"If you hit me again you will regret it" - is this normal?

[DaySleeper]

Am a regular poster but have name changed as DH knows my usual nick name. Sorry this is long but background is required. DH and I have been married for nearly 5 years. We have DD, aged 7.5 months. We live in England but are not from here and family and old friends are a long way away. DH is a complex character; people who meet him socially would think he is the most chilled out guy ever. Actually, there is a dark and quite strange side to him that I don't understand and which to be honest scares me. He doesn't fly into tempers, quite the opposite. If we ever argue he will just withdraw into silence, like a stone. This used to really upset me and I'd be in floods of tears trying to get him to stop shutting me out. Now I just wait for it to pass. I guess a lot of men deal with conflict like that.

But the darkness, the weirdness, can be best illustrated by something that happened about 4 years ago. We were on a flight back from a holiday destination where we'd had a really lovely week. We'd had a fight on the last day because I had been careless in how I packed some of our diving equipment. On the plane he was still angry. 3 hours into the flight he burst into tears (first time before and since) and said he had to talk to me about something, he felt so bad about it. I prepared myself to hear him say he was having an affair (not that I suspected anything, it's just the obvious thing that sprang to mind). I was shocked by what he did say: that he thought I should have a nose job. He was crying his eyes out and saying "I'm sorry, I feel so bad to say this but I really think you should have a nose job". As context, I'm actually fairly attractive (although I definitely have what I like to think of as a Roman nose!) and the only people I told about this episode (my sis and my best friend) were pretty freaked out about it. About 3 years later DH self-diagnosed some psychological disorder where you become fixated on a physical feature. He saw a psychiatrist once but nothing seemed to come of it. He thinks he's fine, maintains he loves me, finds me attractive etc. The episode still resonates for me though. It sounds crazy but in my lower moments I looked on the internet to see what would be involved in rhinoplasty as I thought maybe it would help. Needless to say there is no way I'm getting this done though.

Now DH has never come even remotely close to hitting me but he is a big guy who lifts weights and works out on a punching bag most days and has an intimidating physical presence. He also snores. Last night, after a nice dinner and evening together, he fell asleep and started to snore. I shook his shoulder and asked him to roll over (v normal going to sleep routine for us). I then dozed and drifted for maybe an hour. I woke up when I felt DH had started tossing and turning quite violently in bed. I thought he must be sick and said "are you ok baby?". He said "I'm angry at you for hitting me in the head". I was gobsmacked, I hadn't - not that I was aware of, maybe brushed his head in my sleep, I don't know. But hitting?? No way. DH then said "If you hit me in the head again, I'm going to hit you." I'm now fully awake, shocked. I said "are you threatening me?". He said, "yes, if you hit me again you'll regret it." At that point I got out of bed and went to "sleep" on the couch. I couldn't sleep because I could hear DH was awake and I felt scared he was going to attack me. Maybe irrational. I was freaking out.

This morning I've gone to work without speaking to him and we are due to meet at something at 11.30. I emailed him, quite cool and formal saying "are you still coming, please let me know". He emailed back saying "only if you don't hit me again." I guess trying to make light of it.

Apart from this stuff DH is fine - we have long term conflict between him and my parents, but there is fault on both sides. He is a good father, we usually get along fine (we have generally had a good sex life but it has definitely been affected by the arrival of DD and me being back at work full time), he helps out around the house, is usually affectionate. I am the main breadwinner by quite a long way. I earn maybe 4 or 5 times what he does.

Please tell me what you make of my situation. Is my DH normal?

I think dittany is right about the letter. Don?t give it to him.
Also, I would be really concerned that his change of heart is just because he is aware you have changed towards him, so once again he is trying to manipulate you. This is pretty normal in abusive relationships . As others have said, I would suggest that because he can feel his power and control over you slipping away, he is trying any tactic to get you back under his power again. Make no mistake, this is all about power and control.

He might be nice tonight and tomorrow, but I would be VERY surprised if it lasted. He is probably incapable of normal behaviour on a long term basis.

