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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

985 replies

ginnny · 08/05/2009 11:36

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

OP posts:
Calyx · 01/08/2011 19:59

I meant his actions didn't affect me this weekend BUT today I felt sad and depressed. Confused or what?!

Still not convinced this will 'work' but he has said he will call the AA helpline tomorrow so I'm allowing myself to feel hopeful.

Praying for serenity and hopefully going to get there again Smile

secretsquirrel1 · 02/08/2011 12:14

I am away this week, so catching up will be patchy....

Calyx, are you really sure you have a clear enough head to be making such a huge decision? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but your last posts sound like you are beginning to talk yourself out of it.

It may be enough to make him seek help but be warned, he will know that he only has to say what he thinks you want to hear, then you're back in the same old same old.

You have to know in your heart of hearts that you are making the right decision for the right reasons.

If he calls AA then that is fab. BUT, You have to be aware that an alcoholic will say anything to get them off the hook. They will promise you the earth when they realise that the house of cards is about to fall down.

Did you say that you had tried Al-Anon?

Calyx · 02/08/2011 13:12

Thanks Secretsquirrel :)

I know what you're saying and I feel the same. I went to Al-Anon meetings last year and since then I've been doing the daily readings in Courage to Change, and keeping myself focused with Codependent no more and Getting them Sober. I haven't kept going to the meetings because I felt things were improving but I know where and when two of them are nowadays in case I want more support. I'm also on 12stepforums (online Al-Anon meetings) now and again too.

I hadn't decided to divorce for sure. I had decided that if he hadn't agreed to seek outside help (eg admitting he has a problem and saying he is committing to doing something about it) THEN it was definitely divorce. Now, as he has agreed to call AA, I'm back on 'wait and see' mode. In the meantime I'm trying to keep my focus on myself.

I will not stand for the same old same old any more. He's had his warning and now I'm going to see whether he changes for the better or not. If not then it will be divorce even though it will be sad.

I feel that standing up for myself as I am doing has gained me some self-respect and self-esteem. It is not easy but I feel as though progress is being made. I am so grateful for your (and everyone else here) support! :) It helps me to type things out here and reading it over helps me to remember what's going on (I am amazing at just forgetting important things and letting the routine take over again but will be trying not to do that again!)

secretsquirrel1 · 02/08/2011 15:30

Now is when you really do need the meetings....

You "need to reason things out with someone else" (with someone who really understands).

Have you read The (first) Support Thread for Partners of Addicts here on MN?

It's a real eye opener, with a lot of the same behaviours and how we've dealt with it.

I read it the other week and didn't recognise any of us from that time. We have all grown into much happier people with a life that we could only dream of!

Well done you for keeping the focus on you - hard though it is to not obssess about him in any way (stop frantically checking for those texts for starters Wink!)

LalaDipsey · 05/08/2011 13:14

Hiya
I am so sorry - this week it has been impossible to get on the internet as DH has been working from home EVERY DAY (normally just once a week) so I haven't been able to cos in the evenings the computer is in the living room and I don't want him to see the thread! I have tried to post on my iphone but after painstakingly typing a message in on Weds which took AGES it didn't work (never done it before and prob never will at this rate!!)
Calyx hon - what a nightmare - how have things been this week?? DID HE CALL THEM????
I know from seeing this thread and especially some of the more recent posts from long suffering wives that DH's can change and oh Calyx I so hope yours has.
Mine has been extraordinarily good this week - it's almost freaky!! He hasn't had a drink since Sunday - now he hasn't gone this long without a drink in about ten years or so so this is a BIG thing. He has also stopped smoking (remember I said he was an all or nothing kind of guy??!!!) but oddly enough his mood has been fantastic. He has played more with DD this week than honestly in the previous 3-4 months put together. It is really strange. TBH I don't trust in and am pretty sure he will drink this weekend, but if it's only a little bit and it doesn't a) affect his mood or b) start a downwards spiral of drinking again then that's fine.
How long will this 'new' dh last for tho? It's anyone's guess!!
The sad thing is that I have SO enjoyed him this week - it has been just lovely - he has done things for me and watched DD for me with no issues - I will really miss this man if he goes away again.
Calyx - I so hope your DH has called AA - what a nightmare weekend you had.
SS you speak a lot of sense
Lala xxx

Calyx · 05/08/2011 15:21

Hiya SS and Lala. I'm so glad your DH is being a 'D' H this week Lala :) Long may it last!

