Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Sorry. I'm letting it all out now.

alwaysindoubt does this remind you of him?

Of course its not you. He has conditioned you to make you think that, but its bollocks. You arent the impossible one, he is.

Madameoverary - not really. But I looked at something about sociopaths and I thought that sounded a bit like him.

Yesterday, I had to sit in teh bedroom, feeling trapped (yes, I know I sound melodramatic) listening to this godalmighty bollocks about how he thinks there are two types of women - the cold, clever passionless kind and the hot, impetuous, sexy kind. And he's spouting on and on and I'm thinking, "You idiot. you absolute idiot." But how did I end up with this idiot?

Alwaysindoubt by ex was unfaithful to me on numerous occasions, with anyone he could find really, girls in pubs, prostitutes etc. Yet he still to this day tries to blame it on me by telling me that he was getting no passion or attention in our relationship.

"It's the constant always feeling in the wrong that's beginning to get me down. You start to think, how come he's the only person in my life who finds me this difficult? And you are always apologising and wondering if you've done something wrong. Like a child. I catch myself saying, "what have I done wrong?" I am anyway.

I always feel at fault. And I'm usually told that I'm stubborn and insist that I'm in the right. So I start to think that I'm impossible. I think I've lsot touch with reality. Am I really this awful person?"

I have thought this and actually said this to my ex. I told him that no-one else has ever had these problems with me and I have been in four long term relationships before him. I finished with all four of them as well, no-one found me so impossible that they had to dump me. So what does that say? It's not me and I'll bet my bottom dollar it's not you either and guess what? In eight years of marriage I never looked at another man so really who is in the wrong here?

It is is their massive sense of entitlement that tells your dp/h (and my ex) that no matter what they do you should and will keep on loving them and attending to their needs sexually and every other way. I have realised that the only way out of this is to stop caring about them, easier said than done I know. I have never felt so free as since I found out the full extent of my ex's behaviour, it allowed me to disengage emotionally and now I couldn't care less what he says to or about me. It means nothing and do you know all of a sudden he has stopped saying such shitty, abusive things to me and is being all sweetness and light because he knows I don't care anymore.

If only there was a pill we could take to stop loving these men.

funny you should say that springfleurs, I was just saying today that if we could get a huge injection of self esteem, esp after these men had eroded it so badly, then it would enable us to leave and recover quicker.

Thank you for that Springfleurs. Your story in terms of the infidelity is similar to mine. Plus a longish term affair with a colleague who he made pregant and who he still works with. Still sends flirty texts to no less.

Someoen said to me the other day that she reckoned that I must still love him becuase otehrwise, why on earth would I put up with it. But I don't love him. At leaset I don't think I do. When he talks, I look at him and wonder how he can spout such rubbish. He told me the other day that because his mother was cold to him that makes him very vulnerable to temptatuion when women make passes at him. I don't know how to unpick such self serving, self important, irresponsible stuff so I don't bother any more.

But I can't seem to leave. I ask fora divorce adn then I panic. It's teh children that hold me back. And he has sapped my confidence thoguh taht is returning.

well the weekend is over thank goodness and hes festering more and more like the blob he is.

last night he went out with his mate,when he returned absolutely rat arsed and was talking crap,he said he had looked around at all the slappers out last night and hed realised that the reason we are splitting is because we didnt go out together enough.

so i said no we are splitting because you couldnt keep it in your pants long enough.

then came the tears and i went to bed, (not my tears i hasten to add)

today i did something remarkable,-well it is for me

i took DD to a birthday party,i have never done that before and shes 5.

i lost all my confidence and couldnt leave the house for years,and i used to be a supervisor in a major company handling millions of pounds accounts until i met him.

it felt so good being confident to do that for DD,of course now im getting the sulks and hes not very happy,hes been winding DD up before bedtime when he knows thats out of order and hes basicallyh sat around and waited for me to ask and ask him to do something.

he said he cant bear the thought of DD crying for him when hes gone,and i said dont you worry about DD ill sort her out she will be fine.

i cant wait until these 2 weeks are over,they are going to be the longest 2 weeks of my life!!!!