From my own experience, I remember when my ex would try and be nice when he saw me gaining strength. I wanted to believe SO badly that it was all going to be ok so I would crumble. It made the world so much better to believe that everything was fine. Not only was he nice to me for a while, but it meant I got a decent nights sleep (no worrying) and I regained some self respect as I was able to delude myself for a bit that I had a normal functioning relationship.

I was wrong. The bad man always came back eventually and from what I have read and researched in the years since, the bad man usually does come back.

I am not suggesting that your situation or your relationship is the same as mine was, but, most abusive men behave in similar ways, and none of them are that different. I really doubt your DH will change and I worry for you (and your DD) if you give him the benefit of the doubt, give him back control and stay.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but I am worried about you and your DD. I have never reacted so strongly to a thread on MN. Your DH sounds leagues ahead of my ex in terms of menace and calculation.

I agree with those who suggest you carry on with your legal and relate appointments. Also, maybe ask your parents to come and stay. My family are all in Oz and Singapore and although I didn't have a child at the time - so things were not as complex as for you - I still felt very isolated and frightened leaving. I waited until M & D were in London before I went.

Sorry this is so long. Most of all good luck

Thank you so much everyone for your posts. I'm so sorry that this brings back so many bad memories for people and I'm really grateful that you take the time to share your thoughts on what are painful and personal topics. Thank you.

I took on board what most people ended up saying about not giving DH the letter and about letting him do the talking (thanks Dittany). The thing is, mrsboogie's comment about him being on the back foot turned out to be right. He didn't really know what to say and was clearly wondering where I was, I guess able to sense some change.

I felt quite overwhelmed and at risk of getting lost when embarking on some pretty big topics for us, so I ended up taking a bit of a halfway house approach: I didn't give DH the letter but I did end up reading it out to him. I agree with what Olympe and others said about the letter revealing that I have been the victim but I just thought, sod it: I want to know that I've told him exactly how I feel. He was completely silent and still while I read to him and when I finished, he said nothing for about a minute. Then he said: I can't argue with anything you've said. You're right. I am sorry. He had tears in his eyes. I could be cynical and say that maybe he was trying to take me by surprise. He did. But not too much- I was prepared for anything.

Anyway, we talked for an hour or two and then I realised I felt so exhausted I wanted to stop for the night. No resolutions or anything, but I felt that I got my views out there and he was trying to explore why he acts as he does. I'm not sure that he can control it. That's something I've got to consider. There will be a lot more talking this week.

I am still seeing the solicitor tomorrow and Relate on Wednesday, and I'm looking forward to both. I feel that every day my thinking becomes clearer. It's not linear but it feels like progress. DH is going away for 3 days, Thurs, Fri and Sat, and I'm looking forward to that too. My mum is thinking of coming to England for a week which would be fantastic, depending on how things go. So no answers, but I feel like whatever the outcome is I am taking my situation in hand for the first time.

Sorrytonamechange - I really appreciate your posts. My parents will come and stay if I need them and as you would know, that is a massive blessing. I would also feel very isolated leaving without their support.

I feel so drained that I have to go to bed. I've reached a stage where my head won't process anything further until it has spent some time on a pillow.

this is progress, and not such a bad thing that no resolution reached at this point. Better that he has time to think about what has come out. Good that he is going away also for a few days. He might achieve clarity and maybe realise himself that he needs help.

sleep well xx

Hi Daysleeper. When I read this thread I actually wondered if you were going out with an ex of mine, as your H sounds so similar it's uncanny! I shall relate a bit of my story with him here because I think the conclusion will help you. Not comfort you, but give you an insight. It's a bit of a waffle to explain, but please bear with me

