Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Ditzzy what an arse, yes that is typical.
It gets to a point where everything they do just pushes you further and further away and they are too dim to see it.

Keep going everyone, we are getting a nice sense of outrage going now!

Hopeful I know what you mean about saying things out loud to people and the fact that they are flabbergasted. I have started talking to friends too and I can see the disbelief in their eyes - not that they disbelieve me but that they can't beleve that he has said such things and that I am still wanting to doubt myself about whether I am to blame.
You are right about the parents too. I've never suffered at the hands of my MIL as I never see her but my SIL did for years.
Why on earth did I not spot all these warning signs before...

Hopeful - at your fart free pondering!

It is amazing how these men think that doing the every day things most people would expect from a partner is somehow a reason for major congratulation. Apparently I only focus on what he doesn't do (never helping out at night, never letting me have a sleep in), not enough on the fun things he does with dd1 when he chooses to do them

Definitely agree about how our perceptions are so altered at what's OK and normal - long live the outrage we are now beginning to feel

Think his parents have traits too - he says they EAd him,in that were very negative / jealous of his achievements, putting him down etc.
I bet his step dad is quite controlling - I saw a card ex's mum wrote to her husband,valentines or birthday & it was saying how grateful she was so have him, thanks for putting up with her, she didn't deserve it - well, that seems over the top to me (from someone who apologised to ex for not showing my love for him enough - see the similarities?)
Also he sent back a Christmas card to me, as it wasn't special enough for them

Anyway horrible ex bullied more money from me - said if didn't give, then would change account details for the pay that he's having put into my account, so wouldn't be able to pay mortgage, and company would soon start litigation - told me I deserved it for saying wouldn't give him the money, my fault, serves me right etc.

In theory he's giving me back the money tomorrow, but of course if he wasn't such an idiot, we'd have both lots of money.

His new suggestion is to sleep rough 4 nights to save paying someone rent, then come here 3 nights, so I can claim benefit as single. I said this is unacceptable to me, I don't want him here at all, he tells me I must do what is financially best, stick together etc!!! He isn't staying here tonight (perhaps money is not for drug debt but for prostitute? Date?) but plans to come here tomorrow. He says he has a cold and will need to sleep tomorrow. I said better do it elsewhere then - and he was outraged at my lack of sympathy. After all, once his mum came over to help a bit when I was ill. Hey, I've had a cold all week, have been upmost of the night and looking after kids all day on own all week. Yet he deserves a lovely recuperation period.

He has come up with some ridiculous explanations of contacting prostitutes. He has missed his calling of fiction writing.

It is amazing the change in him once he gets his way - truly Jekyll & Hyde.

I felt actual revulsion when i saw him today. He met us at a kids story time thing,and afterwards told me off for looking so glum to see him - he does not want people noticing I am not happy to see him. I should put on a happy face.

His presence is like a prison sentence.I'm clinging on to my appointment with WA next week like it will solve everything.I know it won't, I just so hope it will be the beginning of something though.

Sorry for long essay

Hey one life Im sure WA will be able to give you practical advice on your money situation even if they can't solve all your problems so hang in there.
To be honest it has got to the point where he is blackmailing you now.
I love the idea of him missing his 'calling' - I too get that all the time and naturally it is always my fault for not 'supporting' him enough to be the great world leader/political champion/master craftsman/great writer - the list could go on and on. And of course any success I have is down to him supporting me hmmmm.
Personally I think next time he comes round you should present him with a cardboard box so he can sleep rough. If you're feeling really generous you could get him a dog on a string too - oh no sorry that would be cruel to the dog.

The outrage , mine became so bad i thought i was going mad. I would rant to myself for hours, and feel like tying him to a chair and screaming at him until he finally understood that its not ok and finally " got it ".

At that point i sought counselling,i was outraged at this nasty little bully, that i had lost myself, turned myself over to this little pig and accepted his warped veiws.
I felt like id been away for a very long time, drugged or asleep, not really here but living in some strange universe where i sort of didnt exist.

She said the rage was normal and healthy and necessary and that it would pass, and it has, painfull though it was.
I still sometimes find myself checking in with other people, asking is it me, am i being unreasonable ect about certain things.I finally realise it really doesnt matter what other people think or feel, it matters what i think and feel and if im upset or uncomfortable its not ok.
The constant quest for approval is lessening , progress !

Onlygot one life, the revulsion will grow, as will the rage.When i look at mine i remember having the fat little stinker lay on top of me and honestly feel disgusted.

