Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Cloudbase -hooray for you, well done I'm sure all our dcs will be so much better off in the long run.

He's apparently opting for doing a runner,so (having refused to take any of his stuff previously & getting angry with me when I put his clothes in a bag) he's planning on turning up here in a bit to collect his things, leaving me to deal with the financial mess alone. No doubt he will want to pressure me in person.

mrsmerryhenry not sure if this will work as never tried before, but hope this could link to resources thread.Otherwise it's on the relationships threads, just scroll down a bit - the title is quite clear

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/744638

well H has found himself somewhere else to stay with a friend of a friend and he has the key!!!!

so i said i would like to see the house please and he said why,so i said you wont give me the address and i want to know where my children will be staying.

so we are going this morning to have a look.

since then ive had more tears,do i realise how hard it is for him to leave his kids,then acting strangely like its not happening,ie making plans to do stuff as a happy family,
i said we are no longer a happy family.

he said he was taking DS out for some new trainers next week and i said you will need all your money for your new house and to tide you over till you get a job

oh yeh i forgot he said

then he made arrangements with his brother this morning so i said no we are going to look at the house

oh yeh i forgot he said

so we had a row last night,i said you need to realise this IS happening,there were more tears,but i wasnt falling for it,i had to be quite cold,
i said we spoke about all this at relate so i dont understand why you are throwing things at me now.

so this morning after we,ve been to see the house im packing his clothes etc for him,he says he will take them to the new house tonight,so we shall see.

ive got to remain calm and collected because i know he wants a reaction,and ive fallen for the tears and the promises sooo many times before.

keeping a diary is helping me,when i see it all written down in black and white it makes me stronger.

please send me strong vibes,i CAN do this!!!!!

Onelife I really hope you can see how strong you are. You are standing up to him so well - we all know you can keep going and get through this even if you can't see it yet. I always read your posts for inspiration on how to handle my EA.

Following Cloudbase's comment - I looked at the link that MO posted on the other thread too. You know how Ive always thought that STBXH was less EA than most of the EAs on here - he scored 60 of those points. But then I tried to score myself on it (trying to think about what other people think of me rather than being proud of who I am) and I scored 10. Does that mean I have to take 10 of his total? Or does it mean actually we're better suited to each other than I thought

croos-posted with soontobefree (how did I take that long to write two paragraphs??)

My H is in denial too. Keeps making comments about things we were planning to do with the garden over the summer. I just keep replying that I might still do some of that. It makes me feel really cruel, but I am not backing down now. Do they really think that if they ignore it for long enough that we will just forget that they were meant to be leaving? And everything will just go back to how it was?

I think we all have a pretty good understanding of what the abuse is but i still dont understand why they do it?

Cant understand why my dp does it - he knows it is destructive, he is not happy either, i wont go near him, we sleep in separate rooms.

I have to leave as its his house.

Good luck to all of you who have been able to make your stand and get on with your lives.

Dreading what effect it will have on dd - she is getting very chatty and asks where daddy is - what will i say to her? Any ideas?

My father is emotionally abusive to all the nearest and dearest he can get anywhere near. He is a 2 yr old trapped in a 69 yr old's body. His basic requirement in life is always to get his own way, whatever the cost to anybody else.

People like have failed to grow up beyond toddlerhood, and never will. They appeal to strong capable women in the main, who think they may be able to "grow" them up or help them change. They do not change or ever grow up.

messymissy- my sister ended up with an abuser. She told her children after the split that Daddy was not well, and that's why he behaved so badly sometimes (even they could see it at 3 and 4 years old) and they wouldn't be able to see him until he was better. They seemed to accept that, and he has had access in recent times, but generally fails to come and make use of his access weekends as he feels that my sister got "her own way" in the family court. The arsehole.

Hi duchesse - that's very interesting, thanks. struck a cord with me as my mum keeps saying my dp is like a 9 year old, and his mum still refers to him as boy, buys him chocolate at christmas (one of the multi bar kids packs) and easter eggs, they do treat him like he is a pre-teen.

