Wondering if DH is using Cocaine....

[pinkcorsage]

I know he has done drugs when he was younger - but only recreational with friends etc. He is now in his 40's with respectable job and two children. I am convinced that he is using coke sometimes, as he is a terrible liar and often comes home with one bloodshot eye, saying he got dust in his eye, or last night it was that he had been at the pub and had a bag of peanuts and rubbed salt in his eye. Also on these occasions his breath has a sort of metallic smell. When we first met about five years ago, we went out to a big event and he went off to get a drink for us. He came back about half an hour later with no drinks! But rubbing his nose and sniffing. I was fuming but didn't know him well enough to confront him at the time. Also we went to a friends wedding 2 years ago and he went off to the toilet for ages then came back saying that he had perked up a bit and he was quite restless. I probably ruined my friends wedding but I confronted him this time and he said I was being ridiculous and that he hadn't done that in years, but I know for a fact that other people at the wedding were snorting coke (he knew nobody there so not sure how that all came about.) Anyway just not sure how to tackle this. I have tried to just forget about the occasions I suspect as I know I can't prove anything, and if I say anything he will just deny it and we will have a massive argument. I know that if I am right then it is only occasional use, but still.....I don't want to be with someone who is lying to me and doing drugs when we have a family. Or does anyone think he's telling the truth????!

I think enabler means someone who is basically giving a person the green light to go ahead and take the drugs. They are not actively discouraging it, iyswim.

These posts are very brave and honest, but I'm afraid when I see the devastation and destruction rendered to peoples lives through drug smuggling and growing, I have little sympathy for those taking the drugs.

Anyone seen this film? About 3 teenage girls who are persuaded to smuggle drugs in their bodies for money. Very enlightening and harrowing.

corset, if your dp knows the man who wrote that article, I would tell the guy what your dp is doing. Shame him into stopping. That's what I would do with all these recreational drug users - shame them into giving up. And if that doesn't work, do you really want to be with someone who is that selfish?

Rhubarb if Cocaine was made legal or de-criminalised would that change your view?

You seem (rightly) upset by the awful stuff which surrounds Cocaine, if the illegal aspect of it were removed that would improve things, no?

namechangingdudette

If my post has made you think and that was its only intention then this can only be a good thing for you.

Drugs, even the legal over the counter ones, can become physically addictive. Some people can and do become dependent on such things and misuse. You read of the cases of people addicted to painkillers (and I have seen that as well in people I know). No-one can tell in advance whether they will become physically and mentally dependent. We all assume that we will not and that we can manage and control.

I think your arrangement suits him far more than you because he gets to do as he pleases but does not experience the anxiety you have when he does go out and take cocaine albeit occasionally and on a few nights a year. He is taking a massive gamble with his health because there is always the chance that it could all go horribly wrong for him and end up dead (am sorry to be so blunt here but it does not always end well). And where would that leave you?. Cocaine is often mixed with impurities like cement dust, ammonia and other assorted chemicals to bulk it out.

Is he the sort of man also who talks about crime and criminality yet does not accept any connection to his occasional drug use?. That money he pays is funding crime locally and worldwide, no two ways about it.

Heaven forbid that cocaine was decriminalised. Don't think the general Columbian populace would want that either. Too many murders and ruined lives have come about as a result of industrial scale cocaine production.

Won't even begin to discuss the costs to the environment where cocaine is produced let alone the number of lives lost at the gangs hands. Full scale production of cocaine is effecting Columbia's economy to its complete and utter detriment. Murder there is commonplace and happens daily.

CoteD'Azur - we will agree to differ but I still find that man's attitude hypocritical. Telling PinkCorsage that he could no longer be with her if she smoked again but at the same time perhaps using illegal sustances himself is very hypocritical on his part.

Our arrangement suits us both TBH and the anxiety I feel is not as great as it used to be. I know that there is a small chance (As with any recreational drug use) that he could die. I also know that he uses drugs 'responsibly'. He is also very aware of the quality of teh drugs he uses and though I won't go into why, he has (on the few occassions that he takes them) a cleaner supply than most.

"Is he the sort of man also who talks about crime and criminality yet does not accept any connection to his occasional drug use?. That money he pays is funding crime locally and worldwide, no two ways about it"

I am not sure what you mean by this. he is not overly daily Mail-ish about crime and criminality, he is no more of a criminal that millions of people in this country.