They kind of have a mask, and as your brain starts to filter out the poisen, you can finally see them for the nasty little turds they actually are and they start to lose their hold over you.
It isnt possible physicly, but mine looks completeley differant to me now, he looks like the nasty little bully he is, instead of the nice looking guy i used to see.

Anyway, mines not very attractive to say the least and i cant beleive i ever thought he was. My excuse card had the ability to transform my stinking little short , balding, overweight man with bad teeth and poor personal hygeine into an attractive man!

Onlygotonelife, this sounds really ,really bad, and i hope you manage to get this sorted, you deserve so much better.Am rooting for you.

Hehe at not loving him enough, i was accused of this all the time , everytime i stood up to him in fact.
More pondering from my fart obsessed brain, not one of us would accept our daughters, mothers , sisters being treated this way, yet weve tolerated it for ourselves for years, making excuse after excuse.
Not one of us would make excuses if we saw our daughter being treated badly.

My new measuring device ( designed specificly to replace the excuse card )is that if i wouldnt accept my daughter being treated in a certain way, i wont accept it for myself.
I am someones daughter, just as important and valuble and precious as mine is. We all are.

Another pondering, a diary really does help, lets you see the cycle and gets rid of the illusion that hes not that bad , or, perhaps it was me ect.
You start to see that the times you think hes being nice, or going out of his way, hes not , hes just being normal, yet we are so gratefull for normal, at least i was.

The biggest thing that becomes obvious, every tantrum, every insult, every name they call us,and every manipulation only ever takes place in our homes in private with just us, and unfortunately, our children for witnesses.
They replace our ideas of normal with their own twisted version , things didnt happen , that didnt get said, when we know it did. All in secrecy, away from anyone who might intervene or challenge them.

They can control themselves, they just choose not to, courtesy of their free pass.

In some ways i feel forever altered, that i will never be the same again,How did i lose myself so easily ? I often wonder who that person was who was living my life, was that really me ?

I dont think it was, this isnt who i am, or who i was meant to be, and im back now , theres no more sceaming in my face, calling me names or any more crap.
On that note i will go to bed, free from my benny hill lookalike groping me or dare i say it, blowing off disgusting farts!

"said if didn't give, then would change account details for the pay that he's having put into my account, so wouldn't be able to pay mortgage, and company would soon start litigation - told me I deserved it for saying wouldn't give him the money, my fault, serves me right etc."

Well, the fact is, you wont get the money anyway so you might as well get by on what you have because it's sure as hell going to be more than the money he gives you, and it'll be more consistent.

If he's threatening pcutting off your money, then sic the CSA on him. I know they have a reputation for not being the most efficient money collectors, but they are impartial. He wont be able to bargain with and manipulate them.

You need to have a think and work out what the real worst case scenario is so that he can't scare any more money out of you. If you've thought it through, and planned the next step in case things go tits up financially it wont seem so scary and his threats will stop working.

First step, I'd suggest checking out the money saving expert website. It's a really useful and very popular website about all money and consumer issues.

Here's the debt problems information page. It'll tell you how you can renegotiate debts, set up payment plans and even how to get some debts forgiven. A LOT can be negotiated with debts, and goodness knows you could do with some of the burden being taken off of you.

Also check out the mortgage arrears information page. As well as lots of general good advice on dealing with mortgage arrears, it also has information about the recently unveiled government mortgage rescue plan that will stop you losing your home if you can't pay your mortgage.

The forums on this website are very busy and helpful, I would suggest that if you feel up to explaining it all you should post outlining your situation. I'm sure they could give you some practical advice on how to protect your money from him, and from yourself when he's manipulating you. You'll doubtless get a lot of sympathy for your situation.

Quite honestly, from the sounds of things, your partner will not stop milking you until all the money is gone. He's willing to sleep rough to fund his habit and put himself in considerable discomfort, so he's willing to exploit every last penny from you no matter the consequences to you and your kids.

You need to plan strategies for coping because it sounds like you're pretty close to financial meltdown already. Better to face up to it and be prepared so you can engineer a softer landing.

Onelife, sad to say I would consider if he has someone else. Remember how good they are at lying. Do you really think he would sleep rough? Sorry just a feeling I get reading your posts.

Hopefull you sound like you are a few steps on from me right now, as you are properly outraged. You know when you breathe on glass and it fogs and then clears and becomes transparent? Well that is his behaviour now - transparent. He will never fool me again. I am the stage where I am reflecting in amazement at the things he has said and done, and why I did not just walk away.

Actually I know why. Because over the years I had learned to settle for so very little in relationships that I was all too willing to believe that the lovely man I deserved had finally arrived. By the time the mean-and-sweet cycle began I was well and truly hooked into the whole co-dependent, enabling charade.

