SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

[ginnny]

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

Hi calyx,

re your comment:-

"He only had 2 and has 2 left in the fridge. Things are better, I'm changing myself (codependent no more - check) and he hasn't been drunk or annoying although I am still on watchful mode, which I'm working on".

The two in the fridge will likely be drunk and replaced by more alcohol.
You probably hope that things are better:(. Look at his actions, not just words as words are cheap and these people promise so much but fail on delivering.

Do read Codependent No More if you have not already done so. You need outside support and Al-anon could well help; trying to change one of your own behaviours is very difficult and can take a heck of a long time. In the meantime you are still in the midst of his drinking.

No more being in watchful mode; policing or watching what he drinks is a waste of time and energy on your part. Your main priority is you, you are truly not responsible for him although you likely feel very responsible towards him.

You can walk away from him and his dysfunction if you so choose. Its okay to do so, you won't have failed by walking away.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause it
You cannot control it
You cannot cure it

But he hasn't got drunk or annoying since I came back. I see that as better in actions as well as words.

I do understand that this is probably temporary. I am not going to borrow trouble and am going to wait and see. I'm still on 12stepforums (online al anon site) and reading CNM and courage to change and also books 1 and 4 (separation decisions) of the getting them sober books.

I would need an incident of drunkenness or whatever to make the step. Walking away while he is on 2 cans a few evenings a week would be unfair to him imo. I still want to ttc a child with him even if I had to leave him due to drink after. My mum raised us alone and I would have support from both families whatever happened.

I think I am doing the right thing for myself at the moment but if (when) it goes pear shaped I have prepared myself and DH for me leaving him.

I do feel in my bones that it will go wrong and I'll be back for support though . But currently I haven't felt this peaceful for a while.

"I still want to ttc a child with him even if I had to leave him due to drink after"

Now I am beyond words:(. Oh Calyx, read that again and see how ridiculous and fatuous that comment actually is. It breaks my heart.

If you want a child great, but please I beg of you don't have one with this man. Why bring a child into this, and for whom exactly?. This man will be no father to your child, he's barely a H to you now. He's still drinking and you're still there around him, enabling him and being his codependent. Alcoholism does not just affect the alcoholic, it affects the thought processes and actions of all those around them.

What's all this about "being unfair to him". Sigh!!. What about you in all this; do your feelings not matter?. Where has he ever been truly considerate to you. He has not called AA, nor does he want to.

What is this "getting them sober" book all about?. Again you are taking on responsibility for his problem!!. You are the last person who can help him here and I sincerely do not mean that at all unkindly.

I want a child even if I'm a one parent family. If I leave I will never have one. I'm 40 in January and will not have time to split with DH, heal/find myself again after, meet mister ideal and start the whole thing again. This is on my terms. I appreciate and understand your frustration and am grateful for your time and effort. If (as per the last 2 years of ttc) it doesn't happen then I'll have to accept it.

Lala you understand don't you? Having been through similar? Would you go back and decide not to ttc if you could have seen into the future? I'm seriously keen to know.

How is wanting a child ridiculous and fatuous? If he can't stay sober after it's conceived then it's his problem and I am capable and willing to go it alone. Far worse to leave now while he is making an effort and I am theoretically still fertile. His sperm has been tested and was good in motility, morphology and volume. Would it be ridiculous to get it from a sperm bank and go it alone? MIL is desperate for a GC and would back my decision to leave DH even if pregnant so my child would have grandparents both sides, access to their father as appropriate etc etc.

