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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

985 replies

ginnny · 08/05/2009 11:36

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

OP posts:
Ready4anotherdecaffCoffee · 19/05/2009 16:48

Attila, how nice of you to offer, white & one sugar for me please

I have yummy sweet and juicy fresh pineapple

splishsplosh · 19/05/2009 16:59

any for me too?

Ready4anotherdecaffCoffee · 19/05/2009 17:05

Do you think she's gone to milk the cow herself?

onlygotonelife · 19/05/2009 20:40

He keeps ringing, making all these plans for a 2nd job, helping more with dc, staying clean.... but all dependent on me borrowing another £1k.

I have said no, because if he does take drugs again, he won't be able to pay me back, and I can't pay my bills as it is.

So he says he will run away. But can't bear not to see kids.

Now he says he will kill himself.

Have just ended up shrieking back at him - cannot stand this emotional blackmail.

Ready4anotherdecaffCoffee · 19/05/2009 20:56

OGOL, I feel for you. thing is, we both know that it is all hot air. It's all plans, and even if you jumped through every hoop going, it isn't going to happen.

emotional blackmail, is a PITA, can't he go and kill himself quietly, and make sure he does it discretly? [sorry, lost patience with it all after dh once told me he only had 6 mths to live]

If he needs 1K that desperatly, he can clean toilets or whatever, and f**king well earn it. Unplug your telephone, and get a mob which he doesn't know the number to

(((hugs))), stay strong sweetie xx

onlygotonelife · 19/05/2009 23:20

He'sonly managed amonth clean at most, so while I think he truly believes all he says about this being his new start etc, I also feel 99.999% sure that he will relapse again, leaving him unable to pay. These people want their money now,and apparently will threaten him at gunpoint for it - but then he knows they're dangerous people yet keeps going back. I've given in so many times to the idea that if i pay the debt it will stop them contacting him, and he won't do it again.... then sometimes his resolve has only lasted a few hours!

Selfish, manipulative

Ready4anotherdecaffCoffee · 20/05/2009 00:31

Sorry, I'm going to sound really harsh, but...

His debt

His mess

Will threaten him at gunpoint?

Good.

Will either scare the bollocks off him, and prompt him to sort himself out properly and not go back

or will scare him so he 'disappears' and gives you breathing space.

His mess.

Not yours.

Don't make it your debt.

keep him at arms length.

When they're done with him, I'll let you know when dh next goes on a binge and they can come and 'sort' him out.

Hammy01 · 20/05/2009 07:28

OGOL - PLease please do not give into his emotional blackmailing threats.
You know he won't pay it back, it'll give him a clean 'slate' with the dealers that no doubt over the next few weekends he can easily build back up again.
This is how we get into our debt mess to start with, they make us feel that we can wave a magic wand and get rid of the debt while they struggle with their demons to become clean.
Gonna sound harsh but we know its a bloody lie, they just want the debt rid of but probably have no intention of paying it back.
Let him scream, let him threaten to kill himself, HE is responsible for his own actions. If HE wants to get clean then HE will.
You cannot afford another loan, your worried enough about the debt that your struggling to pay back. If these men truly loved and cared for us, why do they continually pressure us to get more debt and then leave us to worry about how its going to get paid every month? Sounding old fashioned but I always wanted a man to look after me, to provide for me and to some extent manage money together
You said yourself that your almost 100% sure he's going to relapse. This will not be the last time he's desperate for money to pay a debt.
You are not being heartless, nasty, spiteful you are not enabling him anymore.
You are thinking of you and your children.
Stay strong in this hard time. Your thinking of you and your babies needs, you've been putting his first for far too long and all you've had in return are false hopes and promises of the life you thought you could have together...if he waas clean.
Praying for you and your babies x

ginnny · 20/05/2009 10:14

OGOL - Please don't give him the money. Everyone else is right. It is HIS problem, HIS addiction, HIS debt.
It won't end here, you know that - even if he cleans the slate with the dealers, they will want him to run up another one, and he isn't strong enough to resist their temptation yet.
If they threaten him at gunpoint then that's down to him. Not you. You can't protect him.
(((((hug)))) for you.

