"If you hit me again you will regret it" - is this normal?

[DaySleeper]

Am a regular poster but have name changed as DH knows my usual nick name. Sorry this is long but background is required. DH and I have been married for nearly 5 years. We have DD, aged 7.5 months. We live in England but are not from here and family and old friends are a long way away. DH is a complex character; people who meet him socially would think he is the most chilled out guy ever. Actually, there is a dark and quite strange side to him that I don't understand and which to be honest scares me. He doesn't fly into tempers, quite the opposite. If we ever argue he will just withdraw into silence, like a stone. This used to really upset me and I'd be in floods of tears trying to get him to stop shutting me out. Now I just wait for it to pass. I guess a lot of men deal with conflict like that.

But the darkness, the weirdness, can be best illustrated by something that happened about 4 years ago. We were on a flight back from a holiday destination where we'd had a really lovely week. We'd had a fight on the last day because I had been careless in how I packed some of our diving equipment. On the plane he was still angry. 3 hours into the flight he burst into tears (first time before and since) and said he had to talk to me about something, he felt so bad about it. I prepared myself to hear him say he was having an affair (not that I suspected anything, it's just the obvious thing that sprang to mind). I was shocked by what he did say: that he thought I should have a nose job. He was crying his eyes out and saying "I'm sorry, I feel so bad to say this but I really think you should have a nose job". As context, I'm actually fairly attractive (although I definitely have what I like to think of as a Roman nose!) and the only people I told about this episode (my sis and my best friend) were pretty freaked out about it. About 3 years later DH self-diagnosed some psychological disorder where you become fixated on a physical feature. He saw a psychiatrist once but nothing seemed to come of it. He thinks he's fine, maintains he loves me, finds me attractive etc. The episode still resonates for me though. It sounds crazy but in my lower moments I looked on the internet to see what would be involved in rhinoplasty as I thought maybe it would help. Needless to say there is no way I'm getting this done though.

Now DH has never come even remotely close to hitting me but he is a big guy who lifts weights and works out on a punching bag most days and has an intimidating physical presence. He also snores. Last night, after a nice dinner and evening together, he fell asleep and started to snore. I shook his shoulder and asked him to roll over (v normal going to sleep routine for us). I then dozed and drifted for maybe an hour. I woke up when I felt DH had started tossing and turning quite violently in bed. I thought he must be sick and said "are you ok baby?". He said "I'm angry at you for hitting me in the head". I was gobsmacked, I hadn't - not that I was aware of, maybe brushed his head in my sleep, I don't know. But hitting?? No way. DH then said "If you hit me in the head again, I'm going to hit you." I'm now fully awake, shocked. I said "are you threatening me?". He said, "yes, if you hit me again you'll regret it." At that point I got out of bed and went to "sleep" on the couch. I couldn't sleep because I could hear DH was awake and I felt scared he was going to attack me. Maybe irrational. I was freaking out.

This morning I've gone to work without speaking to him and we are due to meet at something at 11.30. I emailed him, quite cool and formal saying "are you still coming, please let me know". He emailed back saying "only if you don't hit me again." I guess trying to make light of it.

Apart from this stuff DH is fine - we have long term conflict between him and my parents, but there is fault on both sides. He is a good father, we usually get along fine (we have generally had a good sex life but it has definitely been affected by the arrival of DD and me being back at work full time), he helps out around the house, is usually affectionate. I am the main breadwinner by quite a long way. I earn maybe 4 or 5 times what he does.

Please tell me what you make of my situation. Is my DH normal?

In one of your earlier posts say that he knows your MN name, so are you worried that he would check up on you on this site? If so, maybe you could ask MN HQ to delete this thread. He may be looking to see if you have posted anything and he may recognise the thread title even though you have name changed. Then, tomorrow, I'd make and appointment to see a lawyer.

I am loathe to tell you what to do (even though I just did, sorry) you have to be so careful in your situation and I wouldn't want to be responsible for advising you to do something that could end badly - but, if I was in your shoes, I would be planning a way to leave. For your sake and for your DD?s. And I would do it secretly and without regard to cost and what you may lose. I wouldn't tell him. I wouldn't give him the chance to persuade you otherwise. I would clinically put everything into place and just go.

