episodes. I think the leaving at 9, nagging and then being sulky/nasty/threatening to leave may actually have happened over the last year to us too .

Your DH though doesn't have the lack of choice of a mum, so he's not being forced to grow up. I'm lucky - my DP loves me enough to want to help me grow up. And we committed to better and worse. How do you feel?
Sometimes people do unhelpful/unacceptable things. You don't need to accept it - make rules together about sharing DD and housework etc. - but can you understand and grow together and make a life together?

HeadFairy - I don't want to do an amateur psychoanalysis job on DH but he is a major, major, major sulker. He can stonewall for days and days. I broke after a week last time this happened. I know people sulk but I feel DH probably takes this to an extreme. I do feel he uses this as a control mechanism (i.e. we can't discuss this if I won't talk to you) so I suppose in that sense it is passive aggressive. I have spent the past 7 years doing the cajoling....

Re the counselling, the idea is that we each have an individual session with someone different from the same practice. We then meet up as a four (i.e. me, DH, my counsellor, his counsellor) for a sort of facilitated discussion. I think it sounds like a great structure. I will go even if he won't.

I agree there are two sides to the taxi thing. I know DH doesn't like to be rushed so I could have (should have) dealt with this much better (e.g. by letting the magic number be 8.45 instead). What happened was clouded by the generally poor state of our relationship - I suppose we both might have handled better if things were going smoothly. I bridled against what felt like a controlling strategy on DH's part. However, I do concede that he has a different view. I said to him this morning that we were each upset because we thought the other had behaved badly. Counselling would help us communicate these different view points. He is adamant, however, that he is in the right and my behaviour was unacceptable.

That counselling set up sounds good to me. I like the idea of both speaking individually to a counsellor before getting together.

Was your relationship to dh very different before dd was born? (You needn't obviously answer that here). I would just try to think back to whether this controlling aspect was part of him from the word go or if it is essentially a problem related to readjusting to being a family rather than a couple

Good luck.

He just sounds like such hard work!
This is what kills relationships IMO - his need to be right is greater than his need to have a good relationship with you. He is clearly massively insecure of course, but I'm not sure that helps you much.
I don't know what to suggest, except that you do go to the sessions on your own. I really feel for you.