Support for us after their affairs

[debs05]

There have been many topics on here recently about affairs, whether to stay, chuck him out etc. I just thought what about when you start to come out the other side (together) and need support moving forward. Or just get it off your chest!

One thing I know is its not our fault,they are to blame with something missing in their lives and need something to make them feel good about themselves. Any one else up for a post affair chat?

Thanks Mumfun, I have some really close friends who I bore to death!. I cant understand why Im so devastated after 16months. I cant face up to the fact that he did this, I blame it all on them. My whole world has changed so much, I will never be the same thats for sure.

Thanks for coming back Debs - had been worried about you.

I think it is part of the human condition that if someone "gets away" with something once, they will do it again. Your DH got away with it twice and he never had to face the hurt and potential loss of everything he held dear. He probably didn't feel anything like as much guilt as he does now, because this time, he can see the pain and destruction he has caused. He certainly hasn't "got away with it" this time, Debs - and therefore it is much more unlikely that he will ever do anything like this again. He probably bought into the nonsense that what you didn't know about couldn't harm you, that he never wanted to leave you etc.

The reality is that secrecy has a real impact on a couple's lives and our counsellor once said that there can never be true intimacy in a relationship that has secrets like this.

That is why, with the slate clean now, there is a chance to build real, genuine intimacy between you. He knows that you would never give him another chance. He now knows what's at stake. He never had to face up to that before.

I can't remember whether you have had counselling or not? If not (or even if you have) I think it would really help you now. You might need your own counsellor, especially one that can help you unravel your previously unacknowledged feelings about your Dad and also perhaps your understandable fury that when you needed support with your prem, baby, your DH's attention was elsewhere. I suspect that this affair was escapism too - catalysts for affairs are often events that cause an adult to grow up fast, like the birth of a first child, death of a parent etc. Does your DH know what his triggers were?

Try and get some help Debs. I know you have told people in your life about this, but sometimes we all need truly objective help in these situations and counsellors provide this. Even us on Mumsnet are tainted by our own experiences, helpful though it all is.

Please keep posting Debs - and you too MumFun.

He must really love you Debs - he has stuck around through all the hurt and recriminations and it sounds like by and large, he has taken it on the chin, as he should be doing.

Thanks WhenwillI and Mumfun - just your kind words have lifted my mood. All my friends say the same, he has been so open about everything, he felt a though he'd missed out when we had our first baby(we were 17 when we got together which is ridiculously young). But over the years I have been so unhappy many times due to his overworking and I should of told him more often, but I got depressed and didnt want to bother him as he was providing for us. I feel angry at myself for not demanding more, we have had communication problems, due to I think a very immature relationship that was not a proper partnership. I love him and want to feel happy and respected.

You sound so positive WhenwillI, good for you, I hope my positiveness comes back soon

Debs, so glad we have lifted your mood. I think in your heart you know he is worth it. And you also know that in the unlikely event of him straying again, you will be able to cope without him. Your children will be that much older and easier to manage, you will have your midwifery career to fall back on. Everything you are doing for yourself now is great and will give you the resilience to cope if the worst should happen.

But I suspect that he won't be straying again, because he's had the most enormous wake-up call about the horrific consequences of his actions. He obviously doesn't want to lose you and I'm sure he respects you enormously. You have raised 5 children, taken on a demanding course of study and will be pursuing a really worthwhile career. I'd still love to know how you exacted revenge on the OW, but what ever you did, I bet he respects you for that too!

You said recently that you can still make each other laugh, your sex life was always good and you love each other. That's a pretty great recipe for a marriage Debs. Look forward to your holiday with confidence. Remember too what I said about it apparently taking 2 years to really get through all this. In your case, because of the past stuff, it might take longer.