Just don't know why i did not spot it when we got together, he did seem capable, but i think i did not see how much he relied on his parents for his decision making and help around the house, i was hugely busy at work i guess, and just did not spot it. What irks me considerabley is that his brother's now ex-girl friend did - she said a few things at the time but i did not understand what she was getting at, wish i had had time to talk to her before she left.

Soontobefree - that is fantastic news, well done, it really does take everything youve got doesnt it.

I have had a rather unpleasant encounter with benny hill recently, consisting of the usual rewriting of history, things didnt happen that did , and his usual screaming and ridiculous accusations.
Despite having a new victim he still seems to want regular contact with me and is stalling the divorce in any way he can. Discussed this with a freind who commented that hes probably still getting something out of our " relationship ". No, i said, i do not sleep with him or offer him anything that i am aware of.
Freind insisted that he would not try to hold on to this unless it was meeting one or more of his needs.

Lightbulb moment.He has a need to abuse and belittle and rage,and i provide an oulet for all his crap feelings and rage. who else would he be able to do that to! He will not let go of a target easily as he knows how difficult it will be to replace me.

So, i meet his need to abuse and bully. That has been my value, and a good enough reason to marry me.A full time whipping boy in his eyes,, what more could a bully want.

Looking through the various lists of warning signs i think its quite easy to spot once you know what your looking for.Most of the red flags suggest a lack of maturity which is the root of this childish nasty behaviour.
What adult man spends hours on his pc / playstation playing like a small boy, or collecting star wars crap? I also find sense of humour a dead give away too, they chortle at stupid jokes that small boys find amusing, theyre not right sexually and they have disgusting personal habits and brag about things that most of us would keep quiet about.
They find it amusing to relay how much they can drink, how loud they can fart or how they nearly had a crash .
Ive got quite good at spotting them now and can usually do so within 5 minuites, it isnt hard to spot the 12 year old boy whos lurking behind the mask if you ask the right questions.

Last night he came over to get his stuff so he could run away. then ended up staying. then this morning harangued me for money so didn't have to run away. called me names, ripped up the Lundy book, because that must be why I am behaving in this way, shouted, grabbed my arms and bellowed in my face, told me he wished he could kick my head in (but he's not that kind of man)
couldn't believe i could lose house etc and make him run away over £1k. now he knows what sort of woman i am.

I was trying to feed dd2 breakfast, and he wanted to continue demanding money - I said I wasn't going to change my mind - he told me I must go somewhere else in house so don't argue in front of kids. But I wasn't arguing, simply saying, no more debt. What - do I have to go and stand somewhere as long as he wants to while he just bullies and bullies me??????

in end agreed to take loan for £200 as he has paid £340 into my acc but not cleared yet. Couldn't get the loan, so then wanted me to try and open 4th current account so cd get another overdraft. said no.

he's trying to get money from his mum. told me these people could come to the house, could threaten us.

i should realise he has changed as he looked after kids for a bit on 2 mornings, so as i am in so much debt, what is £1k more if chance it could save all.... er,the fact that believing that logic is how i am in this position. It's not like he ever said, can you give me £35k please. No, it's just been steady demands for various amounts which build and build.

He even asked me if I want to run away with him!!!!!!!

soontobefree*- I don't feel strong, but I do feel very detached now. Or a bit dead inside maybe. If it wasn't for the debt,I think I'd manage to deal with him at last, but I just feel quite despairing about the situation I've allowed myself to be put in, till I am like his financial slave.

Hopeful - i just have 1 role in his life - he seems to think i am his personal bank.

ditzzy - sorry your book has become a casualty, had left it out which was stupid of me

do i believe these people could turn up here? should i try to go to a refuge? benefit people still haven't decided my claim. I was crying on phone to them this morning because I have no money, no way to pay my bills let alone my debts.