Alwaysindoubt we have all felt that panic. It is crippling I know, but it doesn't last. It is just our minds trying to adapt to the shock of a new reality, and the fear that we are so intertwined with them, we will never be able to let go. But we can and we do.
It is very very difficult at first. They plant roots in us that can't be removed, but once away from them, the roots can't survive and start to die.

Soontobefree you go girl! That is a fantastic achievement. Keep it in mind and be proud of yourself, you are doing so well.

alwaysindoubt, I identify a lot with that feeling of always being in the wrong. Logically I know I have plenty of friends, I've lived all over the place, had lots of jobs where I've done well and been promoted and always been fairly popular as I'm a cheerful kind of person. I've got lots of interests and can strike up conversation with almost anyone. Yet H seems to take all the positive features of my personality and twist them into negatives. And I'm starting to believe I'm this dull, worthless person who isn't interesting enough for him to bestow his time and affection upon which is why I know I need to get shot of him.

I've lost weight but I'm still "fat" (I'm a size 10-12, he's over 15 stone), I've got a good degree (same as his) but I'm still "thick" I look after the dc's by myself while he's often away with work, work part time and run the house yet I'm "lazy." It's exhausting.

The more awareness I get from reading, on here and the Lundy book, the more I realise that he is a horrible bully. I would never bully anyone, no matter how easy a victim they appeared, because it's simply not in my nature to do it. It must be in his nature though, and I'm his current victim. It's so twisted, and hard to understand, especially from the person who's supposed to love you and have your best interests at heart.

As I begin to detach I can see more and more what a foul person he is, a stranger to himself, a black hole that he looks to his willing victims to help him fill.
I have told him he will have to make his own arrangements to see DD, as I can't see him anymore. He is still playing me and I've had enough.
Hearing him talk about OW is very telling. He really let's his true nature slip. He does not sound tender or loving, but is only thinking of himself. Deeply unattractive.
I think he was always like this, but I only saw what I wanted to.
I have changed though, the more self-esteem I get the more distanced I am, the little voices saying "why the hell did I put up with that???

mrsmerryhenry
it's difficult to prove perhaps, because it's so insidious,and oftenthe victims don't even realise what's going on for some time.

For advice Women's Aid is great,and she doesn't need to prove anything to get help from them - they would be able give her advice, or point her in the right direction.

I spoke to a solicitor through WA and discussed an injunction - she advised to keep a diary of any incidents, and make a record of anything that occurred

I don't know if that helps at all,but really urge her to call WA as a starting point - if she can't get through on the 24hour helpline there are local numbers on the website

Sounds like she's very lucky to have you

Brilliant, thanks onlygot. I am already planning to call WA tomorrow. Very glad to hear they provide solicitors, as that's the other thing I need to find out about.

'Insiduous' is exactly the word I've been using - it creeps up on one, doesn't it, and is so incredibly damaging. I was reading earlier on the WA website that it can be even more damaging than physical abuse - I suppose because it's mind control. Horrible. At the moment I am feeling so very thankful for my life as it is - not perfect in any sense of the word, but my God things could be a hell of a lot worse.

Btw you might find that my first post disappears - I realised that I may have inadvertently written things that could be interpreted by an interested party, if you catch my drift. If it vanishes I'll repost a slightly amended version.

Thanks so much for your encouragement, too. Are you out of your DV situation, or trying to get out? I very much hope the former.

alwaysindoubt: "Yesterday, I had to sit in teh bedroom, feeling trapped". Trapped is exactly how this sort of a man will make you feel. If you talk to other women in a similar situation you'll find that there are SO many similarities between the things these men do and the way they make you feel - seriously it's almost as if they've all been to DV school to learn by rote what their pattern of behaviour should be.