I was my Ex for about a year, but I was totally messed up in no time by his weird behaviour, strange moods, long silences over nothing that could go on for up to a week, clamming up and acting like I was constantly insulting and bullying him and like he was a victim - for ex., something as utterly mundane as me saying, 'could you pass me a pen? No, not the blue one, the black one please', would result in sulking and a long, self-righteous lecture about how I was weird and obsessive and how my behaviour was appalling and all I tried to do was constantly 'destroy' him and 'break him down' with my incessant 'cruelty'! He also accused me now and then of saying and doing things I just hadn't done. Sometimes we could be watching tv in silence and he'd shout 'how DARE you!' and insist I'd just said something awful and he truly believed he had heard it and I was being 'mental' to deny it. He also used to insist I'd done things at home when I was at work and could prove I hadn't been home, yet he 'knew' he was right. He could be confronted with 100% rocksolid proof he was wrong and he just acted like everyone else was ganging up on him so they didn't have to admit to the 'truth' of him being treated badly. The worst thing was that he truly, genuinely believed everything and was very hurt all the time. I realised quickly he had a mental problem and on the very same night I was going to leave him, I got a panicked phone call from my brother - he had befriended a girl at uni and had been chatting about their families. My ex had a very unusual surname and this girl had the same one, and jokingly my brother asked if she was related to 'Ex's Name'. She laughed and said, yes, she had an Uncle called that. Still joking, my brother had shown her a picture of me and the Ex together. Apparently, her face went white and she started jibbering 'ring her and tell her to leave him NOW! He's completely mad!' :0 She then explained that the family had been very worried about his behaviour since his teens and she knew he had had a lot of psychiatric testing and evaluation but didn't know the specifics.

I did leave him and he had some sort of 'incident' at work where the police were called and he had to have psychiatric evaluation. I found out from this niece that the assessment was that he had an 'Atypical Schizoid Personality Disorder' with mild Asperger's and as part of the Schizoid-ness, suffered what is called episodes of 'brief reactive psychosis' - THIS is exactly the sort of thing your H is having when he insists you hit him - he either imagined it or dreamed it and he because he lives in his own inner world so much, he can't distinguish 'HIS reality' (where he imagined you hitting him' and actual reality, where you didn't.

I read up a lot about Schizoid probs and although I'm obviously no therapist, it really does sound like your H has aspects of it - the weirdness, the shutting himself off, the acting like HE'S the victim, genuinely believing things have been done or said that clearly haven't, and so on. People can have quite serious problems like this can and do appear basically 'normal' and hold down jobs, etc., but with this problem, it's only when they're alone with someone that it becomes obvious that they're deeply but subtly 'odd', because they can put on a public face or act because that's interaction on a shallow level and doesn't require much effort or personality, but they can't hide their basic inabilities to cope with others, to relate with others, to not live in their own inner world and to cope with reality. Does this sound familiar?

But please bear in mind this: if your H does have some sort of mental health problem, whatever it is, the fact that he might not realise what he's doing is abusive and unfair does not stop it being abusive and unfair - and that you need to get out, especially for your child's sake. She could even start picking up his odd ways of behaviour - or he could start traumatising her with his weirdness.

Hope all this doesn't scare you, but I know what it's like to be so worn down with the weirdness that you can't do anything about it, but you MUST! Relate could be a good start, but he needs counselling for his own sake.

Sorry for writing such an essay, but your story touched such a nerve with me that I had to reach out to you. Hope this all helps

Good luck Daysleeper. I'm still following your thread and although I have no wonderful advice for you I think you are getting stronger each day and doing really well!

Keep your strength you are a great lady!

Hello again daysleeper. It sounds as though you have had some really good discussions with your Dh and I'm glad for you.

Have you considered getting rid of the letter now that you have read it to him? Or at least hiding it from him (maybe you want to take it to the counsellor?) I just wonder if maybe it has served a lot of its purpose now in enabling you to clarify your thoughts and to get through to him . It could be quite damaging for him to find at a later stage, when things might have improved. Or for him to find soon when it might stoke up fury in him.