Today's the day that I go back to my flat. He's NOT phoned AA. Wednesday - too tired and had a tummy bug. Thursday - too tired after work. Today - well who knows. It's his payday. I haven't texted him today and I'm just going to leave it and see what he does (as what he says is not the same as what he does as we all know!)

I'm starting to hope he does get drunk this weekend. I can then say to him right, this is it, we're separated and I'm getting a divorce. If he doesn't get drunk this weekend I'm going to wait until he does and then say it. Well that's what I'm thinking today, who knows what I'll be thinking tomorrow!

I have enjoyed my 2 weeks away from him and our horrible, messy, needs decorating flat. I wonder how I'll feel when I get in. I'm putting it off, tidying and cleaning my sister's flat and I've put chicken etc in the slow cooker for them to have a nice (I hope!) meal for them coming in this evening. I think after I've finished writing this I will just grab the suitcase and head back to my flat and just see what happens.

I'll pop back in later or tomorrow and update (more for me so I've a record of my thoughts and feelings and what's happened) and I wish everyone a nice weekend! I'm off work from today till next Friday and am looking forward to some 'putting myself first' from today onwards.

Big hugs to everyone for listening and helping! Secretsquirrel, I read the old thread and am so impressed and proud of you for all you have managed to do :)

LalaDipsey · 07/08/2011 13:11

Calyx how has the weekend been, hon? Been thinking about you loads x

Calyx · 07/08/2011 13:34

Hiya Lala thanks for thinking of me Smile. I'm having a good weekend! DH has decided that he doesn't want to lose me and says he thinks going to the pub after work is the problem. He is determined that he will be able to keep the drinking down to 2 cans of an evening instead. I have told him I am not wasting my energy trying to control him any more so no more ultimatums - next time he gets drunk and aggressive then I'm kicking him out and if he then refuses to go, I will leave and as the flat's rented in my name, he can take it over or move out himself.

The thing is, I really mean it. I think and hope he gets this. I'm not saying it again.

He had steak, baked potato and broccoli for me getting home on Friday. He has been his lovely sober self all weekend. He has told his drinking buddy that he's welcome to the flat but only without drink.

I am scrubbing and cleaning and have washed everything in the flat (it was honking when I got back on Friday). It's really nice actually. He has emptied the bins and cooked us bacon rolls etc. He hasn't even got dope ("because I would have to go to the pub for it") so I am going to relax, get on with focusing on me and see what happens.

I hope your DH keeps up being a normal father, husband and human being Smile and I hope mine manages to keep it up too.

Happy Sunday afternoon to everyone Grin

secretsquirrel1 · 11/08/2011 02:27

Calyx & Lala, how are things going?

Calyx · 11/08/2011 12:07

Hiya SS Smile things here are good, thanks. He's not had or mentioned alcohol all weekend and this week except for a bottle of Rose which he bought for dinner Monday night (he's not keen on Rose but I like it).

I'm trying to stop the codependency eg not doing things for him all the time; example: he has new uniform for work and normally when they are dry I would have ironed them as a matter of course (I don't iron anything else except shirts). I said conversationally "you're probably going to have to iron these before you wear them" and he said "oh are you not going to iron them" and I said "well I could if you asked me" .... His reply "ach I wouldn't ask you to do that" and nothing else was said! So I haven't and will not iron his work shirts. Seems such a small thing but to me it's a breakthrough!

How's things with you and DD? it's horribly wet and rainy here and it's my week off work grrr! How are you and DH getting on Lala? Thanks for both of your support over the past few weeks Smile

secretsquirrel1 · 13/08/2011 04:07

DD is at my mums, I'm on nights for the next week.

Try to live in the day - your DP was nice yesterday, he may be nice today as well....great if he is but if he has a slip & he isn't, don't react to it. Go out, do nice stuff with your friends etc.