Getting them sober books were recommended to me by al anon friend when I first went. Detachment help and so on in book 1. Other books focusing on how to look after yourself and how to discuss the problem with family etc. Separation decisions one is as title says. Small books with other people's experiences and stuff. The title getting them sober is probably to catch the eye of an alcoholic's partner but it does say if you do manage to stop enabling/rescuing/codependent behaviour there is more chance that your alcoholic will get themselves to AA and 'get sober'

'Barely a husband to you now' hmm you see he is a good husband sober:

Compliments and support
Sympathy when ill
Cooks everything as I hate cooking
Doesn't laugh/slag off any efforts if I try the odd recipe but bigs up the result
Works and never been off or late
Empties bins/hoovers if I ask
Doesn't moan if I watch next top model although will grumble at xfactor
Bought me a sunflower in a pot and cacti the week after I moaned we had no plants
Does the shopping on his day off work
Gives me money from weekly wage as my monthly wage pays the direct debits
We like the same types of music
He doesn't hog the tv and the remote is all mine
Is proud of me and my career
Doesn't moan or obstruct if I want to visit sister/go do yoga/go to anything
Is happy to go to gigs I like even if he's not a fan of that band

At worst he was drunk 3 days out of 7. He can and does go without alcohol for a month or 6 weeks and during those times is not moody/stroppy with me. Usually if we are short on cash. If we have money that's when the drinking creeps up; he knows now I will leave if it does.

You are 39; you are not past it re having children All I am suggesting is that you think twice about having a child with this. particular individual in the first place; what you wrote earlier was very sad. You have a choice re your H; a child does not. Your MIL is probably desperate for you to have a child but then again she does not now have to live with the realities of her son's alcoholism. You stop yourself from meeting someone new by writing that as well, you do not know for a fact that you would remain childless if you left.

You read it wrong; your desire to have a child is not fatuous, it is your earlier comment that is and that is what I was referring to. To actually have a child with this man is not fair on you and certainly unfair on the child. How on earth will your H cope with the demands of a child?. What sort of role model would he provide to the child?. It could be much harder for you to leave then as well because you will be up to your neck in emotional and financial turmoil along with thinking you're depriving said child of a dad.

Your post of 1st August is very sad. What's happened to the fire in your belly?. I just think also he's had more than enough opportunity and support from you. Any change has to come from within him and the will is just not there; it may never be there and where will you be then?.

He may well be a "good" H when sober but he's still having an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and puts that first and foremost to the detriment of your overall mental health and relationship with him. You've had 10 years of this and what is there to show for it?. Him being drunk half the week is not good and the his whole drinking pattern is unpredictable so how could he be left with a baby?

If nothing else Calyx I hope my comments make you think more about you and your life as it is now. Good luck to you, I mean that most sincerely.

They really are making me think Atilla, I repeat I am grateful for you taking the time and energy to try and help me. I am and will keep thinking and discussing it (here, my sister and mum, al anon forum and with God/HP) and when my path is clear to me I will do my best to take it.

Serenity, courage, wisdom. Love that prayer.

Practically, how to start an I'm leaving you conversation when he is sober and keeping to 2 cans a night - I cannot justify it to myself so could not do it to him. I am happy at the moment and since I came back from my sister's a couple of weeks ago. Today he still has the other 2 cans left in the fridge. This morning he got up and made toasted baguettes with bacon and scrambled eggs in; we went and bought some plant pots/liners, repotted the sunflower which was great as I have never potted a plant before and he showed me how to do it, held it steady while I packed compost round it. He is cooking dinner tonight and we're going to watch a Robert De Niro film.

My fingernails are lovely as I haven't bitten them for ages. My work colleague told me last week that I am looking much happier and more relaxed and she is glad because I was looking anxious/stressed last year. I think it was al anon and Codependent No More that made me start to assert myself and to learn that if I learn to look after number one, everything and everyone else just have to deal with it. You guys here made me go to al anon and read the book.

I believe that I am still codependent and also know that going by what normally happens in this type of relationship, in the future he will revert to previous drunken behaviour. I now have a plan B - just leave the first time it happens or I notice the pattern beginning again. But plan A (currently) is stay with my loving, sober DH and try for a baby which is the reason I married him after 8 years of seeing the signs and blanking them out of ignorance.

I also went for counselling on my own when I was going to face to face al anon meetings last year. He said work on self esteem and assertiveness, I have tried and I do respect myself better and have boundaries which I didn't before.

Thanks again for your help and I don't take offence to 'I told you so' (if/when I come back on in tears!)

Hope everyone is enjoying their Sundays

Attila! I keep spelling your name wrong even though I know how to spell it argh!

sorry

Hi Calyx

Biccie gladly accepted:).