I sound positive some days Debs, but on other days, I'm really not. I have wobbles like everyone - and it still consumes my every waking moment. I often wonder what on earth I thought about before all this happened. And like you, I still have bad flashbacks, mainly to the night I discovered it all. I can re-live every word that was spoken between us, every facial expression and even the physiological feelings of intense heat and then intense coldness. The hyper-ventilation, the heart pounding. I hope that will become more blurred with time, too.

thank you abe you really give great advice and support to other women, all the best to everyone.

feeling alot more positive today, thank WhenwillI. What do you do withyourself? do you work?. I often wonder to what I did with my-self before this. My course has been hard but a great distraction and I start Uni Sept 14th. My revenge was pretty good, she lived on a main road and lets say my revenge involved a pot of gloss paint!. My revenge on dh was the same sort of thing, but his was to a brand new BMW!. Got a caution from that! but it was the talk of the police station, not a bit of glass left unsmashed. Dont regret a thing!. I also told her husband.

i think 2 years is the minimum it takes - we are in our 3rd year and it is still here and i actually believe it always will be

I do think that until people are faced with what they will lose they dont have to think about it. My h didnt think i would find out and that i would not kick him out either (it took me a while before i did though), but i do think that was the real wake up call he needed.

when i am having a down day i try and see all the good things that this has given me.
The chance to get a marriage with more of my terms, lots of lovely new friends on here, and an inner strengh i didnt even know i had.

I also went back to work - and now do much more for me.

Thanks Happy Woman. I can't imagine a time when this won't consume me and it's interesting to read that you still think about it a lot three years on.

Glad you're feeling a bit more positive today Debs. I work, but run my own company and do lots of office-based stuff at home. I should be doing a lot of work today, but Mumsnet has become a bit of a lifeline for me and I really should be getting on with some work!

Thanks for the revenge story Debs - how utterly wonderful! I wish I could have caused the OW in my case irrepairable harm. I long for the day I get to hear that her DH has thrown her out or that she has lost her job - anything, really that would make me finally think she had got her come-uppance. But the longer this goes on, the less likely it is that I will hear anything - and there really aren't any mutual connections from which I'm likely to hear any news.

My DH and I decided that, although I had a burning need for her to be told exactly what this was and why he had chosen our marriage, to contact her after he had finished it would have inflamed her need for attention. I have always hoped that she would contact my DH again so that he could tell her what for, but I don't think she will do that now. He was pretty emphatic about wanting nothing more to do with her, but of course, he didn't say all the things I really wanted him to.

It is our suspicion that she has probably moved on now to some other idiot who falls for her lies. She had always engaged in destructive behaviours i.e hitting on men in happy relationships, making unfounded allegations of bullying at work. I could have caused her so much trouble and so wish I had. But at the time, my priority was my marriage and my kids, plus I was in so much shock.

Not having a good day myself today.

The thing is that I actually felt threatened by her! She worked in our shop and I thought she was a career woman (that shows how Id lost my self esteem! and my mind!) Now I realise and have drummed into dh that women who do this are not nice, she worked for my dh and knew my children. This makes me so angry, after the affair finished she would ring work and talk to other staff to find out about what we were doing. I think he really hates her now, even last night we were lying in bed and I just said out loud that I hated her, and he said he does too. He told me that he just wants to be home and with his family where he belongs.

WhenwillI Sorry that your having a wobble today, I too have found that Mumsnet has taken over my life!. You sound very level headed and intelligent.

deb, that is some revenge you got on the OW! My husbands ow is only young, 18 when I found out and I made sure her deeply religious parents were informed of just what their darling daughter had been doing. She has just turned 19 now and still seeing him and I have now heard that the parents found out again(this time not from me) and have thrown her out..oh well. My H is always telling me she is a 'nice' girl he doesnt understand yet that nice girls dont knowingly start an affair with a married man with 2 kids and pregnant wife at home. I do understand that it wasnt all her fault and that she didnt just jump him, clearly he was chasing her for it to start as it doesnt just 'happen'.

Nice girl my arse! A male friend of ours was recently telling us about a ridiculous internet relationship he had got involved in. Whilst DH and I are no great fans of his wife, we both feel so strongly now that affairs are just so wrong. Our friend was saying what a nice person this character was etc. He was literally open-mouthed when I said that anyone who tempts a married man to leave his family certainly isn't nice! Think it hit home a bit, though.

WDYAT, age is no real excuse either - and bravo to her parents. So pleased you told them. Debs, thanks for your message of support. I do feel a bit better as the day goes on.

How can they think that these people are nice? Thats what I dont understand, guess its that first flush of a new relationship when everything is tainted and all you can see is the persons good points. I just think that a nice girl would turn round and say 'fuck off' when being chased by a married man!

I know her age is no excuse but I know that at that age being involved with a older man(he is 34) who has a car and money is seen as a good thing with friends. I cant see their relationship lasting and cant believe my H chucked everything we had away for her. He is now being very cold towards me and has moments of being verbally abusive. I know I have to accept that he is with her but I just hate it.