Onlygotonelife,im so sorry to hear hes doing this to you.Is there anyone who could come and stay with you , as presumably he will not threaten or demand in front of other people.
Are you in touch with womans aid, or your local domestic violence team? Would you consider involving the police?
Id happily beat him senseless on your behalf.

onelife don't worry about the book from my perspective. On one hand I'm sorry that it got you into more truoble, but on the other glad its brought his attitude into the open.

Have you spoken to WA or anyone else about going into a refuge? It really might be the best thing for the immediate future - they would help you access financial support and advice as well as keeping you safe. I know hiding sounds like a cowardly thing to do, but I think you just need a break from having to deal with him all the time. Can you imagine how it would feel to you if you were somewhere safe and he didn't even know where?

P.S. onelife - you do realise you are still standing up to him despite his behaviour getting even worse? When your dd's are grown up, they are going to be so proud of what you're managing to do right now.

re the pretending its not happenening

today i bought a new hoover,so he HAD to unpack it and put it together and then stand over me while i hoovered upstairs,i asked him did he want to hoover the stairs for me and he shot me a dirty look so i said dont then,-then he said ok ill do it.

he said hes buying a BBQ so he can have me and the kids over and i said well we are splitting up so no i wont be coming for a bbq, he didnt like that.

then he saw me looking at mobile phones and asked why i wanted an internet phone so i said what has it got to do with you,he said im just wondering why you want one thats all,so i said well lots of people have them (and i suspect he,ll do something to the internet before he leaves to make it not work in the hope ill ring him to sort it out) and its my business.

still acting like im with him and still trying to control what i do or buy.

onlygotonelife- please think about phoning WA and going to a refuge for yours and your DC,s safety and try not to let him back in your house again,he has started to turn physically nasty now and im worried for you.

The WA outreach worker asked if I would like to go to a refuge, and said she could have a look in places where my family are, so I would have some support locally.

In some ways it's appealing, a new start,or even just a break.

But complicated because benefit not yet approved - if they say no, then I'd have to pay rent at the refuge, which isn't really feasible. Also, it would be hard to move away from the groups we go to, and the couple of friends nearby.

I should get some things together in case I need to go. Also if his dodgy gun toting friends turn up here I would want somewhere to escape to. Though the solicitor at the family justice centre who talked me through an injunction seemed to think if I made it clear to these people that it wasn't anything to do with me,they'd just go away. Not sure I share her opinion.

Also i read on Stercus' thread that she'd been in a refuge as a child and as an adult, and found the experience pretty horrible, saying the kids bullied each other - i'd hate to think that would happen to dd1

soontobefree - ex has always acted like that too, always making long term plans for us all - buying bigger house 1 day, going on holiday together.
Do they have an alternate reality playing in their heads, or do they just think that by asserting that you share a future, it will come true? Or just making it so exhausting to resist, you give in??? Well done you though, you sound like you're handling things brilliantly

I grew up in a "stable" family home with a father who was openly EA to my mother. I found that pretty horrible too. Rock and a hard place - but the hard place has a light at the end of the tunnel (do I win the competition for the number of metaphors in one sentence?). Its not going to get better if you just stay where you are.

I know that first paragraph sounds really mean, and I've never been in a refuge so I can't say its all going to be wonderful, but each refuge must be different to the others, and the atmosphere will be dependent on who happens to be there at the time, so don't let one person's bad experience put you off.

Thats really good that they consider where your family support is too. Hopefully the benefits will all be confirmed soon. In the meantime I think the standard WA advice is to make sure you have essential documents either in your handbag at all times, or in a bag that you can just grab and run with. Passports, driving licence, dds birth certificates, any other ID or docs that seem important.

Onelife you are amazing for standing up to him. I am glad you couldnt get that loan but sorry that he physically assaulted you - because he did. Dont let that slide. It worries me that he did that and I think that sadly he IS that kind of man so please, please make sure you have people around to support you.
Does your health visitor know? Mine has been absolutely brilliant.

Soontobefree - I really hope he goes this time! As well as all his emotional blackmail he is also hoping YOU will crack and tell him not to go, but hes gone too far hasnt he?