If you haven't already checked it out, please read this: Survivors Handbook. It's rather long, so do it in small bites. I hope it will give you more insight and the encouragement you need to take action. If you don't take action at some point this man will destroy you and your children. You don't have to let him do this, and there are many, many agencies around (and I daresay friends - I'm providing huge support for my relative) who will help you every step of the way.

Okay my first post's been withdrawn now, so I'll re-write it:

Hi, I'm really sorry to butt in like this, but I really need to get some advice for a relative who's currently experiencing emotional abuse.

I'm so sorry if you've already discussed my questions on the thread but I'm spending so much of my time supporting her that I can't read through the whole thread.

Firstly as you all must know it's incredibly difficult to prove emotional abuse to other people. Have any of you managed to do this - in particular, proving it to any authorities - and if so, how did you achieve this?

Secondly to those of you who have engaged the authorities in your case: have you or your partner ever encountered any sort of psychologist-type person as part of the case? How did this happen?

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions as the days go on but that's it for now.

Thank you so much, and my very, very best to all of you.

Mrsmerryhenry
our WA outreach worker is based in a centre with various other services available, including a counsellor as well as solicitors, and I've been referred to the counsellor,so again, that's something your relative might be able to access. I think there's an organisation called something like Rights for Women, who can provide freelegal advice too. I think their number might be on the WA website.

I'm working my way out of my situation, seeing him for the most self centred, selfish person who seems to truly believe he is entitled to anything he wants withlittle regard for the rights of those around him.

I've fond this thread quite empowering, but it's taken a long time and even now i still have wavering moments.

Have you seen the thread on resources for emotional abuse?

Hi

Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Alwaysindoubt, I know how you feel about thinking you are always at fault I still feel like that I am not living with him anymore, I was before I met very assertive, friends and relatives now think I am like a frightened rabbit in the headlights. At the weekens he came to see DD telling me I need to shave my armpits!! then telling me he thought it was sexy - weirdo! With what has happened with his new girlfriend has caused an argument with his family and mine and now I think they will not want to see their granddaughter who they are very close to. This weekend she has been upset not likng the new house crying a lot and trying to run rings around me now I don't know how to handle this, but he always said I was a crap parent in the end I think I actually thought I was although I know this is not true. I have always been there for her and I now this is very tough for her too as she idolises him I wish I could tell her why but she is far too young. I think he is trying blame for this mess as if I hadn't to called it a day it may never have happened. Again controlling behaviour.

Hinchy - it's going to be a difficult time,oving, splitting up etc. I'm certain you're not a crap mum, but when you'retold soethig enough, it's going tobe hard to shake off the wondering if it's true, especially when things are tough. It will get easier - in the mean tie,maybe get outside when possible - always find that if behaviour is getting to me, best way to deal is head out for fresh air and exercise.

Dd1 has been very clingy lately - she's always been like that to a degree, but sees more pronounced at the mo.The arguments can't help. Also she must be confused about what's going on. She's aware he's not around much,but he tells her he's at work, doesn't want to say anything about living elsewhere (because he doesn't really accept it himself??)

He came round to borrow money off me this evening - is OK as he has paid a cheque intomy account. He wanted me to get a loan fromloan shop just for a month, so he can clear his new fresh debt (he went and took more last night cos I wouldn't let him stay here, so is all my fault of course). I said no.

Off he ranted again - is very frustrated with me because i willnot obey now. Keeps going on about pulling together, doing what is best for us - ie I should let hi stay here as that would have prevented him taking drugs, therefore we would both have more money.

I said he prob would have taken ore another time, then deanded money back anyway - and how come I must do what is best for him, but he doesn't feel any compulsion to do what is best for me (pay bills, help with parental responsibility, get up in the morning rather than lie in bed all dayleaving me to do everything etc etc). How can he expect me to let him stay here to stop him taking drugs when his behaviour is so unacceptable????