Whatdoyouallthink - I am sorry for your situation, it sounds like an early mid-life crisis, like he's trying to re-live his youth. That is an enormous age gap, it wont last, all affairs are based on escapism. Why would she at that age want to be stuck with a married man with kids, she will want her own one day and all the complications that are involved will make it difficult. He will be back with his tail between his legs, trouble is if he is being abusive that will make it harder for you.

I think there will be a baby in the mix soon enough, there has already been one pregnancy scare where she is concerned with my H. She seems a troubled girl with lots of things going on (physically abusive ex, abortion and finding out she is adopted) which she has only confided in my H about. Which I find strange as at that age most of your friends know exactly what is going on in your life!

Im sure it wont last everyone keeps saying that but people do have big age gaps and have successful relationships. He loves her and she loves him. Just hope she worth walking out on your family for and at the time, a 6 week old baby.

Im not surprised you still have wobbles, its so hard dealing with all this especially when your both trying to work through it. Must take huge strength and must be so hard at times to bite your tongue and not question everything while trying to rebuild trust with your H.

She does sound very troubled, that must of been so hard with a 6wk old baby, I hope you have alot of support. He will never realise the destruction that he has caused you.

I too wish i had caused more trouble than i did. They worked together and it could have caused a lot of trouble for a lot of people.
I did try and let them carry on working together as another boss had said it could work and that he would always be there for me.......
Anyway she was always trying to stab him the back and so he found another job. I think given the choice they would have sacked her (and yes they could have - they was lots they could have done to both of them), but by then it was too late my h wanted out.
I too wish she would contact again if only so i could hear what h says to her.
It is hard when you hate the ow and they still want to be seen as the 'decent' man and not hurt them.

I think my H likes to think of himself as saving her. I know she has self harmed in the past too. Yes I guess it was and I do have the most amazing family and friends who have all helped so much I could never thank them enough. You really just get on with things dont you, got through them early days on auto pilot. Dont even really remember a lot of it. DD is now nearly 7 months old so it seems a long time ago.

WhenwillI - have just read your post on the other thread and it was perfect. I have cast my mind back to when I last felt happy and I agree that it was when he was having an affair, Trouble is it was the first one, I have never truly felt as though he loved me and Ive never had the marriage I wanted and I wouldnt have would I? he was involved with someone else within the first year of our married life, im finding this all too painful. I think Im lost in a fairytale world and Im too scared to admit that Ive put up with not feeling happy and fulfilled.

How are you today?

Thanks for asking Debs. I've had a strange few days and I am starting to wonder whether reading about others' affairs (and posting about them) is doing me more harm than good, to be honest. I've given my DH a terrible time of it this week, having come up with new theories about his true feelings towards me during his affair (he says he always loved me, I say he can't have done) and we have had hardly enough sleep and I've been teary and unsettled all week.

On the other hand, I will be eternally grateful for the wise advice I've read on here and I feel a need to give something back too. I'm also a bit bogged down with a big work event I've got next week and I know that I'm going to be nose to the grindstone for a few weeks and that's troubling me too.

Debs, I'm so sorry my post to Fading caused you to question things so much. But maybe it's not such a bad thing, because you still can examine what would truly make you happy. I read what you said about always feeling you loved more than your DH, but I don't get any sense of that now. I think he loves you very, very much. As you say, what a price to pay for that precious gain, but it might help you to ask him tonight how his feelings are for you now, compared to the pre-discovery days? I bet he'll stay they are stronger and deeper.

Me and my DH came at this from the opposite perspective tbh. I (and he, it turns out) always thought that it was HIM who loved more. That's why this has been such a monumental shock to me, on top of the normal shock and horror. What we've discovered is that we both love each other equally and very deeply. I think it's taken me all of my 45 years to realise that I am more vulnerable where he is concerned than I ever thought. That's both scary and also fantastic too - I feel as though I can finally and honestly say that I completely love this man.

I read somewhere that all the time one partner is keeping past affairs secret, they sub-consciously put their partner in "victim" mode. They are never truly intimate with their partner (our counsellor said that) and it is impossible to see one's partner as an equal, all the while you know that they are a victim. This could be how your DH saw you all those years and it is such a shame - and is something I'd scream from the rooftops if I ever heard another person say "don't tell your partner if you've had an affair, you're only unloading your own guilt, better that they remain in blissful ignorance". It really isn't okay, because I suspect your DH has always been holding back on you, never seeing you as an equal.