Hi everyone, and thank you again to everyone has posted. I had a really useful meeting with a family solicitor today. Grammaticus, I think you said earlier in this thread that it was important to be the one taking care of day to day arrangements. The solicitor today said she was satisfied that it was very clear that I'm the primary carer and I just need to keep an eye on that. She said that as the primary carer and with such a young child then, if things did end up in court, it would be very unlikely that I would not end up with DD living with me. That was very reassuring, just as part of my current "fact gathering" exercise where I'm trying to work out what's what. She had lots of other useful advice as well. Tomorrow is the counsellor, and that will also be interesting. (NB. just on the letter - yes, I've taken it back into work with me so it is is safe; it will be useful for me to look at in the future, but not for DH to find. I'm also going to show it to the counsellor.)

WDBH - thanks so much for sharing your story. It sounds like you had a really tough experience. I'm glad you got out of it.

mrsboogie, dittany and MHE - thanks for following this thread and your support. Dittany, I meant to say last night that I did feel very angry at what had happened once I wrote it all down. In a way, it hit me most when DH sort of put his hands up and said "yes, I accept I've done all of that and it was wrong". My immediate internal reaction was "well why the hell have you been doing it then you total tosser!" sorry about the language Of course I'm also angry at myself for putting up with the treatment but I'm not beating myself up about that. I've got enough to be getting on with as it is....

Just read wedidn'tburnhim's post and it sort of clarifies something I was trying to say the other night but wasn't clear on because I was really tired.I have expereinec of DV,and if I had written down,as you have,a list of my ex boyfriend's behaviours,long before the violence got serious anyone with experience of DV would have said "get out,he will get violent" as he was a textbook case.However when I read your post alarm bells rang but something was different,that is why in my first message I wrote that I though he had mental health issues.In my second posting I tried to express how sinister i found your messages, but the above post sums it up for me really.I don't think your Dh is a classic manipulative wife beater,I do think he has a mental health problem,and so what frightens me is not the thought that he might beat you up,more that he might seem normal one day and the next shoot every member of his family,or all the people walking down his street.That is the kind of scary i found your post.He truly does sound as though he needs psychiatric help and assessment.He is delusional and that is the dangerous bit.Please try and talk to someone about his mental health, and stay safe.

New to this thread, have been following and I would like to echo hellymelly inasmuch as going to your gp and saying something about this to her/him.
My ex was a little like yours with the stating things had happened and being convinced that they had happened or had been said as fact (what a mindfuck)
So glad I went to see my gp to have it on record that I was scared becasue he threatened to kill himself, me and 'I don't know what I'll do about the children'
Chilling at the time.

I am now out of that relationship, but he will always maintain the things he says are facts.

Good luck with your factfinding mission and stay strong you are doing the right thing for your family in finding help.

DAYSLEEPER... You sound exactly how i felt in that long letter to your DH...I felt likt that with my ExDP... he made me feel awful....but i think i loved him...
In the end after 8 years we split....i would have gone mental or got beaten up in the end if i had stayed.
I do hope things get better and you can work it out. GOOD LUCK. xx

I've lurked on this thread and haven't read it for a couple of days. Just started at the list/letter that DS has written and my immediate gut reaction was "run as fast as you can in the other direction".

I would be very, very scared indeed, both for myself and for my LO. I agree with people who've said that this is a mental health issue rather than a calculated thing.

Sorry, I realise that this isn't much help to you DS but take good care of your and your DD....

How are you doing today Daysleeper? Your DH is away today for a couple of days isn't he?

I hope you're finding some time to relax and look after you !

How did the counselling go today?

Hi everyone, thanks so much for following up on me. Dittany - you're right about the anger; used in the right way it can be constructive and a force for good (i.e. moving things forward). DH is not away until Friday MHE - he is leaving early Friday am. BB - the counselling was really good, very helpful. The counsellor's initial view was that DH and I would benefit from individual counselling and should then evaluate after that. She was fairly guarded about whether we should pursue couples' counselling - she said we should look at that depending on how we go individually. I suppose she means how satisfied I am about whether DH has made progress. I'm not sure how that will go. My counsellor recommended that DH use a separate counsellor, and then we use someone new again should we decide to go down the couples' counselling route. I found the session really interesting; she had some good questions for me as to how I've responded to DH's behaviour and they are things I'd like to understand and face up to.