I had a stark reminder of the madness I used to live in earlier on this eve.

EH texted to find out what time I was bringing DD to his parents (where he now lives)later on today. Texted back to say that he'd got the wrong day, it's the 26th. Cue phonecall, and he was ranting and raving, abusive and threatening. And obviously very drunk.

I calmly said "I can see you're upset, I'm not going to talk to you when you are behaving like this" and cut him off.

In the space of 1/2 hr I had 3 texts from him all of which I've ignored.

Now the old me would've done anything/said anything to stop him shouting at me. there'd be numerous texts and then I would've driven a 360 mile round trip to my mums after a nightshift just so he could have it his way.

There's been a miscommunication/misunderstanding somewhere - but the new me isn't always assuming that it's All My Fault. When I was living in the madness of active alcoholism, he told me so often that it was my fault that I began to believe him....Sad

I'm so so glad that I'm not living with it anymore, but I'm still very sad that he's still drinking.

Calyx · 13/08/2011 22:52

You have been great Secretsquirrel, well done for not engaging with his rubbish. And all over his own mistake as well, unbelievable what alcohol turns them into isn't it Sad

I hope he calms down and gives you peace tomorrow (())

secretsquirrel1 · 14/08/2011 00:39

Thank you, Calyx.

I rang him this eve and he was more 'mellow' but obviously hungover....I think his parents are away and he's gone into freefall.

Kept the conversation very short and to the point; it was ok. I didn't do any more engaging than I had to.

Obviously rang my mum to let her know what had happened, and reassured her this eve before coming to work.

It looks like I'm going to have to go to Court to get the access thing written in tablets of stone. I was hoping to not do this, but as mum has said earlier, I can't keep trying to maintain the status quo.

He is getting worse and although he and his parents have let me down about 5 times (since we split 2 years ago) with the access thing, it is only going to get progressively worse and bitter when it keeps going wrong.

LalaDipsey · 14/08/2011 14:02

Hi Girls,
Sorry I have had another week of difficult internet access - finally got on yesterday - wrote a long post and then lost it and the internet connection!! AAGGH!
SS - I am so sorry your EH is behaving like an a** but you were very strong and really good to not respond. Having access written down sounds like it might be a sensible thing - does it have to be court or could you (may be bonkers to suggest it!) liaise with each other when he is sober and get it witnessed by a lawyer to save the hassle? It is going to get worse if he continually lets you down and you need to be able to save your sanity.
Calyx - I am so glad things are going well. As SS says - each day things are good that is a good thing.
Here things are generally much better. DH has had 1 drink a night (either a glass of wine or a beer) every night since Saturday, but that's it apart from Weds when he had about 3 glasses of wine. He was then noticable short tempered on Thurs and get stropping with DD at her bedtime when she was wriggling around and he couldn't do the zip on her sleeping bag and he got forceful with it and broke the zip. I did think oh my goodness here we go again (esp as he had a glass of wine before her bed which he hadn't done since our 'big chat') and I fully expected to come downstairs to see him with a drink in hand and to drink all night BUT I came downstairs and he was drinking squash and he didn't have any more. I so so hope he is going to keep this up as Thursday was a glimpse back a couple of weeks and I realised how much I don;t want to lose this new DH, whereas when he was being horrible I felt I had ceased to care... but I am caring again now and really really hope he stays.
Hope to keep in touch better this week, Calyx I hope your DH has stayed good this w/end and SS I hope your ex just behaves!!
Lala x

maby66 · 18/08/2011 14:03

Can I ask you to read this and give me some perspective please......

I'm M,44 and got married to my wife in 2000. She is 7 years younger than me, and is also the younger sister of my close friend. We have 2 children, m8 and f9 - soon to be 10. We dated/lived together for around 2 years before marriage. I have a senior position in my company, she has hardly worked apart from the last couple of years.

When my first child was born, I was at the time addicted to online gaming. I didn't do the right thing and was not supportive. My wife has always held this against me, even though that has not been the case for 6/7 years. As a consequence she started to set herself up with a social life separate from me.