But Debs, that is in the past. I bet he does see you as an equal now, because you are no longer in victim mode.

Try and think now about all the good qualities you have together - and the opportunity now to have an equal marriage, where both of you love whole-heartedly. No secrets, no one-upmanship, just total mutual respect and love.

Thanks - I too wonder whether all my internet searching and reading threads on here is doing more harm than good. I know what your saying about the past but it all means so much, Im putting on a brave front to everyone but he is getting it in the neck all the time. When he says he doesnt even think about it I believe him, he truly has moved on, but I cant. I have so much in life but the one thing that I want is never going to be, like you said on the other post, I wont be truly happy with him or without him.

I actually wish I didnt know about the others its too much to take on board.

Debs - I understand how you feel, but I also know that I'd be happier with him than without him. To leave him now would be like cutting my nose off to spite my face. I have to hold on to the belief that the pre-discovery unadulterated (huh, what a word eh?) happiness will come back. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ever, if he and I parted - even if I met and fell in love with someone else. I know I'll never get back that complete, blinding trust in him again and I (and he) can live with that, because I'd never trust ANYONE like that again anyway.

Debs, what about some counselling just for you?
You've been so brave and as you say putting on such a front. I've been thinking more about counselling for me this week than at any other time.

What do you think about discussing with your DH his feelings for you now - and how they have changed since all this? I honestly think you'll be giving yourself a great gift when you get his response, as I think you'll discover that he at last loves you totally. Perhaps see this in the great scheme of things as a precious gift - he finally loves you the way you love him - and the way you have always deserved to be loved.

I do ask him and he has said how much he loves me, I can see what your saying and I too will never trust anyone again. I just need to stop the pain and move on and Im seeing more negatives that positives. I had counselling and I seemed to justify what he'd done!. Im off to get the kids so will sign on later.

I am sat here smirking at some of your tales of revenge!

Oh how I dream of it! I went down the so called "dignified route" afterwards and was actually very civil to the several OW. ALthough, I knew things about hubby they didnt (as he had lied to them) so in my "pretending to be nice" I did try and make them feel a bit used and like shit but in a subtle way.

I told one of the women that obviously I had sent hubby to the clap clinic (true it was the first thing I made him do - more for his own humiliation tbh). He came back all clear but I called the OW and made up some bullshit story that I had asked hubby to call her. Of course she was full of herself with "oh no he's not been intouch" (I knew he would not have been). Then I pretended to be horrified and disgusted with him as I had asked him to have the decency to contact her to let her know he had Chlamydia (another lie he was all clear). I told her IO had also been diagnosed with it (another lie). She was horrified. Almost started to cry on the phone. I have no idea but I hope she put booked herself in for an afternoon at the clap clinic!!

Really though I did nothing I feel like doing! Even now I SOOOOOOOOOO want revenge on them. More so the last one he was actually falling for. It never leaves me. DOnt get me wrong (I dont want another "why blame the OW discussion"). I blame hubby 100% but when I feel the uncrollable urge I can make a sarcastic remark to let him know it still hurts, its still there all the time on my mind. I can still loose my temper with him and tell him what a shit I think he has been etc. She has walked away and is having a bloody ball! She is happily in love (for the 3rd time since January 2008 - also one engagement now broken off since her and my hubby split). She seems to have forgotten about her part in destroying my marriage and breaking my heart!!

I hate the bitch! I do have some incriminating photos of her. I dream of having the guts to do something with them but keep telling myself NO!!

Grrrrrr!

Can I just vent and say arghhhhh! I just find everything so hard at the moment. Very complicated limbo situation. Thought we could move forward - but now have had massive row with DH!

Currently separated - he wants still to take children every 2nd weekend (one night away) to his mothers even if we get back together. Long complicated history why but it is making me so angry -I have said every 4 weeks is ok but every 2 not.

Hard to explain but its a big control issue for him and I really am starting to be amazed at the control stuff which is coming out around him!

Vent away, have had such a bad couple of weeks but back on track now, so vent away!! Do you know what a night on my own without having to see MIL sounds great, why is it a problem?.