"If you hit me again you will regret it" - is this normal?

[DaySleeper]

Am a regular poster but have name changed as DH knows my usual nick name. Sorry this is long but background is required. DH and I have been married for nearly 5 years. We have DD, aged 7.5 months. We live in England but are not from here and family and old friends are a long way away. DH is a complex character; people who meet him socially would think he is the most chilled out guy ever. Actually, there is a dark and quite strange side to him that I don't understand and which to be honest scares me. He doesn't fly into tempers, quite the opposite. If we ever argue he will just withdraw into silence, like a stone. This used to really upset me and I'd be in floods of tears trying to get him to stop shutting me out. Now I just wait for it to pass. I guess a lot of men deal with conflict like that.

But the darkness, the weirdness, can be best illustrated by something that happened about 4 years ago. We were on a flight back from a holiday destination where we'd had a really lovely week. We'd had a fight on the last day because I had been careless in how I packed some of our diving equipment. On the plane he was still angry. 3 hours into the flight he burst into tears (first time before and since) and said he had to talk to me about something, he felt so bad about it. I prepared myself to hear him say he was having an affair (not that I suspected anything, it's just the obvious thing that sprang to mind). I was shocked by what he did say: that he thought I should have a nose job. He was crying his eyes out and saying "I'm sorry, I feel so bad to say this but I really think you should have a nose job". As context, I'm actually fairly attractive (although I definitely have what I like to think of as a Roman nose!) and the only people I told about this episode (my sis and my best friend) were pretty freaked out about it. About 3 years later DH self-diagnosed some psychological disorder where you become fixated on a physical feature. He saw a psychiatrist once but nothing seemed to come of it. He thinks he's fine, maintains he loves me, finds me attractive etc. The episode still resonates for me though. It sounds crazy but in my lower moments I looked on the internet to see what would be involved in rhinoplasty as I thought maybe it would help. Needless to say there is no way I'm getting this done though.

Now DH has never come even remotely close to hitting me but he is a big guy who lifts weights and works out on a punching bag most days and has an intimidating physical presence. He also snores. Last night, after a nice dinner and evening together, he fell asleep and started to snore. I shook his shoulder and asked him to roll over (v normal going to sleep routine for us). I then dozed and drifted for maybe an hour. I woke up when I felt DH had started tossing and turning quite violently in bed. I thought he must be sick and said "are you ok baby?". He said "I'm angry at you for hitting me in the head". I was gobsmacked, I hadn't - not that I was aware of, maybe brushed his head in my sleep, I don't know. But hitting?? No way. DH then said "If you hit me in the head again, I'm going to hit you." I'm now fully awake, shocked. I said "are you threatening me?". He said, "yes, if you hit me again you'll regret it." At that point I got out of bed and went to "sleep" on the couch. I couldn't sleep because I could hear DH was awake and I felt scared he was going to attack me. Maybe irrational. I was freaking out.

This morning I've gone to work without speaking to him and we are due to meet at something at 11.30. I emailed him, quite cool and formal saying "are you still coming, please let me know". He emailed back saying "only if you don't hit me again." I guess trying to make light of it.

Apart from this stuff DH is fine - we have long term conflict between him and my parents, but there is fault on both sides. He is a good father, we usually get along fine (we have generally had a good sex life but it has definitely been affected by the arrival of DD and me being back at work full time), he helps out around the house, is usually affectionate. I am the main breadwinner by quite a long way. I earn maybe 4 or 5 times what he does.

Please tell me what you make of my situation. Is my DH normal?

Your DH needs proper psychotherapy to get in touch with his deeply repressed feelings. But I think you know that already.

But I dont think Daysleeper and her dd should stick around while he has his therapy. Therapy will be a long process, will it not, and not necessarily an easy process either.

Just wanted to say you sound a completely fabulous person, you've only just become a mum AND you're the breadwinner, thank goodness for that because you will be absolutely fine as long as you keep your head clear and your self confidence on a reasonable keel.

Many women who have good professional lives continue staying in abusive relationships (like this) and cannot escape from them because their self worth has gone and they feel guilty.

So they take the blame, doubt themselves and think if they behave better their dh/p will behave better too and they can all then have a happy family life.

But it is an illusion. Be clear that this man, you and your dd will never be a happy family.

If you stay you'll need mental health training/ coping mechanisms or he'll do your head in surprisingly quickly and you have already got a huge amount to deal with, so forget that.