We moved house and began to mix with new people from the childrens school. My wife through herself into this and began to see people almost everyday. She also cranked up her drinking level, and I was unhappy about that. I didn't want to go out because of the things that would happen when she was drunk.

This turned into me being a party pooper/not wanting to socialise and she was telling people how I was older than her and not as much fun. So it wasn't great, but not critical yet. No arguments, no problems that impacted the children - but her drinking was getting more out of hand. I was also suffering from work related stress/depression.

Then we get hit by something worse. Her mother was murdered in Jan 2009. I wont go into details but it was bad. My wife pretty much had a breakdown. Self harming, bulimia, cutting herself, hitting her head on the walls and floors. Massive mood swings. All exacerbated by drinking, which to be fair, I was doing also. She had a huge tattoo on her back which she knew I was not happy about. On the day of her mother funeral she said she wanted to have a party to send her off and was doing cocaine with people she invited. I hit the roof, as I saw it as a betrayal of trust by not just her, but the friends that she had done it with/got it from - parents from school - and told them so directly. She apologised eventually, but continued to associate with them.

We got through the trial, but her behaviour continued - it became noticeable to other people, she was drinking during the day and there were times I now know when the children could have been endangered.

She had always fantasised during sex about other people, which I was willing to go along with as a fantasy, but not actually enact. I knew she had "obsessions" with people and would fixate on them. She ended up being unfaithful twice, both times while drunk, both times with other women.

Last year the drinking came to a head and she was admitted to a clinic for a 5 week period of therapy and drying out - I was left to look after the kids. I was resentful to a point as she just decided one day to go - no warning, and just expected me to deal with everything. I also felt (as did others) that for a good part of it she didn't take it seriously, but treated it as a holiday.

She came out and has remained sober ever since, and I believe she has also stayed away from drugs. She had a recovery plan, and was supposed to go to AA/12 steps. She did, but even now, after over a year, she does not have a sponsor, and I don't think she has ever shared.

I began to get the feeling she was using the meetings as a social event. When she came out of the clinic, she had made a lot of noise about whether we should remain married (we had therapy prior to her going in) but she was also told as part of her therapy that she should take things slowly and not rush headlong into decisions. I make a big effort to change my behaviours again, to reflect things she has said, make time for us to be together and so on.

Come to this year and I realise that she is distant, and although we get along without arguments we aren't really connected. Sex is infrequent and seems a chore. To cut a long story short she had started a friendship with one of the dads from school (also married) and although she swore blind they were never physical, she had hidden email accounts. Either with his encouragement or as a next step from her friendship with im, she also set up a profile on an adult site and was messaging men, women and couples and exchanging photos. Again, she swears it never went further. She said she was looking for excitement.

I told her to leave, and she moved out and I stayed in the house with the kids.

We are now 4/5 months down the line. We went to therapy a couple of times, and I was prepared to let her come back if she could commit to trying - weekly sessions, probably seperate beds, total honesty and communication.

She said that she wanted to be on her own for a while, and I said it was a deal breaker, as I couldn't see how she could say she was trying to fix things if she was so fixated on being out of the house - that I felt it would give her license to do what she wanted while having a safety net to fall back into if she didn't like. So we made the separation permanent, and started to talk about divorce.

She has got a new place, and we share the kids. We don't particularly speak, unless it's about the kids - who have coped amazingly well. When we have talked she always comes back to "love you but not in love with you", "want to be alone" and so on. Since coming out of the clinic she has cut herself off from many of her older friends and sought the company of those she has met in AA.

From a bit of reading and family/al anon sessions I have been to, I think she is still feeding an addictive personality - she's just replaced the booze with something else - obsessing about her life/hanging out with other addicts who wont be judgemental/she has got more piercings done and so on - like a mid life crisis.

Today I pressed her on some things and she revealed that she had started a sexual relationship with a man from her AA group older than me. She said there was no physical attraction, she just got some comfort from it. This is after telling everyone around her for the last few years that we were incompatible because I was older than her.

I also feel cheated on her reasoning - she says in one breath that if she missed me she would have tried to make a go of things, while in another admitting that ever since she came out of the clinic she was distancing herself from me.