Please don't fret at all about spelling my pen-name wrong; that's the very least of your problems.

I won't say I told you so, not my style. I just don't think this current happy state will last all that long and I think you realise that as well deep down. Not too long ago either in one of your posts you talked of divorce.

Yes you are still codependent and will remain as long as you are within this situation; many of these types of relationships are mired in codependency.

You now have a Plan B which is good. Still not sure about Plan A or in particular trying for a baby particularly because I do not regard him as either being very loving towards you or at the very least sober all the time. I think it could all blow up in your face and with a child the cracks could become every more present. I realise you want a child and that's okay but is this really the ideal situation to bring a child into?. Child does not have a choice. That's what I want you to really think about and if you were standing in front of me I'd be saying the same thing to you. I don't do bullshit light and fluffy!.

At the very least with regards to this current Plan A give yourself a time limit re this and stick to it to the letter. Take no notice of his words; watch his actions closely with regards to talking about supposedly wanting to address his drink problem. I argue too that if he truly cared he would seek proper help of his own accord and without you behind him supporting him to do so.

All I want is to make you think - and for you to be happy because you are bloody well worth it (to paraphrase Cheryl).

[grin]@paraphrasing Cheryl

Thanks Attila

Hi Calyx
I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from. The desire to have a child is so all-consuming; and when you add in logically the time taken to leave your DH, time to meet s/one else and then start ttc ?... I understand that by leaving him you could close that door forever and that is almost unthinkable to you.
My DH behaviour in the first 18 mths of DD life was ABYSMAL. He didn't really help at all with DD and his reaction to any sort of request was appalling; he was also very verbally abusive to me and very short tempered with DD. I didn't confront his behaviour because I didn't want to make waves until I was pg again ? after 5 years and several IVF attempts to conceive DD, I was desperate for a sibling for her and knew, like you, that the time taken to split from DH, then meet s/one else was too great to risk and that staying with DH was my 'best bet'. I knew that another child may send him over the edge and I said to a couple of RL friends that I would rather be a single mother of 2 than a married mum of 1. I would not change a thing. I still think confronting him earlier would have been a risk as if his behaviour had continued I would have had to follow through and was not ready to without at least an attempt for a sibling. Funnily enough, he refused to do IVF again for about a year, until this April, because he said his behaviour was too bad to bring another child into ? so he was aware, he just didn't do anything about it until January.
I now have the strength to know I will not put DD through it if his behaviour deteriorates again, and I will not being my children up with an actively alcoholic husband. HOWEVER ? I wanted the children first.
Attila ? I know this is bonkers, but unless you have been ttc, and failing, for a long time ? oh gosh it is a place I would never wish on my worst enemy. Infertility is the cruellest cruellest thing.
Huggles Lala

Attila ? I know this is bonkers, but unless you have been ttc, and failing, for a long time ? oh gosh it is a place I would never wish on my worst enemy. Infertility is the cruellest cruellest thing.

Been there and got the t-shirt on that subject. I had fertility treatment a decade ago. I became a parent as a direct result of surgery.

Thanks Lala, I understand you too as it's about the same as I'm thinking of it.

I know that the child doesn't have a choice, but I feel that having me to bring him/her up, with the support of family, that child won't be any worse off than I myself was (and my twin) when my mum brought us up without our father (who has passed away but they separated when we were babies, apparently he had a gambling addiction and left in the middle of the night so mum wouldn't be having to deal with his creditors).

Attila I'm sorry if all this has brought up feelings from the past about infertility and I'm glad to see that surgery managed to bring you a child. Thanks again for your efforts to help and I'm still thinking and praying about it all.

Off to do some housework, see you later x

Hi Calyx,

Oh no, that's quite alright re subfertility. I often post on the conception boards as well as I have two diagnoses and give the benefit of my varied experiences re fertility tests and gynae surgery to others.