CMM is having a "handfast" ceremony with his girlfriend next month. Apparently she thinks she doesnt have long to live . He keeps telling me that it isnt a legally binding ceremony. I told him I was fed up of his mixed messages and did he need me to spell it out that we would never get back together or sleep together again because he had totally broken my trust.

He said "OK I get it" (petulant note) "You dont want to get back together with me or sleep with me"

I said "Of course not you are are with someone else now!" I really dont know what he gets out of still seeing me, apart from knowing that I havent had enough time to get over him yet and rubbing my nose in it. And yes it is painful, but also a wee bit desperate that he wants to behave this way...

According to him he showed her a photo of me aged 20 and she said "OMG she looks like me" Not the first time he has showed her pictures of me. Not normal behaviour surely??? Anyway he is doing the classic abuser behaviour, pushing for a committment so he can start the abuse proper.

I'd really like to tell her that those rings will bring her no happiness at all, since he used to chuck the one I bought him at me on a regular basis, and demand mine back.

Oh but if we were going out he'd make sure we had them on, appearances being everything to your average Twat...

"Last night he came over to get his stuff so he could run away. then ended up staying."

Gotta say, reading your post from last night, I thought that might happen. I'd suggest you start being realistic about how he engineers situations to his advantage. Addicts are wily manipulators, wise up to it and start anticipating his moves. He's coming for his stuff, so he'll just happen stay the night, and then he'll be in the perfect placement harrass you into giving your money.

Here's a way you could've stopped him from engineering this situation. Instead of letting him in your house to collect his things you could've left them in binbags on the doorstep. He's obviously very concerned about what other people think about him when he has tantrums and bullying fits, so always make your interactions in public, and like any other vampire- don't invite him in! Your threshold is sacred, guarded by Gandalf and he will not pass!

"then this morning harangued me for money so didn't have to run away. called me names, ripped up the Lundy book, because that must be why I am behaving in this way, shouted, grabbed my arms and bellowed in my face, told me he wished he could kick my head in (but he's not that kind of man)
couldn't believe i could lose house etc and make him run away over £1k. now he knows what sort of woman i am."

Asshole Translation- I am impotent because you no longer bend to my bullying, my last resort is nasty namecalling and destruction of property.

"I was trying to feed dd2 breakfast, and he wanted to continue demanding money - I said I wasn't going to change my mind - he told me I must go somewhere else in house so don't argue in front of kids."

If he really cared about his kids, he'd get the balls to go to a goddamned NA meeting and start working on his addiction. He'd stop bullying their mother in front of them. He'd stop putting you in a financially untenable situation, start rebuilding. He'd stop using you as a bottomless bank.

"But I wasn't arguing, simply saying, no more debt."

Good for you, that must've taken a lot of courage.

"Couldn't get the loan, so then wanted me to try and open 4th current account so cd get another overdraft. said no."

applauds

"he's trying to get money from his mum."

Addicts are nothing if not predictable. I bet he's bulling her with the same bullshit stories.

"told me these people could come to the house, could threaten us."

Call the cops. Call the DV unit. I think it's well past time. Tell them that your partner has incurred drug debts and you're worried you might get flack for it. Next time he tries to indirectly threaten you with reprisals from his dealers for non-payment of drug debt, and that's exactly what the cowardly piece of shit is doing, you tell him that he needs to go to the police, not drain every penny from your bank account.

"the fact that believing that logic is how i am in this position. It's not like he ever said, can you give me £35k please. No, it's just been steady demands for various amounts which build and build."

Well done for standing up for yourself, and simply stating the truth.

I wouldn't worry about SA's opinion of refuges. Firstly, it was when she was a child, things have improved significantly since then. Secondly, I think SA perhaps exagerrated how bad it was in hindsight. I think this because SA wasm rationalising herself out of an escape route because she wasn't emotionally ready to leave her abusive relationship. There are a million and one reasons not to leave until you're ready. When you're ready they'll all melt away and you'll realise that the most important thing for your and your children's health and survival is to eradicate the poisionous influence of abuse in your life.