I am so sorry for you that you are in this horrible situation, but as others have said, you feel scared for a reason. Trust your instincts. If you leave and find out you were wrong about him, you can always make a go of things again later. However, in the meantime, if I was in your situation, I would want to find a way to protect myself and my daughter.

Sorry if this is a bit rambly , but it is late and I am tired.

This is very, very scary. This man is extremely dangerous. He is setting you up. He is going to start hitting you. This is all pretty textbook stuff, the telling you you are mad, the ignoring you to 'punish' you until you are desperately pleading for forgiveness and acknowledgement. The fact that you are so worried about losing custody of your DD to a violent sociopath speaks volumes. You will not lose custody of her. This is a man who barges people out of the way in the street, who is only a step or two away from an assault charge from someone else. Contact Women's Aid, get some legal advice and work on getting out of there.

Daysleeper, I entirely agree with SolidGoldBrass.

My DH has a sleep disorder. He snores heavily and rarely falls into a deep sleep. The slightest touch can have him sitting bolt upright in bed and shouting, thinking he is being attacked.

During our first ever night together at my place, he leapt out of bed 20 minutes after he'd nodded off (I was still awake) and pulled the duvet off the bed, yelling that the bed was on fire. He REALLY thought he'd fallen asleep with a lit fag in his hand.

But the point is, he is fully aware and openly acknowleges that this is HIS problem. It is (by his own admission) related to childhood abuse issues . He has never hit me or retaliated in any way when I disturb him, and has never claimed afterwards that I had deliberately attacked him, even though he might have thought it for a few seconds on waking.

This man is manipulating you - just Google "gaslighting".

And don't worry about him taking your DD back to Oz. It won't be allowed to happen. Hide her passport and birth certificate if it makes you feel safer, and get please start making plans and get some legal advice ASAP.

HTH X

I have been reading this and it has made me feel very worried for you and your daughter. This man clearly doesn't care or love you in a normal way and I wouldnt want him any where near my daughters.
From what you say I would be packing my bags as soon as he went from the house tomorrow morning and taking myself and my daughter to my parents house.
You sound like an intelligent resourceful woman - why are you with this man? If my DH critised something fundamental about my appearance I would show him the door.
Please dont bring your daughter up in this environment - all children deserve to grow up somewhere they feel safe.
Sorry about the emotional post but I am truly worried for you and I send you hugs from New Zealand.

The positives are your dd, your fab family and your job/financial independence

The negatives are your dh's appalling treatment of you because threats, undermining comments, and blanking are all pyschologically abusive tools.

You are left scared, treading on eggshells and anxious.

You do not need this, you've just had a baby, you're earning the main money, you have a stressful job, I would say you've got more than enough to deal with without any of this!

Please do not pander to him any more. Write out clearly in an email how you want things to be from now on.

Take control and do not doubt yourself for one moment. It is highly unlikely you hit him, it is highly likely you'll need mental health training/experience if you want to carry on living together.

The good thing is your dd is so young. Think of it in a few years time, then both you and your dd will be living scared as mental health issues do not go away on their own accord.

You can't force him to get treatment, it is easier for his ego to blame you for his mental health problems. You are the problem in his eyes and as he's so rational about it you are now into pyscho territory, sorry.

I'm reading this and the more I read the more frightened I am for you.

Please leave this man. SGB is right, he is working up to hitting you, he is enjoying frightening you.

If he is ill/drug abusing/ personality disordered what ever, your priority has to be the safety of you and your dd.

You are in my thoughts.

Thank you everyone so so much for reading this thread and giving your thoughts. It's hugely reassuring to hear so many people say that this behaviour is strange, scary even. It's also very confronting and I feel a bit overwhelmed. I genuinely don't believe he would hit me (although clearly he will if I hit him and I know a lot of you have said this is just a first step). But it's the psychological/emotional weirdness that for now is so hard to take.

SolidGoldBrass mentioned the assault charge from someone else. That's something that has occurred to me as I do worry that he will injure someone at some point. When we spoke last night and he was saying he no longer had anger issues I mentioned the way he walks down the street. He thinks it's fine- he says that he gives the same amount of consideration to the people walking towards him as they give to him. So if they're not paying attention he'll just barge straight through them.