As I said to Rhubarb, if drugs were decriminalised would this make you feel better about them?

Unfortunately, cocaine growing is such big business that I doubt making it legal would make that much difference. They would just take over farmers' lands with the law on their side instead. And they would have the law on their side as the government would reap the benefits of this lucrative drug. If you think the Columbian government is corrupt now, just think what it would be like if they took over the cocaine growing empire!

Things may be slightly better in this country. The money would go to the government instead of drug and arms dealers. Rehab clinics could be set up to help those addicted. Although I've a feeling it would be like cigarettes - the government make far too much money from the tax on cigarettes to whole-heartedly try and eliminate them.

And you wouldn't get young girls dying in agony because the condoms of drugs they've swallowed have burst in their stomachs.

However, it's not legal. So whilst your other halves are out enjoying their snorts of charlie - other people are paying the price.

"However, it's not legal. So whilst your other halves are out enjoying their snorts of charlie - other people are paying the price"

true.

Though not something I can personally change unfortunately.

I don't use cocaine (I do buy nestle products though) so fortunately I am not breaking the law and I am not part of the problem.
Unfortunately you are preaching to the wrong person here .

He does read mumsnet, he will probably read this. I don't think he will respond though.

My OH is quite aware of all the stuff which surrounds the Cocaine 'industry' but like many other pleasure giving products which are used by millions it sadly will probably not stop him from enjoying the drug occassionally and as safely as possible, illegal or not.

This is true for many many people, some of whom may well be friends of yours but you just don't know it.

I still think there is denial here and that is sad actually because you are intelligent and erudite (your postings come across as intelligent and well worded) and yet here you are stuck in a nether world.

How can a person use such illegal drugs "responsibly"?. For whom?. He's not thinking about you is he when he's using?. He's not being responsible for his own self and you condone these actions by giving him a long leash on which he could possibly hang himself.

Unless as well he is also an analytical chemist he still has no real certainty that what he is taking is pure (well he may be paying more for it but so what). The drug barons who control this don't really care what goes into cocaine; as mentioned they use cement dust and other poisons to bulk it out. He is at the end of a very long chain of criminality and criminal activity. He is culpable by his very usage. That does not leave you in a comfortable position either.

Its a very uncomfortable position to be in, realising as you perhaps do that his cash is funding organised crime. But as it does not affect him directly then he likely has no thoughts about it. These things happen to other people.

Illegal drugs and seeing them being used whilst you grew up have not made either of your lives better or enhanced them in any way have they?. The thrill of same is only but short lived.

"And you wouldn't get young girls dying in agony because the condoms of drugs they've swallowed have burst in their stomachs."

Oh come on

My diamond engagement ring must mean I support 'blood diamonds' & oppressive regimes of Africa. I buy bananas transported from around the world, which means I take no responsibility for global warming. And who knows what is going on with the farmers of the coffee I drink every day.

Hiya again Attila.

I am not sure if you saw my other post where I said

"Am wondering what your idea of someone who uses coke recreationally is? What tends to happen is he goes out on a friday evening (occassionally) to a mate's house where they watch films, play stupid shooting and driving games, catch up, do coke, drink beer, play music etc He comes back early Saturday morning and goes to bed. Usually I am not here when he comes back. I come home, he is still in bed. I leave him in bed and he finally gets up sometime on the Saturday evening and we have a take-away. We both go to bed and sleep until Sunday by which time he is fully recovered. I try to do stuff I want to do over the weekend because I can't be arsed wasting my weekend - I just leave him to it. By the Sunday he's fine, I am fine. He's not out scoring more drugs or looking for his next hit. He's not a junkie"

The way I am interpreting your view/attitude/knowledge/understanding of the way people use drugs recreationally is:

You are very far over on one side of the debate with staunch views informed by a dislike of not just the trade but also the view that drugs = addiction.

I on the other hand am somewhere near the middle where some drugs scare me personally(they can kill as can many other substances or activities) but I believe they can be used responsibly. By that I mean that many users of these kinds of drugs inform themselves of the risk to themselves personally and do not use them in a reckless way.

