Advice needed over dp's ex!!

[fifisboys]

To cut a long story short..

I live with my dp and we are engaged to be married next year. He has a 2 year old dd with his ex and she is refusing to let him bring her to meet me.
There is no reason behind it at all, she has even said she has no reason for it, other than she doesn't want her dd to be with me.

I was just wondering if, legally she can dictate who dp can introduce her dd to, and how we go about fighting this.

What makes yout think that I have had bad experiences with men....I have had nice and kind grandfathers, a great father, lovely husband etc.

Maybe my view has come about via a hell of a lot of research?

Arrggghhhh Why are you putting words in my surfermum. Read my freaking posts.

I did not say that a person who loves their children should be incapable of ever again loving anyone else but their child's parent.

It's all about timing.

But whose timings Pramspotter? Yours? Why is yours the only acceptable term? You are of course quite within your rights to live by your own moral compass, but you should not try and impose those same morals on anyone else (morals which, imo, are very dated indeed)

Have I become a euphamism for something .

What I was picking up on was this "A man who loved his family and wanted the best for his kids should be incapable of wanting another woman".

So do you mean incapable of wanting another woman for at least ... what period of time? That's where the difficulty comes. It will vary from person to person. Everyone adjusts to things like this at different rates. Like I said, it's not one size fits all.

And do you think it works both ways? That women should be incapable of wanting another man as well? Because what I don't understand is that the fifi's dp is getting a pasting from some quarters here, yet nothing is being said his ex who has her new partner in situ and in contact with the child. Presumably you think she is showing contempt for her child too?

It's actually quite common to block/disrupt contact when their ex moves on. Of course this type can have new partners but the ex must be mourning and so bereft they either die or live totally broken in poverty. A terrible no no is of course is for they ex to dust themselves off, move on, find someone they can love again and prosper. How dare they not obey the script!!
Samuel Johnson wrote: "A second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience."
So true!!

Anyway begone with the odd sideshow...
Fifi get you and your DP down to a local branch of Families Need Fathers If you cannot get to a branch they have forum online. You could also try this site there is lots of practical help (as opposed to axe to grind ramblings)
Your DP will probably need to invite his ex to mediation first. If that comes to nothing he would be advised to seek a contact order via the family courts. I know nobody wants to take such of course of action but if she wont talk what can your DP do. This controlling behaviour can drag on for ages and needs kicking into touch.
The courts will be of the opinion that DP's ex has no right to dictate who their child should see during dads parenting time, as long as of course there are no welfare issues.
Sorry who've come here for helpful advice and got bogged down in some weird stuff. Follow the links above and you will find friendly understanding people who can help you guys. Best of Luck

Maybe she is blocking her not for revenge but because she thinks she is a horrible woman who is not fit to be around a little 2 year old girl?

IF your ex started dating someone who you felt was absolutely horrid and a danger to children do you have to just accept it and let them have access to your kids?

This may not be about revenge. The mother has a new partner. Maybe she is happy for her xp to have moved on and just wishes it was someone who wouldn't be a bad influence on a little girl?

Eh????

The mother, iirc, has not met the OP. The OP says she was not involved with her DP until after the breakdown of his previous relationship - I can see no reason to doubt her on that.

Pramspotter Why do you think that fifisboys is "a horrible woman who is not fit to be around a little 2 year old girl" and "a bad influence on a little girl"?

Do you know I swear there's and echo, echo, ECHO!!.....in here

toodles off

Oh Pramspotter, I forgot to also ask why you think that fifisboys is also "absolutely horrid and a danger to children"

Quite an important question to answer I think.

Why do you think she isn't?

Surely a divorce shouldn't mean that you can no longer choose who your kids get close too?

Err, because there is NOTHING in fifisboys' posts to indicate anything of the kind. You, on the otherhand, are an entirely different matter.

"Surely a divorce shouldn't mean that you can no longer choose who your kids get close too?"

Newsflash. That is EXACTLY what it means. Both parents have the right to bring the child up in a way they feel is appropriate, provided it's not endangering the child. And ffs, a woman who was a worry would not bebe most unlikely to be anxiously posting on MN asking how to negotiate with her dp's ex so she can get to know his child. That's the action of a decent, concerned, and responsible adult. Not to mention the fact that the mother has never even MET the new stepmother and is trying to avoid doing so, so how on earth is she placed to form a view?

Your child is not your property. I'm startled at how many people fail to comprehend this fact - you have a duty to them, not first dibs on them! They have their own needs and interests, and (agonising as I accept this can be) a good relationship with the other parent and any new dw/dh is pretty high on the list, unless they're toxic. As a parent it's your job to help them achieve this, and to soothe any anxiety about guilt and betrayal they feel.