I see his point in a way but he is so unbelievably mechanistic in the way he applies these paradigms. So whether it was an old lady, a child, or someone of his own build- they all get the same treatment. Everything has a rule: you don't hit me, I won't hit you; you don't get in my way, I won't get in yours. It's not tempered by compassion or empathy or any kind of flexibility and it's that above anything else that is totally doing my head in. He accepts that he is inflexible and harsh in this, by the way- he knows he is harsh etc but that's just the way he is. I don't think he realises (cares?) what it's like for the people who have to tip toe around his rules.

I am a bit overwhelmed by this all- I'm confronting issues that have been around us for years. I really want to find a family lawyer to talk to and I'm thinking of telling my sister what's going on.

Thanks everyone very very much for their posts and thoughts. I am also overwhelmed by the support that is available here. I am in a very different state this morning to what I would have been today if I hadn't been able to share all this with you.

DaySleeper I've been reading your thread, I'm so glad to read that you are feeling supported and therefore more confident this morning.

My dh also used to do the silent treatment thing. I don't think for him it had anything to do with abuse or any other mitigating thing in his childhood, it was just that he retreated from arguments and was frankly a bit of an immature twit about dealing with a wife. I also used to do a lot of worrying/running after him in order to coax him out of his mood. However after 8 yrs of marriage and 2 kids I no longer feel worried about his moods, I now take the Custy stand of just saying FOR FUCKS SAKE GROW UP and because I don't care so much what he thinks, he is much better. I think if we give our partners the power to behave badly towards us then they will take it.

However, my dh has never been violent or threatening to me, he is mostly extremely kind and loving to me and the kids. This to me is crucial in the continuing of our relationship. It sounds as if your dh isn't actually that loving towards you?

It sounds like a good idea to talk to a lawyer and your sister, get some real life support and legal facts.

Out of interest does your dh show any compassion or empathy to people he loves ie you and your dd? Or do you think he finds the concept of compassion for anyone difficult?

Hi have just caught up on this thread. It does sound, to me, like he is going to belt you one with the excuse that you hit him first. He is trying to confuse you and make you feel like you're losing the plot. The just listen to yourself line is textbook stuff. What is most weird is that there's no history of violence. Why now? Why this sinister build up? Is he on the edge of a mental breakdown, he is sounding paranoid? Normally abuse has nothing to do with mental illness, but TBH, I think he's likely to explode at any moment. I'm scared for you, seriously.

Can you do something to act this morning? Go and see someone in the CAB? A Womens Aid refuge for advice? Ring your sister? Go to your GP and request urgent help? Ask Relate for an urgent appointment? Or see a private psychotherapist/counsellor for advice and support? Make an appt with a specialist lawyer? Or ring something like the Parentline helpline who might be able to put you in touch with the right professional advice?

I would also have an escape plan in my head, and perhaps in practice (grab bag stashed outside the house? access to personal money? somewhere to go?), in case it does turn nasty.

I wouldn't panic, daysleeper. Take a bit of time, tell someone in RL what's going on, get some perspective. Lie low with DH for a while, let things settle down while you gather your thoughts. Think about counselling and maybe speak to a counsellor about where to start - should it be on your own, with DH, with/without DH's knowledge? I don't know what advice you would be given about that.

I'm pretty sure CAB or a Women's Aid refuge won't be able to advise you and I'm sure if you left suddenly you would have the financial resources to make your own arrangements rather than go to a refuge which is very much a place of last resort.

I'm certain that a lawyer will tell you that a removal of your DD from this jurisdiction without the consent of the other parent will require an application to court. Such an application made by your DH in relation to a baby of this age will not succeed - too damaging to your DD to lose regular contact with you. These applications take months and require a lot of detail to be provided about any proposed move. What you can do at this stage is hide her birth certificate and passport (if you haven't yet got her one, get one and hide it.) Just in case. She may be entitled to more than one, as you say you're not from the UK.

And don't worry too much about "custody" (now known as residence). Make sure you are the one who makes the day-to-day arrangements for her and you can rely on the fact that she is a baby and you are the mother to get you success on that one. Only very unusual circumstances result in mothers of babies losing residence, judges are pretty old fashioned.