It has been such an exhausting week or so. More than exhausting, utterly draining. I don't know how I've managed to go to work and somehow go through the motions of being there. But I feel ok, I feel like I'm sort of getting myself together. I think that taking the external steps like speaking to my Mum, seeing the lawyer, seeing the counsellor are giving me a huge momentum. I just have to keep it up....

Thank you everyone.

I should also say that I've talked to DH about the counselling. He has agreed that he will go and see someone, which is major progress for him. The solicitor I saw yesterday gave me the name of someone who is not a Relate counsellor but is a psychoanalyst. DH says he will see this person (I didn't tell him where I got the name). I know that some people will be concerned about this but I want to pursue that option, I feel it is the right thing for me. If I'm not happy with how that process goes then I have a clear idea about how to end things with DH. I guess I just feel that I need to know that I've given it everything. I've talked to Mum about it and even she agrees it is the right thing to do, and she's been massively worried this week. Poor Mum. I feel ok thought. Quite calm. More in control than I have for a long time. Thank you.

wow daysleeper you have done so much and handled it so well in the short time since you posted the first post on this thread - it should be an inspiration to other woman with serious problems in their relationships.

It isn't for us to second guess your choices - you must do what you think is right and only you know the reality of your situation.

I hope the counselling works out for both of you and, whatever happens, that you soon arrive at the happy life you and your child deserve.

I agree with Mrsboogie, you really are an inspiration. Also, you and only you can decide what is right in your life for you and your child. I truly hope that life works out well for you daysleeper and I'm sure it will as you seem like the sort of woman who gives everything your all.

Best wishes x

I could cry reading your last two posts, DS. You're doing so well. I hope you get a bit of rest and peace of the next couple of days. Keep looking after yourself well.

I hope the counselling works for you DS. I really think it will, because you are so obviously prepared to put in the work that counselling requires. Many people underestimate the hard work that it involves I think, but I don't think you do. I'm delighted that your DH is going to see the psychoanalyst, too. Whether you end up together or apart, I'm sure things will be better between you as a result of what you have decided to do.

I salute you.

Your professionally qualified internet loon,

Grammaticus

(but if course, I could just be a bored 14 year old with a mature writing style, couldn't I )

Oh thanks everyone. I don't feel like an inspiration, more like something that has been comprehensively run over by a truck! DH is still going away tomorrow and I'm looking forward to that in a positive way- as in, the last 10 days have been so exhausting that I'm relishing the thought of some time for just DD and me. As I keep saying, the MN crew has played a massive part in how the last week or so has gone for me so thank you. Grammaticus- whether you're 14 or 400, you have been fabulous!

Hi DS, just wondering how you are getting on?

Thanks for checking up on me macherie. I'm ok, I think. It's ups and downs at the moment. The weekend was terrible but we ended up having a huge row which is very rare for us because of DH's stonewalling habit. But it cleared the air a bit. We are both seeing counsellors, separately though so far. DH has been a lot better; I think the events of the last few weeks have shocked him a bit. Some days I think things will work out for us, other days I think it's hopeless. But I'm ok. One of the main issues I now face is that I took such a huge emotional step away from DH when I started this thread a few weeks ago (not because of starting the thread as such, just all the thinking I did as a result of it). I'm not sure whether there's a way back from there. One day at a time I guess. It has been great being able to speak to mum and my sister about this- just having that outlet has made a big difference.

Hi daysleeper, this is mumsnet at its best.
I posted last year about some issues I had and never got one reply that i was expecting and was urged to go for 'professional help' which as a result of this board I did.
It saved my relationship and basically changed my outlook on a lot of things.

I hope you can have the same positive change, things are never perfect, but their they're a hell of a lot better.