Getting back to you though and your childhood, would you potentially want history to repeat itself with your child?. Would you really want your child to potentially experience childhood without a father being fully around because of his drinking problem or in your potential case a child who has a drunkard for a dad?. Your mother's life was very hard; it is to her credit that she raised two children after separating from her H when you were babies. Would you really be able and or willing to do that i.e separate from your H with your own child?. It would not be at all easy and you could also be wracked not just with financial and emotional worries but also with guilt by thinking, "oh I am deprieving him/her of his/her Dad".

Of course the desire to have a child is all consuming; that is not the issue here and never has been.

I can only reiterate I am not suggesting don't have a child at all. I am just suggesting that you think long and hard before you do become pg by your H. As I stated before, you have a choice re your H, your child does not.

Hi Attila, your words in your last message have made my heart flutter because they are very true and real. I wish my mum could realise/believe how well she has done by us, how hard she has worked (looking after both my GP's until each passed away, granny aged 97 when she died) And - to have quit both drinking (occasional binges, not often and only for a few years) and smoking (in the past year). I would not choose her experience, is what I'm thinking now. Plus...

The bubble has burst he came in after work today at 7ish and is not drunk - oh no. He's taken an E.

I smilingly greeted him and his friend, made them both tea and calmly and pleasantly removed myself and my iPhone to the spare room. I might watch a DVD that my sis gave me ('Lost in Austen') in here. Told DH when he came in three time 'to say hi' that I was going to watch TV in here by myself because I'm not hanging around to get annoyed at him being on chemicals. He did say 'but I'm not drunk' ha ha ha. I am being sweetness and light and gently but firmly closing the door.

Here we go, I'm thinking definitely separated as of tomorrow and I will think about divorce when we're no longer in the same flat.

You couldn't make it up (it would sound too corny). I'm not embarrassed about sticking up for him until yesterday but I really don't want to change my mind on this. No more chances, I don't care if he goes to AA or anything. No more chances.

At least I didn't get PG - I need to think some more about what my mum has been through

Thanks for this thread everyone. Might watch that DVD now. I can here the two of them chatting (quietly and with the TV on).

'hear' the two of them.

My post today is so ironic after yesterday's I am halfway between laughing out loud and being mortified! It was going to happen but one can hope

Hi Calyx & Lala (& Hi Attila-waves)
I am away again this week with sporadic internet access.
However, I will give you some 'Alanon conference approved literature' for you to read and to keep.

This is the alcoholic speaking to you.

"I am an alcoholic. I need your help.

Don't lecture me, blame or scold me. You wouldn't be angry at me for having TB or diabetes. Alcoholism is a disease, too.

Don't pour out my liquor; it's a waste because I can always find ways of getting more.

Don't let me provoke your anger. If you attack me verbally or physically, you will only confirm my bad opinion about myself. I hate myself enough already.

Don't let your love and anxiety for me lead you into doing what I ought to do for myself. If you assume my responsibilities, you make my failure to assume them permanent. My sense of guilt will be increased, and you will feel resentful.

Don't accept my promises. I'll promise anything to get off the hook. But the nature of my illness prevents me from keeping my promises, even though I mean them at the time.

Don't make empty threats. Once you have made a decision, stick to it.

Don't believe everything I tell you; it may be a lie. Denial of reality is a symptom of my illness. Moreover, I'm likely to lose respect for those I can fool too easily.

Don't let me take advantage of you or exploit you in any way. Love cannot exist for long without the dimension of justice.

Don't cover up for me or try in any way to spare me the consequences of my drinking.

Don't lie for me, pay my bills, or meet my obligations. It may avert or reduce the very crisis that would prompt me to seek help. I can continue to deny that I have a drinking problem as long as you provide an automatic escape for the consequences of my drinking.

Above all, do learn all you can about alcoholism and your role in relation to me. Go to open AA meetings when you can. Attend Al-Anon meetings regularly, read the literature and keep in touch with Al-Anon members. They're the people who can help you see the whole situation clearly.
I love you. Your alcoholic"

I cry whenever I read that (sad)

But it has really really helped me to have a better understanding of what the alcoholic is going through.