I am having the last laugh though. For the first time in my life I am truly independent and don't need a man. I put my key in my own front door and run my own life the way I want to.

Whereas he is just onto his next victim, on the same sad old cycle. He'll never know the joy of a healthy respectful, loving relationship...not even with himself.

And that is his punishment.

Onelife this is excellent advice you have been given re money. If you could call his bluff on the mortgage payments do you think he would back down?

"If you could call his bluff on the mortgage payments do you think he would back down?"

It's not even about calling his bluff, it's about taking away his power over her. He uses onlife's fear of losing her home and ability to provide for her kids to manipulate money from her. He promises dire financial consequences if she doesn't do as he says. So if the worst case scenario is considered and planned for, that power he wields over her is gone and she can start envisioning a life without him.

Onelife, I have an anxiety disorder and have spent a lot of my adult life freaking out about money (I have a few debts). The one thing I've found that actually helps is taking a deep breath, getting a friend to hold my hand (literally sometimes), and facing it head on. Since then, I can sleep a lot more soundly!

I went to the local advice centre and saw a lovely financial advisor who has helped me negotiate debts and she will deal with agressive collectors for me, which I find tough because of my anxiety. I went to the money savings expert website, realised I was far from alone and actually in much better shape than some people are. The really encouraging thing is that some of these people who are worse off than me have managed to come out the other side, and that gave me a lot of long needed hope!

dizietsma, you put that so much better than me!

I saw ex this morning and managed to pass an hour without incident or disrespect. I am not so daft as to think it will last but I like to think he got the message from last time.

Mine too this morning when he came to take DD's to school - I am not foolish enough to be sucked back in though
THIS IS THE USUAL CYCLE LADIES !!!
Just repeat after me, we are so much better than them, we dont care !!!

I back up everything you've all said about moneysavingexpert - absolutely brilliant site. The fact is that if you miss one mortgage payment they are not going to descend from hell and take your house away.
I know it's a situation you don't want but believe me I've been in mortgage arrears and they are actually quite understanding at least for just one or two missed payments - and in fact by now they are probably dealing with a whole lot worse with so many people in difficulty.
So tell him to sod off with his threat and say OK I won't pay the mortgage then. It will put you back in control. Then phone the mortgage people say you are having a temporary difficulty this month but will pay what you can - even if its £100 they will get off your back over it. BTW it will take more than a couple of days for him to open a new account so he can't do that over night in order to get his payment in there.
Sorry I'm just writing as I'm thinking but this man is making me so annoyed because he is denying your kids money they need in the same way that mine has manipulated us into hardship by not working.

You know what I cant get my head around macdoodle?
That it might still continue AFTER he has met someone else?
Its not logical but I think, why do you still need to control me, you have a new victim! I know they dont see things like sane rational people but I thought if I stopped behaving like we were in a relationship (ie engaging) he might stop treating me like it.

(I have a long way to go, dont I?)

I can but hope that he will continue to respect my boundaries now I have very calmly made them clear. I have demonstrated that I'll just walk away without a backward glance and that any threats are just water off a duck's back.

We'll see...

Thanks everyone.
I'm signed up to that moneyexpert site, and get emails from them,so will have a more thorough look

I did decide that I wouldmake do with what was in my possession, andleave him with what was his. However, I was waiting for 1 final payment which would see me through for a bit - unfortunately the invoice has beenmislaid and delayed, and so the £3k I've been waiting for has been used as a tool against me.

Now, I have 2 months in arrears, although made small payment towards it. I'm hoping if this money arrives, I can pay 1 month's mortgage - the company told me they start litigation when 3 months in arrears. I also hope I'll qualify for benefits, and will get at least most of the mortgage paid. Then can negotiate re debts, and take it from there - that's my survival plan, that's what will allow me to end this blackmail, but if I don't get that money now, it really looks possible like I will be repossessed which will just add to the vast debt

He's disappeared off again,no doubt cashing the cheque he promised to us. 1 minute he was cooking dinner for dd1, the next sent text "going to the market", later phoned to say sorting a problem at work - 4 hours later no sign, phone switched off. Yet he even went to a drug counselling session today!