I don't consider myself in denial, I am informed and I am aware. The 'leash' you say I give him is not a long one. As I have said in my other posts we have come to an agreement which suits us both and there are many conditions attached.

I think we are not polar opposites on this, I am much more in the centre, but I don't want to end up in a fight about it, nor have people tell me that I have some kind of responsibility to make him stop or to leave him. That is not my responsibility.

Ok everyone.........
namechangingdudette - don't think you are hijacking thread at all - didn't mean this to turn into a mass debate (lol!), but i think it is really interesting to see other peoples viewpoints as if we were all sitting looking each other in the eye at a coffee shop then I don't know if everyone would be so honest. Some might, but I think a lot of people still feel uneasy talking about drugs for various reasons.
CoteDAzur - I know that re the wedding - that's why I said in the initial post that I don't quite know how it happened. I know that there were a couple there who I don't know very well, that do coke regularly. They turned up for the evening reception and I think my dh was in the toilet at same time as the fella - prob saw him doing it, was offered some, etc. Don't even know for a fact that he did do it, but that is my theory.
You say "Leave him because he does a few lines a year?" as if it is nothing. You see this is where I think there is a grey area as some people see that as no big deal, and some people like me, don't feel they have to tolerate that. As I've already said, I don't know for certain, but I suspect. If I really felt THAT opposed then I suppose I would have called it quits by now. But I think if I found out now I would be hurt and angry about three things: That he had broken a promise, that he had lied to me and that he was doing it at all.
hayley2u - I have tried the tactic of saying that I won't go mad, but he still denied that. Plus I also felt a bit of a hypocrite as I was lying about my feelings in order to get info out of him!
And also, CoteDAzur, yes he does dislike smoking because it stinks, and also because of the health damaging effects it has, but I also just don't think he likes the idea of me smoking when I haven't done the whole time we've been together.

Attila - With all due respect, I find you woefully ignorant on this subject. Do you have any experience with recreational drugs in general and cocaine in particular?

"Unless as well he is also an analytical chemist he still has no real certainty that what he is taking is pure"

No need to be a chemist. There are simple kits (legally sold) that test purity. You may have seen some on tv, used by police.

"Cocaine is often mixed with impurities like cement dust, ammonia..."

That is one of the more ignorant things I have heard uttered on MN, and that is against some competition

Cocaine is often cut with baby powder - white and dusty, and most importantly, doesn't kill the customer which is kind of bad for business

Cement dust turns into cement when it sees water (like, moist noses) and would result in pieces of concrete in one's nose. Nobody has ever heard of this happening.

Ammonia is a gas and sometimes a liquid. Not a solid. And it is arguably the stinkiest chemical known to man. If it was mixed in anything, you can be sure that nobody would come near it, let alone put it in their noses. Oh and it would of course kill. Very bad for business.

"Drugs, even the legal over the counter ones, can become physically addictive.You read of the cases of people addicted to painkillers. No-one can tell in advance"

Actually, you can. Some substances have a mechanism through which they eventually create dependency in the body (through changed brain chemistry). Others don't.

Opiate-based painkillers (morphine, codeine, etc) are physically addictive. Paracetamol and ibuprofen aren't. So not all painkillers can be physically addictive, and yes, we can tell in advance which ones have risk of addiction.

Similarly, alcohol and cocaine cause physical addiction if used frequently and in substantial doses. Yet there are millions of people using them without being addicts.

Heroin, other opiates, and nicotine are highly addictive, with the vast majority of users physically addicted.

However, ecstacy, and LSD are not physically addicted at all (think paracetamol).

There is nothing unpredictable about any of this. Chemistry is a science, not a philosophy. Something either has chemical pathways to cause physical addiction or it doesn't.

pinkcorsage - I can't decide for you if a few lines of coke per year is big enough a deal to break up your family. Only you can do that.

What I said was my own view. As someone who has done it a few times in the past (and wasn't impressed), I know it is not a very big deal - for me. Certainly not something I would divorce DH over, but then again he wouldn't lie about it to me.

Unfortunately my assertion is indeed correct. Cocaine is filled with impurities like ammonia and cement dust when it is being produced in these rainforest areas and it is made on a mass industrial scale. Not just forgetting the overall cost to the rainforest environment in terms of polution, lives lost. Its a nasty business all told.