OP posts:
onlygotonelife · 20/05/2009 14:21

Thank you, I know what you say is true, which is why I'm doing my best to stand firm.

he came over last night to get his stuff so he could run away. then ended up staying so could see kids in morning and give me time to "think again". Then this morning harangued me for money so didn't have to run away. called me names, ripped up a book, shouted, told me he wished he could kick my head in (but he's not that kind of man)
couldn't believe i could lose house etc and make him run away over £1k. now he knows what sort of woman i am.

in end agreed to take loan for £200 as he has paid £340 into my acc but not cleared yet. Couldn't get loan, so then wanted me to try and open 4th current acc so cd get another overdraft. said no.

he's trying to get money from his mum. told me these people could come to the house, could threaten me/kids.

apparently i should realise he has changed as he looked after kids for a bit on 2 mornings, so as i am in so much debt, what is £1k more if chance it could save all.... er, the fact that believing that logic is how i am in this position. He's so desperate to pay his drug debts but never so concerned about mortgage, bills, things we need

do i believe these people could turn up here? should i try to go to a refuge? benefit people still haven't decided my claim. was crying on phone to them because i'm so desperate.

Hammy01 · 20/05/2009 16:26

OGOL - Could you not apply for a crisis loan? Sorry, I don't know what people are entitled to, particularly if they own their own home as I am in the same boat as you. The mortgage and all the bills are all in my name (as husband has got such a shit credit rating - surprise ) so when I grow big enough balls to say 'enough is enough' I don't know how we'll manage as my monthly earnings will just cover all the outgoings, with about £20 a week left over for food, clothes and petrol. Surely the benefits people must be able to do something? You've got 2 LOs, surely they cannot let you starve?
I'd send you a food parcel if I actually had any money after husbands weekends binge thats wiped us out.
Have you any family nearby that could help you?
He's just getting shitty with you as thats whats made you give in before to his monetry demands. Is he likely to get money from his mum?
Keep standing your ground hun... your doing amazingly well, despite his tantrums and attempted blackmailing efforts. And don't let him use the kids as a heartstring puller...he didn't think of u or the kids when he was out spending all this money up his nose
Big hug to you

ginnny · 21/05/2009 10:05

OGOL - If you are worried that they might come to your house then contact the police or womens aid. Even if you think its all hot air it might be worth registering it just in case. That is really really low to threaten that imo, and to have put you and dc in such a vulnerable position.
You are doing well to stand your ground. He sounds like a complete bully and the sooner he is out of your life the better. So he looked after the dc 2 mornings - WOW, who does he think looks after them 24/7 while he's off taking his drugs?
Stay angry and stay strong. You are doing great.

OP posts:
secretsquirrel1 · 21/05/2009 16:19

OGOL - agree with Ginnny, you must register with the police in case the shit hits the fan. Then when you dial 999 your details will come up straight away and they will be round as a matter of urgency - they have a duty of care as you are vulnerable.

You should call the womens refuge - they will be the best people to give you sound advice/help.

Please don't give in to him. ((((()))))

PS Thanks for the strawberries, Atilla!

onlygotonelife · 21/05/2009 16:25

He has had a caution for dv anyway just after dd2 was born - would that make my details come up anyway if I called?

Have been in touch with Women's Aid and I've seen the outreach worker a couple of times.
Thanks for your thoughts ladies

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/05/2009 16:35

OGOL aka PrincessHobnob

The longer you stay in this situation the harder it will be for you to make a complete break from him. You should feel absolutely nothing for him and his life. He screwed up - not your fault and he's not your responsibility either,

You and your children deserve far better. Please keep talking to WA and the outreach worker; you need real life support if you want to break away from him for good. I sincerely hope you can make the break because he will only drag you all down with him otherwise.

secretsquirrel1 · 21/05/2009 22:40

OGOL - Ring the police and update them, if only to ensure that they have the right details. If he gets nasty or if anyone turns up at your door, you need to know that you'll have a rapid response. The police where I am were really good - they had a precis of the situation, a description of my ex & they explained that as soon as 999 is dialed they would be out to my house.

Atilla is right - this cannot go on for you and your children. You can make a choice about how you react to him; they don't have that choice.

Hope everyone else is ok.

secretsquirrel1 · 22/05/2009 18:17

I'm away for the week now - and have no internet so will have to catch up after next Sat. SSX

Ready4anotherCoffee · 27/05/2009 01:01

Not sure if anyone else has seen princesses thread here, but I just wanted to say well done, you go girl, you deserve better.

Hope you have a good week away SS

hi to everyone else, how are you all?

Springfleurs · 27/05/2009 08:56

Well I am finally going to post here. I have been avoiding this for a lot of years now.

My ex h drinks anywhere between 6 and 10 cans every single night. Often buys 6 for £5 and then sneaks out again in the middle of the night for another 6. He says it is not a problem as he does not drink spirits.

I so relate to the "all men drink" spiel and the cutting down for a few days and it creeping back up again.