Hi,
Oh Gosh - so much can happen in a few short hours....
Attila - I am sorry for assuming you wouldn't understand - after 7 years of infertility I have got used to assuming people don't and I am sorry for that. You are right, you know, and I knew all the time I was persuading DH to do IVF again that it was bonkers; but I made my decision with all the facts and if it wasn't with dh, I would have sought donor sperm in Denmark, to try and have another baby.
Calyx - oh hon my heart goes out to you. In every way - for your DH actions, for how that makes you feel, and for the consequences of his actions and for you now seriously contemplating ending your marriage and what this means for you and ttc. I don't feel I am in any position to advise about your DH, however, in all seriousness, the donor clinics in both Denmark and the Ukraine are supposed to be excellent. Your hubbie can take away your dreams of a happy, lasting marriage, but I hope and pray he doesn't take away your chance of being a mummy.
SS - wow that is powerful stuff. My DH is drinking a little bit more again and last night was just a little bit more ratty...... I know the spiral is starting again and I just hope and pray I can stop it disintegrating for the next year or so..... who knows.
Loads of love to you all
Lala

hi guys im just saying hello ......and asking if it's ok to post here ? .

I would like to ask many questions ?

Creamola, hi and of course you can post here, that's what it's for. I'm going to work but will look in this evening.

Me and DH haven't had the talk yet. Got in from work yesterday and he was making dinner. I said 'you don't have to cook for me' and he asked why not so I just said 'you know why not'. He said he was making dinner anyway (gnocchi with pesto then lamb chops, makes me feel heartbroken as this is him showing his love for me ). I said 'you will need to pack' and he just said 'where would I go?' and I told him that's not my problem. After dinner I sat in churning emotions and eventually said we would talk about it over the next few days.

I don't know what I want . Divorce? Separation? Neither but I am not living with his getting drunk so I have to follow through.

Hi Folks
Creamola - we will help as much as we can.
Calyx - Oh hon. I know that you have to follow through if you don't want to live like this anymore, but also you don't have to rush thro if you don't want to. It's your life and your decisions so just keep deep breathing and try to decide what you want now.
Huggles xx

Thank you to everyone for posting. I don't feel alone anymore.

Wrote a long message and now lost it- have approx 10mins until DD nap over so have missed the opportunity- but maybe best... as seeing it written down was too much.

Last night worst in a while. ADs ran out and red wine flowed in which resulted in threats to end it all. What do I do next? Have managed to get more ADs from GP this morning and made him take one. H is still in bed.

Do I ring and demand to speak to the doctor? Can I do that?

Any advice welcome.

Hello - its Ginnny here!!! I know I de-registered a while back and haven't been on here for months but I felt I had to come back and update you all on my situation.
Last time I came on here I was waiting to go to court and exP was still giving us loads of abuse.
Well we went to court yesterday and exP got found GUILTY of assault on me and DP and also guilty of forced entry. He has to go back for sentencing after they have seen our Personal Victim Statements and got probation reports.
His defence lawyer tried tore into me in the court, he tried to make out that the whole thing was a lie and that I was the one with a drink problem, but thank God the magistrates saw through him and found him guilty.
I looked at his face in the courtroom and it was full of hatred and spite, and there was no trace at all of the man I used to love. He is bloated and fat and his eyes are turning yellow. I was so relieved to leave that court and go home with my lovely DP, who since we met last September has been my rock.
Finally my nightmare is over and I can move on.
Calyx & Lala - I wish you both all the luck in the world. Alcoholics don't change but we can and there is light at the end of this horrible tunnel!
Secretsquirrel - thanks so much for encouraging me to go to Alanon a few years ago!
Hope everyone else is OK - I will carry on lurking about on here to check up on you all!!!

Hey - just thought I would post to say that after the events of last week I am feeling much better.
I went back over some things that I had been given when my wife went into the Priory, and the family support that was offered - particularly the co-dependency elements. I can see so much in there that I am glad I did what I did last week.
It will be hard to re-focus my attention back on me, and ignore my desire to focus on her, but I must do this, for mine and my children's benefit. I am in no position to offer advice to others, but I have ordered this:
www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

to help me through the coming time.
best regards to all.