Thanks everyone. Claudia - it's hard to answer that question about whether DH is ever compassionate. He definitely can be kind and loving but he can also be bizarrely detached and mechanistic, as per the examples I've given on this thread. I know I keep using the word mechanistic but I can't find anything else that sums it up so well.

Grammaticus - thanks very much for your thoughts on residence and removal of DD. DD has two passports which DH keeps in his paper work. I took the step of hiding them a couple of weeks ago when there had been another incident with DH. I've hidden them in a way which can be easily explained if DH realises they're missing.

I've found the names of a few family solicitors this morning and I'm getting in touch with them to see if I can meet someone for some basic preliminary advice. I've also found the details for my local Relate counsellors and will call to see what they advise about how to approach counselling.

Taking these steps is already making me feel more in control and more able to lie low with DH which I do think is the best approach until I've been able to get my thoughts in order. Thanks everyone.

Hi Daysleeper. Very glad to hear you're feeling more in control of the situation today and are making plans. It doesn't sound as if you're in immediate danger. I'd completely avoid mentioning the "hitting" incident again and let things cool off if I were you, further discussions will only enable him to accuse you of being in denial.

Reading your posts, it sounds as if the most likely explanation for his current "gaslighting" behaviour is that he feels deeply threatened since your return to work by the knowledge that you are now the main breadwinner AND a mother, and he wants to regain a feeling of control.

There is also the possibility that he is having or planning to have an affair. The mind games you are describing are a very common distraction technique used by unfaithful men to take attention away from odd behaviour on their part and to justify accusations of paranoia and irrationality.

I hope you can get the advice you need to move forward. Good luck.

if he has the thing where he fixates on one body part, maybe he was setting up a situation where he would hit you and break your nose, thus leading to you having the nose job.

this sounds v. scary behaviour, i wish you and your child well in keeping yourself safe, I don't quite understand why grammaticus felt you ought not to talk to Women's Aid......

the fact that you had already removed dd's passports due to a previous incident speaks volumes daysleeper. Only you know what the situation is really like, how threatened and uncomfortable you feel. Us speculating here on what he might do is a bit useless, but I think you know deep down that the situation needs changing one way or the other. Good luck.

His behaviour is very odd and must be very disconcerting for you. I agree with those who say it sounds as if he is in a state of controlled rage.

I was struck by you last post, when you said you have hidden your daughter's passport after a "previous incident". What was the incident? It must have had a profound affect on you if it led you to worry that he may take your daughter out of the country without your knowledge/permission.

This man is a sociopath and you are not going to be able to 'fix' him, end of.
The definition of a sociopath is someone who percieves the world as though they are the only real, important person in it, everyone else is only a prop or a convenience. He wants the world to revolve around him and has no concept or understanding that other people have feelings, wishes or even rights.He has no empathy at all and it amused hm to distress you. You really do need to get yourself and your DD away from him, before he escalates to serious violence.

Daysleeper, having read all that you have added, I agree with SGB. I mean, I am no expert on personality and psychological issues, but really, I fear for you if you stay in this relationship, and don't see how you can change him.

Was your DD born here? Or Australia?

TC - I said that because the reference was to a refuge, which I don't think will be needed by the OP. The advice line can be very good, but again I didn't think it was relevant to this poster who is demonstably able to take steps herself and to think through the "self help" practicalities very clearly.

You need to talk to someone in RL TODAY.

I can't add to the excellent advice already given, but just wanted to wish you well in dealing with what must be an extremely distressing situation daysleeper.

Thanks again everyone. Just wanted to say that I've made an appointment with a Relate counsellor on Wednesday (nothing available earlier). I'm going to go by myself initially and see how that goes. Am also trying to arrange a meeting with a family solicitor for as soon as possible.

Just to answer a couple of questions people had asked: the incident that led me to hide DD's passport was an argument we had which escalated out of a very benign chat about his mother's history (she has a troubled past and is writing her memoirs so we were talking about that process) and ended in a major stonewalling episode. In bed that night I (stupid) asked him if he actually loved me and he turned the light out and went to sleep. For some reason it made me want to find DD's passport and hide it. Blu asked where DD was born: she was born in England, where we live.

It is really wonderful to log on here and find all the messages of support. Thank you.

Keep listening to your gut instinct daysleeper

You seem to be holding things together really well. Just wanted to say I hope things work out well for you all xx