His drinking has led him to being unfaithful on numerous occasions, to be verbally and physically abusive. This tends to be when he has not had anything to drink for a couple of days, because of lack of money etc or when he is showing me that he doesn't "need to drink". Like clockwork on the second or third day without a drink he becomes so unbelievably nasty - usually verbally, that the things he says take my breath away. He has been aggressive to strangers also and been arrested for this a few times. He took our dc over to their grandparents one time and I rang him to find out what time he would be back, I could clearly hear that he had been drinking and was fully intending driving home with them. I rang in laws and told them not to let him take dc. This only ever happened once. He does seem to have the ability to learn about things like that but more likely it is because I do not put the dc in a position where they have to rely on him. When he was here, he frequently dranks so much that he would urinate on the sofa or bed.

He regularly used to abandon us as a family and go on anywhere up to 5 day benders. He did it when dd was two weeks old and I had had a c section. He says that I hold onto things like this and need to move on as he has not done it for a long time. The last time was about a year ago but I feel deep down that this is only because he cannot afford to, has no friends nearby and is very committed to his job so that regulates him to a certain extent. He says he is changing bit by bit and I suppose he is but it has been nearly 8 years now. By the time he has sorted himself out by dc will be grown up and absorbed all the toxicity of living with a drinker.

We are not together at present but he comes to see the dc every single day and asks me to get back with him as I am being "selfish" and "unreasonable" and "unforgiving".

I feel terribly guilty for my children. We married when he was quite young and I am a few years older. I feel like I trapped him and made him desperate to drink like this. Although he has always drunk like this since he was 16, lost jobs, got into fights over etc. It does seem to be worse since we married though. I so don't want to be with him anymore but I feel like I am being selfish. My dc adore him. I am the only one who was unhappy so I feel like I am putting myself first.

He manages to hold down a job and doesn't even seem affected physically. He does not have the red face that others describe. He only drinks when the dc have gone to bed, this was a rule I made a few years ago as I did not want them seeing him drinking all the time. For the last year we were together I did not allow him to sleep in the bed with me as I did not want a drunk in the same room as me and dd, he says this made him drink more as he couldn't come to bed. This all contributes to making me wonder if I am being unreasonable.

Sorry this is so long I wanted to write absolutely everything that has happened and the things I feel that I am at fault for as well to give a balanced view.

I desperately need some advice because although we are not together I still feel so responsible and unsure that I am doing the right thing by splitting up the family.

Thanks if you managed to read all this.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/05/2009 09:29

Springfleurs

Are you now planning to divorce him?. You certainly have many grounds to do so. At the very least I would not have him visit your home at all or allow him to drink alcohol in your house. This becomes an alcohol free zone. Your rule of him drinking only after the children have done to bed is also enabling behaviour on your part but enabling only gives a false sense of control. "Rules" like that too are only made to be broken.

All men certainly don't drink and certainly not to the extent that he does. Again this is denial within him talking here and denial is a powerful force with the alcoholic.

His primary relationship first and foremost is with drink. Everything and everyone else is a lot further on down the list even if you all figure on it.

He may well hold down a job (well currently at least, he sounds like a functioning alcoholic) but there is no guarantee this will continue. You write that he has lost jobs before now because of this.

He is an your for extremely good reasons, ex's often are. He would continue to emotionally harm you and your children were he to stay with you permanently along with dragging you all down with him. You have not split up this family, he broke this family by his actions.

This comment of yours is also very telling and is very true:-
"By the time he has sorted himself out by dc will be grown up and absorbed all the toxicity of living with a drinker"

However, there are no guarantees here; he could lose everything and still continue to drink. Children of alcoholics parents can also go on to meet alcoholic partners themselves as adutls and become super responsible for the alcoholic.

You are also NOT, repeat NOT (x 1 million) responsible for him and his alcoholism; he chose to act this way and you did not make him an alcoholic. You did not "trap" him. He is projecting all his faults and problems onto you and is in denial of his problem (he does not think his alcoholism is a problem because he does not drink spirits!). Its tragic, his way of thinking and shows how deluded he actually is.

He may not be showing any physical effects but internally he is being damaged by alcohol. Mentally too, I would hazard a guess that this his short term memory is becoming poorer. Yet another effect of chronic alcoholism.

Like many women in these situations you feel responsible for the alcoholic; you should not feel this way although this is easy to say but hard to put into practice. You must emotionally detach and continue to put you and your children ahead of his interests. You have doen this be separating from him. You must remain separate from him and continue to detach.

Have you talked to Al-anon; they can help you and won't judge your situation. You need real life support as well as MN.

How many of your friends know of all this, very few I would imagine. This also thrives on secrecy.