He thinks our relationship is v destructive and I am mental. whereas perhaps i'm deluding myself but finally think i'm regaining my sense of self, and taking back control of my life (just shame left it til that life is such a mess)

On downside, I feel totally exhausted at the moment, and pretty low, quite tearful

onlygot - thanks, I'll look into all that. Would you be able to post a link to the thread on EA resources?

well a bit of a set back,XH wont be moving out in 2 weeks,he came home yesterday and said (with a massive grin on his face) that where he was moving to,the house is being repossesed by the council.

so i said oh what a surprise,and accused him of knowing that all along as he hasnt been bothered about getting his stuff ready.

he was in a very very good mood last night,and i was fuming.

he threw me a crumb last night and mopped up,ive been dropping hints about that for a week as well and theres no way i can do it with the way my back is, when hes gone im going to get a cleaner to mop and do the stairs once a week and my mum will mop for me when she calls round as well.

so i was looking at houses to rent for him and found him a flat,so i showed it to him, he went hmmm.

hes really trying the emotional blackmail,such as

DD will break her heart crying for me
you wont be able to go to your slimming club cos im not having the kids on the night it is
What will DS do about his social club

so ive answered him back each time very calmly and told him not to worry.

onlygotonelife- im so sorry hes messing you around like this,do you have to have him in the house,im not sure whether it is his or not so if it is you,ll have to ignore me!!!

Hinchy-you are right what a weirdo,saying that about shaving and then telling you he finds you attractive,where do they get these ideas from??????????

not sure how long i can stay on here as i suspect im being stalked watched by XH,hope im wrong but dont think i am,which is such a shame because this thread is a life support for me at the mo.

and if i am right,XH and you are reading this then you will know what i really think of you,and how your abusive character has gone on long enough!!!!

"Dd1 has been very clingy lately - she's always been like that to a degree, but sees more pronounced at the mo.The arguments can't help. Also she must be confused about what's going on. She's aware he's not around much,but he tells her he's at work, doesn't want to say anything about living elsewhere (because he doesn't really accept it himself??)"

Kids know when things aren't right, they're like little barometers. Considering your partner keeps exhibiting his total lack of care for his kids by bullying you into giving him drug money right in front of them, I can't imagine your kids feeling anything other than worried and freaked out by the situation. My parents split when I was 3, I remember many a fight. I remember the tension, the upset.

"He came round to borrow money off me this evening - is OK as he has paid a cheque intomy account."

No it's not. He's been ripping you off, if he's paying you money you should keep it and say it's going towards paying off the debts he's bullied you into getting to pay off his drug habit. It's going towards raising his kids, as he is so addicted to drugs he is abandoning his responsibilities as a father.

"He wanted me to get a loan fromloan shop just for a month,"

Just for a month, yeah, right .

"so he can clear his new fresh debt (he went and took more last night cos I wouldn't let him stay here, so is all my fault of course). I said no.

Good, well done.

"Off he ranted again - is very frustrated with me because i willnot obey now. Keeps going on about pulling together, doing what is best for us - ie I should let hi stay here as that would have prevented him taking drugs, therefore we would both have more money."

Did having him live with you stop him taking drugs before? HE is the only one responsible for stopping taking drugs. Addicts love to play the "You're responsible for me being addicted" card, because personal responsibility is totally alien to them. But you are not able to make him stop, only he is. He'll probably also tell you that you can cure him, or that the right circumstances can cure him. It's all an illusion. He and he alone is responsible for his recovery.

"I said he prob would have taken ore another time, then deanded money back anyway - and how come I must do what is best for him, but he doesn't feel any compulsion to do what is best for me (pay bills, help with parental responsibility, get up in the morning rather than lie in bed all dayleaving me to do everything etc etc). How can he expect me to let him stay here to stop him taking drugs when his behaviour is so unacceptable????"

Good for you!

"He thinks our relationship is v destructive"

Well at least we can all agree on that one.

"and I am mental."

Ha! Drug addict, calling you mental. Ha!