My mother did this magnificently. My father tried to get us to take sides - and then did exactly the same to my younger half-brothers, when he left their Mum, despite DH and I trying to tackle him on how appalling that was of him. Guess what? As adults, all his kids pretty much despise him for it. Nice harvest to gather in for the future, hey.

Finally, on one level she should be relieved. Plenty of stepmothers are marriage-wreckers, many more resent and exclude stepkids; the loving, inclusive and welcoming type, appearing on the scene post-breakup, should be a godsend. Nobody can replace a parent, but a child of a divorce can gain hugely from loving and involved step-parents - if the adults involved behave like adults.

OP - I think working on meeting her and asking how she wants to handle this is best. Agreed she is being incredibly difficult, but negotiation is surely a better bet than court orders, if at all possible. The latter tends to start a war, with the child the front line.

Waspie, I just wanted to say that I found your post very honest and interesting. I takes a lot of guts to admit to feeling and acting this way;

"By Waspie on Thu 18-Jun-09 12:41:48

When my partner left us I threw up every single barrier and obstacle possible to prevent him seeing our child. Not because it was good for my child but because I hated him so much and was so angry that I wanted him to suffer and feel pain and the way I could do this was to stop him seeing the child he loves. I'm not proud of it but at the time I wasn't really thinking straight."

It sounds like mum is hurting and wants to hurt dad back and is using the one thing he loves most dearly, his child.

My advice would be to;

• Propose family mediation (formally by letter, Mediation will do this).

Dads contact is pitiful. Children have a right to a meaningful relationship with both parents.

Dad needs to get his contact/parenting time progressing upwards. Children benefit from consistent, frequent contact and a few hours every week is not enough to build up a relationship of this child with his/her father.

If it went to Court then he would get more contact, it may be built up slowly, but CAFCASS, a judge/magistrates, hell even the ex's own legal counsel would be recommending more contact.

• Dad should get along to his local Families Need Fathers branch (google on the internet) and contact the local branch chair for some advice.

• Go along with the Mediation process, if it's not going to work or is not suitable, then consider making an application to Court.

• How far away is the wedding? There is NO reason why the child should not be a bridesmaid, dad's new wife is obviously going to be a pretty large fixture in the child's future life. Contact would obviously need to be built up, including overnight staying contact, which is why it is important to tackle this issue sooner rather than later.

It would be a simple matter at Court for dad to request the child is made available so that she can be a bridesmaid, either by requesting during proceedings or making a Specific Issue Order.

I do speak from experience being a local FNF branch chair and having gone through the family court system (not willingly, but due to my ex's intransigence) and have a shared residence order for my daughter.

You're right Yerblurt - Waspie you are a breath of fresh air and I really respect you for your honesty.

What I continue to struggle with .. and I guess I'm not going to get any closer to any sort of understanding because the goal posts seem to keep changing ... is that fifis dp is such an awful man and showing contempt for his child because he is in another relationship so soon after the break up. Yet his ex partner, who is also in another relationship so soon after the break up isn't.

It's not a case of fifi being the stepmother from hell, the ex has said she has no reason for not wanting her to have contact. It's a case of double standards and her having unresolved issues of some sort.

Pramspotter, don't forget there's a woman here who posted for support and advice. She is probably feeling really upset about why her dp's x is being so unreasonable and hostile towards her when she has nothing to base it on. I've been there - it's horrible and you are powerless to change anything until the other woman is willing to change.

How do you think fifi feels being told that it might be because she's "a horrible woman who is not fit to be around a little 2 year old girl" and "a bad influence on a little girl"? I doubt that you'd go on the thread of someone whose husband had jsut left her and tell her maybe it's because she was a cow to him. Have a bit of compassion for fifi.

I am absolultely amazed that anyone thinks a man's parenting abilities and love for his child is solely based on his ability to put up with a desperate, needy, whiny, attention-seeking woman rather than wanting a relationship with someone who is a bit more, you know, mature. Human beings are not property, whether they are children or adults, and if your partner doesn';t want to be in a couple-relationship with you any more you basically have to suck it up and not start using your child as a weapon.

You do not know that the ex's refusal to allow contact with the gf is definitely because she wants to use the child as a pawn. Some people may behave like that but not everyone does. She may very well have reservations about OP as a person. No way to know for sure from this thread. But my gut feeling is that there is more to the story. I am also open to the idea that the ex may just be acting out of jealousy and childishness. It is possible. But my instincts tell me otherwise. But who can say for sure?

If op's partner is already "engaged" when he has a child as young as two then that leads me to believe that OP is merely a temporary thing until he gets sick of shagging her and moves onto the next woman. I'd be willing to be that they won't even be together in 5 years. Just a gut feeling.