"Do they have an alternate reality playing in their heads, or do they just think that by asserting that you share a future, it will come true? Or just making it so exhausting to resist, you give in?"

Well, as far as your partner is concerned, Onelife, I'm pretty sure he's living in delusional addict lalaland. He's also trying to win a war of attrition, wearing down your defences until he gets a chance to take your money. Is there anything between you anymore other than him coming over and bullying you for money? That's pretty much all of your relationship now isn't it?

madameovary no im NOT going to crack at all,i suspect his emotional behaviour/abuse/blackmail will step up a gear over the next few days and im prepared for it.

tonight he has told DS hes going to watch his favourite tv programme and play cards with him,so we are back to "lets be nice to DS and maybe she might change her mind"

its not working and it wont work again.

im really not sure what he can throw at me next,ive had loads of tears,then anger,then nice behaviour but its not WORKING.

i feel emotionally and mentally exhausted and cant wait for him to go,this time next week he should be in his new house.

im sorry that your X is being this way with you madame,he is really really trying to get you jealous isnt he,probably in the hope that you,ll take him back, X did that last year,he brought a slapper round to the house with him when he dropped the kids off and i went ballistic at him,and i took him back like a fool,but nothing changed and it never will, i really admire your courage,you are a very strong lady.

Soontobefree, i would expect further manipulation, and then extreme rage when he realises he has lost control.Mine has threatened and manipulated me financially, through the dcs / car/ house,threatened suicide / threatened to put posters up about me at my dcs school and in our area,sell the house, fight for the kids,kept an online account of how insane i am on facebook,on and on it goes.

Is tedious and horrible , and he usually carrys out his threats which actually hurt him more than me, but once hes carried out his threat, its gone, and he cant use it anymore.
And as awful as it is,, in a way, good, because they manage to do it just at the right time.I have often found myself weakening as hes being nice, then wham, he does something shit,,,,and i think, great, thanks for reminding me why i kicked your fat arse out!

Also, i dont miss him ,he was a freak and a weirdo who stank with verruca ridden feet.
When i have cried over the whole sorry thing, i realise i am not crying over him, but for the marriage i never had.

Anyway, well done that your getting shot, change things round, buy new bedding, make it yours.

Soontobefree that's the spirit. You've clearly reached the point where you just think "enough" and while the arsehole behaviour still affects you, it doesn't push the right buttons anymore.
You may be right about my ex but last time I thought we were getting back together he was so staggeringly cruel that he blew it for good. I will never forget how awful and psychologically tortuous it felt. He went too far and knowing he was capable of treating the mother of his child like that.. well it's ended all hope of a reconciliation. He actually made it easy for me. Well, easiER.
As hopefull09 put it very well, I am not mourning him but the relationship I will never have. I used to see him as damaged but essentially benign. Now as my instincts sharpen and my self esteem grows, I see the cruel streak clearly and how completely warped he is. The total opposite of the kind, caring, capable man he pretended to be when we met. I still have some of his earliest emails, which he used to help build his fake persona.

One of them talks about how after his brother died he sort of opened up emotionally and was "crying for every lost girlfriend and cold thing I had ever done " I fell for it too. I think now it would ring alarm bells that he admitted to "cold" behaviour.

He makes capital out of every bad thing that's ever happened to him and uses it to excuse his behaviour. That's just sad isn't it?
Dizie another great post from you.

Cloudbase well done! I am looking forward to your update.
Onelife I do think imvho that the refuge would be best for you. Easy for me to say I know, but it is the first step on the road to true freedom, which is actually quite scary after the kind of imprisonment we have endured but when you embrace it you will NEVER look back.

ALL of you are so staggeringly brave. Just to admit there is abuse takes immense courage. I refused to live with my EA once I got my own place (as a direct result of being in a refuge) so I can Imagine how difficult it is to leave the family home.

In the end though, it is your physical and emotional well being that is way more important than bricks and mortar.
Good luck everyone, I am cheering you on.