Your dd in a few months will catch on to the strange way he treats you and will think it is normal. She will then, if you don't leave, think this is how daddies behave and will be far more likely to choose an abusive dh/p too as these things are self perpetuating.

The situation is completely toxic for your dd's emotional and physical wellbeing, let alone yours.

There is only one way to go and you're on the right path so well done and big hug and keep us posted.

Have read this through and feel chilled. His behaviour points to a mental disturbance such as a personality disorder and he is certainly a man capable of hurting you, and it sounds like he has the desire to. Abusive men do not believe that they are responsible for their abusive behaviour - and he has told you that you are in control of whether he hits you or not. I can't tell you how frightening that sounds to an outsider. You believe he would never hit you, but so do countless other women, until he does.

Unfortunately, therapy very rarely works on abusers. What usually happens is they become better at disguising their abuse and blaming it on their victims. Couples counselling is no good at all for abuse situations, because the whole premise of couple-counselling is that the couple are equally to blame and must both make an effort - in an abuse situation the ABUSER is the one to blame, end of.
DS you have to get out of this very dangerous relationship. Please don't feel that you owe this man anything. He doesn't think he owes you anything. He doesn't actually think you are a person at all: you're a toy/appliance/'scientific experiment' to him. And he thinks exactly the same about your DD.

Agree totally with QS

The link I posted earlier had some insights into these people.

I have had to deal with these half-humans all my life, and now at 50 it is really showing its effect on me and my children.

DO NOT go anywhere near ANY kind of couples counselling.

Get out while you and your children are still young.

Don't leave to so long that its too late for you, as it is for me now sadly.

This is not your fault and you cannot fix it.

xxxx

you may find this link helpful

thepsychopath.freeforums.org/index.php

And also...it may be interesting to have a think about what your parents were like.

Us ACONs / ACOPs (Adult Children of Narcissists/ Psychopaths), have been trained from birth to be the supply for these 'people'.

This again is NOT your fault, but something to have a think about.

xxx

Daysleeper, I am very interested in CremeEgg's professional opinion, and also the perspective SolidGoldBrass gives.

I'm no expert on anything legal, but imagine that if your dd was born here and has a UK passport, it would be harder for him to take her to Australia, if that's a possibility at all. But of course all that is for your solicitor.

tbh the way you describe his behaviour sends chills through me, and I am hardly EVER one to be suggesting that people leave before exploring every option of reconciliation.

I've got chills aswell and I live with an abuser, who I'm actually not really scared of because he's such a pathetic, backward specimen.

Daysleeper, I'm so glad you've hidden your DDs passport. I too have got chills reading your descriptions of your H.

Do you have friends or family you could go to if you needed?

Oh yes I know you are planning to go to relate alone, but beware of couples counselling at all - in abusive situations it makes things worse - the abuser scales up the abuse often as a result of things the victim has said in the safety of the session - not to mention twisting and manipulating the therapist and causing greater damage to the victim's self-esteem and belief.

agree with others who've suggested psychotherapy. I think individually would be much better in your situation - it may be that it's wiser for you to seek counselling first as it will clarify exactly how you feel and where you want to go from here - he is in need of a long course of psychotherapy and may get worse before getting "better". It sounds like he may have grown up with very low self-esteem, insufficient attachment and a narcissistic tendencied parent - all adds up to inability to have ahealthy emotional relationship in later life.

I wouldn't recomment Cognitive behavioural therapy for either of you as I think the issues are deep-rooted for your DH and he needs something longer-term like Person-Centred or Gestalt counselling.

I think people may be taking it out of proportion... He was maybe just having an odd dream....

Relate will see you on your own, though, will they not?

I also believe that Relate will not counsel couples where they believe the relationship is abusive.

Can you go on your own and explain what is happening - they may support you to decide what to do and how best to go about it, but I don't know.

I agree that couples counselling WITH him sounds very disadvantageous.

Based on his uncompromising 'tit for tat' barging, refusing to speak behaviour, I am not sure how he will behave once he realises that you are 'against him' and 'not on his side' - i.e are taking independent advice and / or action.

But Undermilkwood, even if he was having an odd dream on that occasion, he is not acting 'normally' or lovingly towards the OP. At best he's being a complete twunt, at worst it's more sinister.

Hi everyone, sorry I've been a bit quiet on here today. Work has been busy, which in many ways is a good thing.