So where do I go. I'm by nature a "carer" - I know I can't fix the things that are wrong in her, but I'm also caught about not wanting to just give up - especially when I feel the injustice that I don't think she has even tried....

LalaDipsey · 18/08/2011 16:27

Hi M,

Oh what a time you have had. You have asked for opinions and I must qualify first by saying I obviously don't know you, or your wife, and my opinion is only that and you must take from it what you will.
TBH, Although the drinking and the horrendous murder of her mother will without doubt have been major major impactful incidences; I think her behaviour now just clearly says that the relationship between you and her as anything other than co-parents is over. She is not missing you, she is not in love with you, she is having sex with someone else, she doesn't want you back and doesn't want to live with you.
Don't think of it as giving up - think about it as giving YOUR life a chance to develop without having to think about what your wife needs and seeing what is out there for you - and hopefully that is an adult, healthy, loving, committed relationship with someone who makes your toes curl!
Good luck
Lala

secretsquirrel1 · 18/08/2011 16:49

Maby66

I'm very sorry to hear what a horrible time you've been having.

At the end of the day, whatever else has happened in your lives, the bottom line is that you have been deeply affected by her drinking habits.

Alanon may help you - it has certainly helped a lot of us on this thread to take the focus off the problem drinker and to put it back onto ourselves. You sound like you are at the bottom of a very long food chain....and at the end of your te

I'm at work so can't answer more at the moment but will write more tomorrow.

Hang in there.

SSX

secretsquirrel1 · 20/08/2011 04:18

Maby66

How are you?

I've re-read your post. I'm sorry, I missed the bit about you having been to Al-anon.

I would say that despite everything your partner has done you somehow still feel beholden to her - could this be because you still feel incredibly guilty about the online gambling from before?

And what's the big deal about the 7 year age gap? Soounds like this is being used as an excuse by her.

I would still reiterate what I said before; that once you take the focus off her and what she is doing, you may find you have a different outcome. She knows that she can behave as badly as she likes, you will always be there for her because you've got stuck on the 'merry-go-round'. You need to get yourself off it.

Do you honestly feel that you can have a happy healthy honest relationship with her whilst she is behaving the way she is?

I don't think she knows what she wants - but you mustn't be manipulated anymore.

Stop torturing yourself with what she may/may not be doing. Start living yourself; you owe that much to your kids because they certainly won't thank you for putting all your lives on hold for her.

ATB,
SSX

Calyx · 20/08/2011 08:17

Maby66. I feel for you and it sounds like a difficult situation for you. I agree with SS and Lala about trying to focus on and live for yourself and not her. I know it is difficult and sometimes you might have to be strict with yourself in order to stop thinking about what she might be doing. I find it hard myself but find coming here and talking about it helps me to then put it to one side so I can then log off and go and do something to look after myself (cup of tea, read a book, go for a walk) without obsessing about my DH.

I hope things start to smooth out soon for you.

I'm having a good week, DH continues to be sober and lovely and I am trying not to allow pessimism into my head ('how long will this last')! He knows if it all starts up again it would be the end and seems to be enjoying life rather than looking for excuses to drink. He got paid yesterday and went to the shops and got the shopping for the week and has been enthusing about what meals we are going to have - steak tonight, he's got ingredients for things he's been meaning to make for ages for this week. I feel lucky and happy. He has had one or two cans only on two nights last week and most of the time has had none (even though he has had some money left).

I hope your DH is continuing to be chilled LaLa and that yours has calmed down and arranged something more solid about access SS. Smile