No, I don't think he has anyone else as such - he has lots of women who he's in contact with through dating website, and apparently gets sex from prostitutes, but I think it is quite feasible that he keeps it that way, as apparently he has issues over sex and intimacy - ie,can't have sex with someone if he cares about them - think he has issues about how a mother is no longer sexual etc (unless he's on drugs, then doesn't care)

I'mwith you about how they keep all the abuse hidden away - today we were out in town, and because I was disagreeing with him, and angry (but not shouting or screaming or behaving in anyway madly, but probably having an obvious disagreement), he told me I looked like trailer trash for arguing in public, how we should talk about these things in private. Although at 1 point when I refused to give him some money he started folloing me everywhere, right behind me - totally loony - til I said "will you leave me alone" loudly enough for people in the shop to hear, and then he dropped away.

It's like he turns into a crazy madman til he gets his way, then all sweetness and light

Mine still continues despite meeting someone else.He will still scream at me given the opportunity, but thats rare as i avoid him.The odd occasions he has hes had it back ten times worse, ill admit to humilating and belittling him to shut him up, hes slowly learning its not worth it , as its him that ends up being reduced to tears now, not me.

He still intrudes into my life and manipulates me via the dcs, he feels i should still spend time with him " for the dcs sake ".

He denys having someone new, although i know this for a fact.I feel sorry for her , i dont think shes any idea whats coming her way, and while its obvious to me shes being treated badly like some cheap secret she obviously thinks hes the best thing since sliced bread.

I think we all probably start out by thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread, because initially, until the moment comes when they feel that they have 'caught' us and we won't leave(usually moving in/marriage or kids), they CAN be. It's all lies, of course, but it's very difficult to tell as they are supportive, kind, caring, loving etc. My EA started after we got married and then it was so sporadic that I was able to put it down to outside factors like work, bad temper etc. It was only after my beautiful DD was born that he felt safe unleashing his inner psycho, and it got worse and worse until DS was born when he really decided to raise the bar on being an abusive a*hole. Thank you so much, all of you, for validating my knowledge that this is WRONG WRONG WRONG and that it's fine to ask him to go. He did say last week that if we broke up he would leave as "I know you can take care of the kids better than me" (please read as: "It's FAR too much like hard work to look after the kids on my own and hold down a job - why, it would leave me no time for drinking beer, watching football, playing online snooker and visiting my best friends William Hill and Paddy Power!"). I've been crying a lot when I'm on my own - I know in my heart it is absolutely over, and I guess I am grieving for my hopes and dreams and for a man that turned out to be a big fat figment of his own imagination when I thought he was the one. It only remains to pluck up the courage to tell him it's really over and that I want him to go. I am going to tell everyone I can what I am planning so they will know, in case it turns nasty. I'm scared as I have no idea how he will react, and I just know that it will be horrible, and he will make my life as awful as he can until he leaves. I would leave again, but I have nowhere to go and the only refuge they can get me into is the other side of London and I really want to try not to disrupt my little ones routine with their nursery, grandma, friends etc unless I am forced to. I will ask him to leave and see what happens, and if he won't, then I will.
By the way, can I recommend another book that tipped me over the edge in terms of strength and self-belief. It's called "Power & Control:why charming men make dangerous lovers" It's written by Sandra Horley, who founded Refuge and it is BRILLIANT. I was worried that it would focus on violence, but she pays as much attention to EA, and takes it as seriously. I actually feel as though I am reading a book about my husband! She talks about Charm Syndrome Man - the idea that they do genuinely appear to be fantastic at first, and can do for years. She also says that it's not just dysfunctional women who get suckered either, but normal, healthy, together women get fooled just as much (which made me feel a whole lot better, as I was kind of blaming myself for falling for it). Deffo worth a read - as usual, on Amazon £7.99 . I have discovered that the best way to get your head round this is to READ READ READ as many books on the subject as you can and it slowly but surely sinks in. If, alongside the reading, you can witness their awful behaviour, it only serves to reinforce the message. I actually despise him, I genuinely don't think I love him any more, but I need time to absorb the loss .

"I am going to tell everyone I can what I am planning so they will know, in case it turns nasty."

I'd recommend picking a day when he'll be out all day, phoning a few friends and asking them to come over and help you pack his stuff while he's out. Leave it outside in boxes and binbags and get all your friends and family who are willing to back you up to physically be there right behind you when you tell him you're kicking him out.

This way he has no opportunity to get nasty, or dangerous. This way your friends will know what is happening and be able to directly support you.

I know abusers isolate and you become use to coping on your own. You may even feel a bit foolish about the whole thing. You may not want your friends and family to see him at his worst. BUT when you are recovering from abuse, you need support from people. When you are making a stand against abuse it is dangerous to be all alone. When you are recovering from abuse you need to learn that there is no shame is asking for support, it's healthy.

I'm sure it's a really difficult time for you, and you will have to grieve, but you don't have to be alone. Reach out- the minute you tell them the truth about your abusive relationship I bet your friends and family will be desperate to help.