I find it hard to look at DH's behaviour as abusive (although becstarlitsea's post about ambient abuse rang a few bells). I can see, though, why people are worried that it is abusive. It looks bad when you describe it in print. I veer from wondering whether he is in control and manipulating me (I've looked at gaslighting now) to thinking that it is more a case of him having some fairly major issues to work through (and not necessarily being in control of himself as a result).

DH is currently maintaining that he is deeply upset with me because I've made criticisms of him that relate to past behaviour (i.e. mentioning his anger issues). He says he feels betrayed by me because I've let him carry on his behaviour without constantly pointing out that his anger and hostility is unpleasant and hard to deal with. He says I haven't been honest and now I've thrown it back in his face. In some ways, I can see his point. I should have spoken out. But I feel I have no voice with him. When I do criticise him, he instantly goes into stonewalling mode or finds another way of refusing to engage with me. I anticipate his bad reaction and say nothing. It's a bad cycle.

I'm hoping that seeing a counsellor by myself on Wednesday will help me get some perspective on what is happening. I've also now arranged a meeting with a family lawyer on Tuesday, which I'm looking forward to as I'll feel better (I think) once I understand how some of the legalities might work.

I'm not sure what our outcome is going to be. I'm so exhausted with thinking about all of this, and giving DD the love and attention she needs plus trying to do a halfway decent job at work, that I should be relieved that it's nearly the weekend. But I'm dreading it. Two days is an awfully long time to spend together with things as they are.

Undermilkwood - I don't know whether DH has some of the psychological issues that people have helpfully suggested, I really don't. Nor do I know whether he is really an abuser. But I can honestly say that it's not just a case of him having a strange dream. I wish it was.

Blu - "uncompromising" is exactly the word to describe DH's behaviour and that's why I can't see couples counselling helping us (leaving aside the question of whether there are deeper psychological issues that need to be resolved). He has his tit for tat model for all human interaction and almost can't see that there could be any shades of grey around that.

Thanks everyone for the continued support.

he says you "let him carry on his behaviour without constantly pointing out "

ugh classic abusive behaviour - turning his behaviour round to being your fault....

i had that too "but if you had told me i wouldnt have done it" "but i did it because you made me stressed"

please tell everything to your counsellor and i hope s/he sees it for what it is and helps you make any decisions.

DS: sorry but he is a textbook abuser. Unfortunately, people of his personality type are very good at presenting themselves as 'special' and 'different' and implying constantly that they only behave unreasonably because you 'wind them up' or 'disappoint' them.
Low self-esteem, my arse, by the way. What he has is a massive sense of entitlement to getting his own way, to being free from criticism, to being more important than other people.
Another classic tactic is telling you that he's changed, or will change, then continuing to abuse you while telling you that you are not giving him enough credit for trying to change ie that you must continue to moderate your behaviour, obey him and indulge him (the main reason why couples counselling is so disastrous in abuse situations: it is not your job to give into him all the time in order to stop him getting angry. It's up to him to control his behaviour, and to STOP ABUSING YOU.)

Can you maybe go away for the weekend so you don't have to put up with this environment? Looks like being a nice weekend, can you and DD go and stay with friends, or go camping, or anything?

You will no doubt look back in a year's time and wonder what you were ever doing with him - it is so hard to end a relationship though and especially when children are involved. Mind you, in this case sounds like all the more reason. I hope you are doing ok and getting support from someone in RL?

Sorry but he is an abuser. I can sense the atmosphere through your writing, and it's haunting me. Not all abusers are the screaming in your face breaking furniture type. Read Lundy Bancroft Why Does he do That. I read it cover to cover.

Are you still in love with him, Daysleeper? Do you think? Or maybe you can answer yes or no with no hesitation. (not everyone can!)

There is so much that is scarey about him DS. When you described him crying before telling you to get a nose job, that was such a classic sociopath behaviour - a big cry for pity to manipulate you while simultaneously chipping away at your self-esteem. And you saying that he 'maintains he's deeply upset' now. Oh they do this, the . 'I'm so unhappy, I'm so miserable, you've made me so unhappy, and that's why it's your fault that I'm screwing with your mind, and why you should pity me while I do it'. Bah.

I'm going away now because I find it too disturbing, frankly. I'm sure there are others here who can support you who might have more experience/tolerance for terrifying stories than I do. I wish you a happier future from the bottom of my heart.