Have a good weekend everyone x

LalaDipsey · 20/08/2011 11:08

Hiya
Maby66 - I hope you let us know your thoughts on our comments - I do hope I did not offend you with my post.
Calyx - Woo-Hoo!!! That's great news I also hope your DH keeps it up.
My DH has begun to slip.... started smoking again (which is definitely the lesser of the two evils altho I hate it too I would rather he smoked and not drank than the other way round) and came home with a bottle of 'Oh look, it's only 8%' wine - and because of this he drank the whole bottle (this was Weds night). Thurs and last night he drank white wine (he tends to drink red when trying to cut down as he drinks less of it; I always know when he moves back onto white that it's cos he wants the better 'hit' he gets from it and he will restrain his drinking less). I tried to check how much he had drank this morning - there was a bottle with about 2 tenths in it downstairs - if this lasted 2 nights then fine but I don't believe that, however I didn't see an empty bottle either (and he doesn't hide his empties).
His behaviour, however, has been fine (So Far!!). When he came home Weds and said 'I've had a crappy day so it's all going downhill - I'm smoking again', I said 'Well I hope your moods don't come back as I've really enjoyed the husband I've had for the last couple of weeks'. He promised it would all be ok............ watch this space!!!!!
Wishing you all a good weekend, SS I echo what Calyx said about your dh and access
Lala.

maby66 · 20/08/2011 11:54

Thank you all for your kind words. After her being out of the house for months, I guess I thought I was coping better, and was surprised in myself how much it affected me. The post I made was very much a venting mechanism.
I felt extremely low for a couple of days, but Thursday night, after reading things here and elsewhere, I decided that I needed to begin to take back my control.

I wrote her a letter to say goodbye. I believe this is something used in addiction therapy, and I'm sure I am suffering co-dependency to a greater or lesser extent.

I was not nasty, just matter of fact about why I had to say goodbye to her in order to protect myself and the children.

My great sadness is that we were truly a couple, and she always tells me that no one has ever been able to know her like I do, not even her family - so I have a very good idea about where her path is/will take her, and it will hurt me/the children at some point even more than it has.

But you are right that I cannot be beholden to her - as they say, I must let her go with love.

I will continue to check in here.

Thank you.

Calyx · 20/08/2011 17:32

Maby ((hug)) it is sad Sad but I believe with my whole heart that you can find yourself so much happier and healthier for having this closure for yourself.

You never know but that she might look honestly at herself when she believes that you have finally made that clean break and she is alone because of the behaviour. She has gone through the mill poor thing but she has to try to come out the other side and start thinking about a future with positive steps to take and becoming healthy and finding her own peace again. She is still young too and stranger things have happened. However you need to do the same and the letter you have written, the venting and support you can (alwaysSmile) do here hopefully is your beginning.

I am a bit dubious as my DH has 4 cans, opened one at 5. He says they will do him all evening. We will see (fingers crossed then I put it out of my mind and relax and enjoy this lovely sunny evening)

Have a peaceful weekend everyone x

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/08/2011 18:10

Calyx

Its still not looking very good is it?.

He's still been drinking this week and now he's got four cans for this evening; he opened one at 5pm. His drinking continues pretty much unabated.

What's the longest period of time he's ever gone without alcohol to your knowledge?.

Did you read "Codependent No More" written by Melodie Beattie?. Its a book you ought to read. Its a book that maby66 certainly should read.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause it
You cannot control it (that is a fact for you to bear in mind as well LalaDipsey)
You cannot cure it

I very much believe that alcoholism is a family disease; the whole family need help and support as they all become very much affected by the actions of the alcoholic in their lives. The non alcoholic in these situations often ends up as the codependent or enabler or a combination of both; a poor situation for them too.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/08/2011 18:19

Calyx

Bet you a crisp £5 note that he will never get around to calling AA either.

He is neither ready or able to face up to the realities of his own alcoholism; he's still mired in denial and if he thinks he can control his own drinking by "only" having 2 can of an evening he is still in that denial mindset. He cannot actually drink at all. He's not at all serious about tackling his own alcoholism and perhaps never will be either. He could lose everything and still drink; you do realise that don't you? There are no guarantees here.

Do not take any notice of his words; look at his actions. He has not acted.

His primary relationship is with drink and alcohol is a cruel mistress.

It does not do you any good to remain within this situation as his wife; it really does not.

Calyx · 20/08/2011 23:49

Thanks Atilla Sad
He only had 2 and has 2 left in the fridge. Things are better, I'm changing myself (codependent no more - check) and he hasn't been drunk or annoying although I am still on watchful mode, which I'm working on.

I will leave him if it goes back downhill and that to me is the difference this time. I'm living in the now and for myself as much as possible. Just going to see what happens but I am enjoying the now.

Night all x