I have seen two peoples lives (people I directly know) ruined by cocaine (mainly that and as a result two boys are without their Mother) so I personally have no time for those who say my stance is somehow objectionable to their so called "informed" views.

CoteDAzur, with all due respect, I wasn't asking you to decide this for me. I know that this would break up my family, as it would mean that my dh had repeatedly lied and broken his word on something that he was adamant about. Had he been honest from the start, then who knows what position I would be in at present. But as it stands I am powerless to do anything until I know for sure.

It's interesting to come back to this thread and see how it's developed into a more general discussion about drug use. I hope it's still helping you in your situation pinkcorsage.

I'm glad to see there are a range of opinions and not everyone is condemning recreational drug use. Before I had DD I used to go clubbing once every 2-3 months with a group of friends - we were all responsibile grown-ups in our 30s and 40s and looked forward to these nights like nothing else. It would involve doing a couple of pills and the experiences we had were absolutely amazing. I look back on these nights out with fondness and have absolutely no regrets about this phase in my life.

Maybe me and my friends were lucky in that we were able to use drugs in this way but I've met countless others who were able to do the same. I do of course appreciate that drugs destroy lives and have seen it first hand. But to condemn all drug use is in my view irrational. It would be logical if one had this view to also view all use of alcohol, whether responsible or irresponsible, as evil. Someone who drinks excessively and regularly is a far greater danger, both to themselves and others, than an individual who might do pills or coke a few times a year. There is no place for secrecy between partners/friends however even if this is the mode of use.

Recreational drug use categorically does not lead to addiction - it depends entirely on the personality of the indiviudal and their circumstances. And my heart goes out to those whose lives and the lives of those around them are out of control because of drugs, and that includes alcohol. In an ideal world I suppose there would be no need for mind-altering substances but there always has been and there always will be. Drugs will never go away and the only way to minimise the damage done is to for politicians and world leaders to get together and make this issue a priority. Sadly, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Cote - does that mean then, because it happens with other products, that we should just let it be? Turn a blind eye because that's just life?

Why send aid to Ethopia? Millions of other people are dying through other tragic causes, so why start with that one?

That's basically the logic there isn't it?

if you need rock solid proof, then there are kits you can by to detect drugs. i believe you just swab an area and it turns a different colour if the drug is present. i would google it and get one.

here is a link to the drug test kit...
www.rocksolidpersonalsecurity.com/coketest.html
good luck!

Thanks LuJay, I think someone else suggested that too. It sounds really shady and underhand, and not the sort of thing that I really want to do. But if "incidents" keep happening then I think it is my only option to keep my sanity! It makes me feel quite sad because we went through a bit of a period of distrust at the beginning of our relationship, which most people probably do, but I really felt like we had grown really close and were very honest with each other. If I was to go behind his back and "test" him and it came out positive, then I guess we will both have been dishonest?

Attila - Sorry but you are making it up. For the reasons I listed below, it is ridiculous to even suggest that there would be "cement dust" and ammonia in cocaine, a substance people put in their noses, fgs.

As I said before, cocaine is of course cut with other substances, but these tend to be white powdery things like baby powder or powdered milk. Not cement which would turn into concrete in the nose (ridiculous) or ammonia which smells so bad that nobody would come near it. Ammonia isn't even a solid, so how on earth do you suggest they cut cocaine with it anyway?

Oh and for every "two people" you witnessed ruin their lives through cocaine use, I can point to twenty who take some once or twice a year, when they come across it.

Your experience with these two sad individuals distorts your view. Yes, it can be addictive. No, not everyone is so deep into it. Cocaine is not like nicotine where pretty much everyone using it is physically addicted.

pinkcorsage - Knowing for sure isn't hard. Get the testing wipes or send one hair of his to be tested. I'm fairly sure you can find a lab who will do this for you on a confidential basis.

The real question is what you will do with this information.

Rhubarb - The point was that it is hypocritical to single out cocaine as an industry that harms the environment ('rainforests' ) and has a negative affect on the lives of local population.

This line of argument assumes that we are all totally against all industries that harm environment & indigenous populations (diamonds, coal, long distance importing of exotic fruits etc). And we are not.

CoteDAzur hubby was watching a travel programme on sky...they actually broke down the crop into a powder with sulpuric acid