Kids don't need people coming in and out of their lives in this way. I have seen children go through their parent's divorce, get attached to mum or dad's new partner and then get their hearts broken when that relationship ends badly. Then mum and dad move onto new partners and the children again get attached to the new partners again only for those relationships to end badly etc etc. It just leads to messed up children with abandonment issues. It's not good.

OP didn't say that her partner cannot see his dd. He can see her anytime it seems. She only said that she herself is not to see the dd. Sounds fair, at least for awhile.

waspie your post was brave.

pramspotter omg - are you for real - my partner worships his son and looks after him beautifully fifty percent of the time - his mother doesnt like me - doesnt change how he feels about his boy. He didnt stop loving his son when he met me either but as a healthy mature adult he needed adult companionship and warmth of his own. As did I, another single parent. Ridiculous.

Thank you Yerblut and Surfermum

Of course this may not be the way the girl's mother is thinking, but I know that I still have days where I think "You're not taking my child out, he's mine damn you, mine!" and I have to regroup and calm down and think that this is what is best for my little boy and that my feelings don't come into it.

I think the OP wants to help her partner establish and maintain a good relationship with his daughter and she wants to be part of his daughter's life too. What is wrong with that? The more love and support a child has the more stable and rounded they become.

My ex and I have managed to work things out between us but the advice of seeking mediation is excellent. It's where we would have ended up if I hadn't knocked some sense into myself first.

"I am not so sure that men really have the ability to love their kids more than they love their dicks."

pramspotter I wonder if you would say that to your DH?! Poor chap!

Pramspotter you have one bizarre view of the world

Oh, dear.... pramspotter - do you know how deluded you sound????

Have you ever read up on PAS??? You really do have all the hallmarks!

"at the moment he is only allowed to see her for 2 hours on a sunday...and thats with her telling him where he can take them..he was supposed to have his dd 3 days a week for 3 hours at a time but she keeps changing it"

Doesn't sound like an arrangement where he can see his child as much as he likes to me.

But yeh, it's way too early for the ex to be in a lasting relationship too, she's obviously just using him for a shag too. Or is it that that rule only applies to fifi's dp too?

Parents (mostly mothers I have to say) really p* me of when they think they "own" a child, just cause it came out of your body does not mean you own it.
Fair play if the other parent is a dead beat that ran off with some slapper then I can see why you could have a reason to be worried about contact.

I think if the EX has a new DP that the child is around she can not object to the child meeting her dads new partner, she is just being a bitch.

I did not see if they were married or not, sadly unmarried dads have little or no rights.
I think getting some advice from the CAB might be helpful

Parents (mostly mothers I have to say) really p* me of when they think they "own" a child, just cause it came out of your body does not mean you own it.
Fair play if the other parent is a dead beat that ran off with some slapper then I can see why you could have a reason to be worried about contact.

I think if the EX has a new DP that the child is around she can not object to the child meeting her dads new partner, she is just being a bitch.

I did not see if they were married or not, sadly unmarried dads have little or no rights.
I think getting some advice from the CAB might be helpful

Pramspotter, I can now understand your position. You aren't reading the post as it is, you're reading one you imagine to be there. Therefore your advice and views are wholly logical and sane, as opposed to two stops up from Dagenham.

For the record, I'm also the product of divorce - Dad is currrently on his 4th wife. I've seen the damage, and mostly it happens when parents refuse to accept that what THEY feel is utterly beside the point compared to what their kids NEED. And what's more, my second stepmother was a total psycho - blocked contact to the point she would threaten to leave, blocked maintenance, said "he promised me he'd never see them or pay for them when we got together" as reasons why we shouldn't see Dad (found this out as an adult, in divorce papers between her and Dad. She was still arguing that this was reasonable.) She'd never met us, at that point. She once called me up - in ENGLAND. From Australia, where they lived - to announce, "you are not a member of this family. This family is me, my husband and our sons." I'd met her once, at that point, and been polite and well behaved because it never occurred to me not to be, as Mum never said anything unpleasant. YET, when they split, and Dad badmouthed her to my brothers, I took him to task. And when one of my brothers asked me how she'd been to us (because Dad's latest wife isn't too great, while his third - the boys' first stepmother - was a total darling we all adored) I just said it had been a very complicated situation but his Mum had definitely done the best she could, which he assumed meant "well". By that point I was an adult in his family who had a duty to promote his good relationships with everyone who cared for him. It stuck in my gullet, tbh, but it was for him, not her.

And not all step parents are bad news. I love my dad's 3rd wife more than I love him. She is a wonderful person, she is a godsend in all our lives, and none of us regret her presence in them at all - the polar opposite, in fact. You are acting as if one size fits all. It does not. A mother who has no relationships until her kids get to Uni, may well be a huge, painful burden for those kids, because the sacrifice would be killer for them emotionally. You just can't control every variable, in life - including who your ex-partner decides to marry.