"whereas perhaps i'm deluding myself but finally think i'm regaining my sense of self, and taking back control of my life (just shame left it til that life is such a mess)"

It's good you're standing up to him on some things. Keep up the good work. With practice one day you'll feel strong enough to stop him coming to your house.

"On downside, I feel totally exhausted at the moment, and pretty low, quite tearful sad"

It's really hard standing up to bullies, and it is emotionally exhausting. Look after yourself tonight, take a long bath with a good book or watch a good movie, order in dinner for the kids so you don't have to cook, that sort of thing. Reward yourself for being brave and standing up to him.

Latest is that when he went to drop off some cash to these people, they apparently held him at gunpoint, wanted him to take more, now tell him he owes £1k instead of £200 as can't pay up quickly.

Not sure is the truth as baffled as to why they would try and force him to take more when he goes so often to take it anyway

He is on about this temporary loan again, or he will run away.

I said sorry his life has got like this, but I can't manage my situation as is, cannot get more debt just in case this really is the miraculous moment of recovery he swears it is. If I could see into the future and know he'd never use again, fine. But so many times have been the last ever time. It's not that I doubt he believes what he says, just think he's not in control of addiction.

Am so stressed.Benefit people taking ages to make decision,meanwhile things spiralling out of control and I have no money left. Wish I could run away too, but I have kids to look after. He plans to come to talk tome later.

I know what it'll be like, him trying to get me to do hisbidding as the only solution.It is so wearing.

see,so stressed forgot to change name. Don't want people imight meet up with to know the sordid depressing nature of my life

He keeps ringing, making all these plans for a 2nd job, helping more with dc, staying clean.... but all dependent on me borrowing another £1k.

I have said no, because if he does take drugs again, he won't be able to pay me back, and I can't pay my bills as it is.

So he says he will run away. But can't bear not to see kids.

Now he says he will kill himself.

Have just ended up shrieking back at him - cannot stand this emotional blackmail.

Onelife good for you for saying no. What a lying manipulative fckwit he is. And now you know it.
Suicide threats. How original

Hi everyone, sorry to have dropped off the scene, but I found out that EA had been logging into computer after me and checking all the websites I have been using ("the anti-men brigade") as he charmingly said. Anyway,he has moved out on Friday, with suprisingly little fuss but has sent lots of manipulative texts about missing the kids etc (althgouh not so much that he couldn't be bothered to come over and see them when he arranged to)and has now switched into charm mode - he wants to take me out for our anniversary next week (Is he kidding???????!!!!!!!!). I actually think he is demented. DD is very clingy and upset at night time at the mo and v unsettled as Daddy has gone, but the flat is so much more peaceful without him and I feel so much more relaxed not walking on eggshells all the time. He is gunning really hard to come back, but I really don't want him back. He has completely destroyed any feelings I had for him. I don't want to be overly paranoid, but he is being too nice about all of this; I'm waiting for the explosion/fall out...MO, I checked out the list that you linked to recently and was horrified to note that he ticks about 20 on the list - scary considering I was supposed to run if he ticked one!. Onelife, well done for not buying into his emotional garbage - these men are far too selfish to hurt themselves, so good for you for staying strong.

Hinchy, I sympathise. My DD is 2.5 and doesn't understand where Daddy has gone either, but please feel better knowing that you are keeping her safe and protecting her. Part of the reason that they act up is that having see one parent leave, they then become scared that you will leave - lots of love and reassurance will see her through this phase, and she will eventually realise that you are not going anywhere and that you are her rock and she will settle down. Also, don't underestimate how much of his c**p she will have picked up on and despite the upset, she will be feeling the same relief that you do at the tension and atmosphere, that these men trail about them, leaving the home. She will be fine as long as she has you to continue to love her as well as you obviously do.

In case I can't get back on for a few days (things a bit tough in the transition to single parenthood) love and strength to you all - we are all moving forward slowly and together - hurrah for all of us, and thanks to all you lovely ladies on this fantastic thread.