Cloudbase, I can also recommend that Sandra Horley book. I have it and it's excellent.

Very good advice dizietsma. Support, support, support - that's what you need.

"I am someones daughter, just as important and valuble and precious as mine is. We all are. "

Very well said hopefullandfree. That should be the mantra for this thread!

I've spent hours reading this thread with tears rolling down. I could identify with so much of it. I have been with dp for more than 10yrs, the first 3 were good, I had just left my first and only relationship with a man who was nice but dull. Dp was the opposite, very fiery and exciting(or so I thought!). We have lived apart for much of the time due to his work abroad, but for the last few years he has had no job and so we're together 24/7 . His daily mood swings, tantrums, sulks, silences, are all down to me apparently , I 'provoke' him. My dc (from 1st relationship) and I are very close, which irrates him a lot (although he is ok with dc). He refuses to do any domestic chores, and is jealous of the fact that I have more qualifications than him, telling me to get a 'little job' (i.e, somewhere where there won't be any men working)or to stay at home and have a baby. I know I can't leave until my dc is old enough, she has seen one father figure leave (he has never really kept in touch, never given her a penny) and as much as she finds present dp a pain in the a* at times she would be very unsettled if we left. Thoughts of a life without him are all that keeps me going. Thanks for this thread.

beanie35 welcome to the thread. I am sorry you are going through this and like you I lived with my EA 24/7, so I can identify with the experience of mood swings and tantrums.
Have you been able to talk to any support agencies, for example Women's Aid? They are fantastic.

Please if you have the headspace consider life without this man. Those of us who have left never regret it and the impact on our well-being (and in turn our DC's) is ultimately very positive.

I do know however how difficult it is to see a way out (I did not have DD when I lived with him and that was hard enough to leave even then) and the importance of a supportive peer group is vital, which I hope we can be here.

Hello I'm so glad this thread is still going it is a great support to me and I'm sure others .
Through this thread I have gained the strength to actually say out loud to a friend that I sufferred EA. She has recently witnessed some of his abusive behaviour. So it is out there now. Even though I have talked at length to another friend about his behaviour it has never been named before. This second friend has described to me how he is now subjecting his PA at work (the suspected ow) to it at work now, and people are noticing.
I do feel a little scared that as I am bringing it out into the open he will threaten me about it, he is well known in our little part of the world here and his reputation is everything. Have been divorced over two years and am still coming across poeple who he works with who don't know we are divorced!
But I'm just going to tell if like it is now, am so fed up of people looking at me with quizzical looks and not understanding why I left him.
Watch this space....

"he refuses to do any domestic chores, and is jealous of the fact that I have more qualifications than him, telling me to get a 'little job' (i.e, somewhere where there won't be any men working)or to stay at home and have a baby. I know I can't leave until my dc is old enough, she has seen one father figure leave (he has never really kept in touch, never given her a penny) and as much as she finds present dp a pain in the a* at times she would be very unsettled if we left. Thoughts of a life without him are all that keeps me going. Thanks for this thread."

You can't leave because of your kids. Your daughter. Your daughter who learning from her male role model that male partners in her life will not do any domestic chores and she should accept that. That any partners she has will belittle her intelligence and qualifications. That any partner she has will belittle any career she has. That her primary purpose is to reproduce and any other role than that is risable and unimportant. That any partner she has will emotionally abuse her, and she should just accept that for the sake of the kids.

Your DD will grow up far healthier without a male role model like that. Upheaval or no. Kids are resilient, she will suffer far more from internalising what she has seen you tolerate as acceptable in relationships over the course of years in an abusive relationship than from the temporary upheaval of a break-up.

You are doing your daughter harm by staying with this man, not protecting her from upset. I grew up watching my mother being emotionally and physically abused, I can tell you from first-hand experience that your DD will be better served if you leave him.

Just think about it.

Couldn't agree more.
I repeated the patterns of my childhood by choosing a man just like my father. No physical violence but just as damaging.
I miss my EA today quite badly. The man I thought he was. I want it to be all a bad dream, and have the DP I used to write about on here to walk through the door.

But that's not reality, just my need to mourn. Just part of the process. I no longer wish to be back in the relationship. I am moving forward by degrees, and what gives me the strength to continue is seeing my daughter grow into a happy, confident little girl because I have sidelined her father and minimized his involvement in her life. I'm lucky because withdrawal and emotional withholding is one of his specialities.
He thinks he punishing me but I have learned to use it to my advantage.

Meant to say, have ordered Sandra Horley book to add to my "library"