You have a choice at the end of the day. Your children have no say.

Springfleurs · 27/05/2009 10:02

Thanks for your reply Attila.

I do still feel responsbile to a certain extent but not enough to continue in a relationship with him.

He tells me that he drank as much as this when he first met me, nothing has changed so why is it a problem now? First of all this is not true, it has steadily crept up over the years and secondly everything else has changed, ie we had dc and need to provide a safe, secure life for them so that is why it is a problem now.

I have told his parents many times of his drinking but his dad just denies it "all men like a few pints" and his Mum is a classic "enabler" to all of her family. H's sister clearly has a drinking problem as well. My parents are aware but I don't have much trust in them because of an abusive childhood. Don't really have any RL friends where I live, they all live elsewhere or abroad.

I do want to divorce him, financially it is not the priority at the moment but that is the long term plan.

I think the hardest thing for me is the lack of physical symptoms in him. I KNOW it is unacceptable for him to be drinking 10 cans night but it just doesn't seem to show itself in him. He gets up,he goes to work etc. He doesn't seem to get bad hangovers, he has put on a lot of weight though. This makes me wonder if I am overreacting or being a drama queen.

Have looked at the Al-anon website and there are meetings close to me so it is possible I could attend.

Thanks again for reply, I know you are right about me not being responsible but I can't help but feel that I owe him something as my children's father.

Ready4anotherdecaffcoffee · 27/05/2009 10:18

Hi springfleurs,

If you read the past posts both here and the previous one, you'll see we all could have written large chuncks of your post. look back and find the link on detachment, it's been very useful for me.

Dh has been making no effort to look for work. He spends a lot of time either asleep or with a beer in hand. fortunatly just maudlin rather than aggressive once drunk at the mo.

His urine results came back, and were negative. I finally got the full story when he had to write out a statement just in case the results were pos, and it transpires he was upset because we'd had an argument the night before [over his drinking] and when I couldn't talk it through [apologise/listen to his justification] on the phgone he went out of the yard and had a couple of cans. [TWATBOLLOXWANKER]. WELL, THERE YOU GO. i KNOW HIS DRINKING WOULD COST HIM HIS JOB.

Sorry, I needed that healthy rant.

Quite of my friends know he drinks now. i need to speak to my HV, and see what other support is out there for us. She is lovely, but I'm bricking it. i expect I'll get her over under the guise of weighing dd2.

I've taken to doing online shops so he can;'t sneak beer into the trolley, and cause an argument. however he's still drinking tool much, and the whites of his eyes are a definite butter yellow. makes me wonder how much more his body can take.

Ready4anotherdecaffcoffee · 30/05/2009 09:33

How is everyone?

I'm finding here the beer is hitting him harder, he sits in the sun, and it is all he drinks, and so is sweating like a pig, and dehydrated. The whites of his eyes look really dodgy now, a dirty grey-yellow[think greying margerine].

Talk abbout killing yourself slowly.

How is everyone else?

secretsquirrel1 · 01/06/2009 17:09

Hi Ready - Trouble is, no matter how many things you do to try and outwit them....you never will. He will get the alcohol from somewhere - but the +ve is that you won't be stressing out about what you find at the checkout when you shop online

However, you don't need me to tell you that his behaviour is unnacceptable - you need all the help and support you can get for yourself & your DCs. Try not to get a justification/reason/discussion from him - don't engage in what has happened. You'll just get very frustrated (yes I've been there so I know exactly what you're going through).

You need to start focusing on you & the DC's - and not on those eggy eyes !!

BodenGroupie · 01/06/2009 20:52

Does anyone on here know of any positive outcomes from this sort of situation? I've just made the decision to go to an AlAnon meeting after 20 years of watching my husband's mainly secret drinking get worse and worse. I wonder if I've left it too late or if I'm just setting myself up for more disappointment.

Ready4, something you said way back in these posts about swigging straight out of the bottle rang a bell. Every bottle of alcohol we have in the house - usually my cooking stuff - has been drunk down to the last centimetre. I think he thinks as long as it's not completely empty I won't notice. I look after all the money (not that there is much, for obvious reasons) but he's "lost" every receipt whenever he goes to Tescos. The whole thing makes me feel really humiliated, partly because I know some of our friends just think I'm controlling him when I'm actually just trying to stop the world falling apart around my DDs.

He says the problem is mine because I don't drink enough . I stick to weekends only, mainly because I don't think it's healthy to drink every day. I wonder if I should give up completely and not have any booze in the house.

Don't know if I can take many more evenings of him snoring on the sofa cos he doesn't eat but does drink