Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

madame - i guess it would be an option, though have 2 properties in my name, so seems totally mad to have to go somewhere else. Buying properties was his decision that I allowed self to be talked into,for various reasons. Just a huge burden now, made worse by economic climate of course.

What I continue to struggle ith is the idea of taking more determined action to regain my life. I want to tell him it's over, for him to accept that,for him to get clean, for us to work out access and financial affairs and live ok-ly ever after.

I don't want to lose him his job over the drug issue etc,I don't want to have to go to court regarding injunctions to keep him away. Fgs, when I told my family he wasn't living here and I was broke, and they asked if he was helping financially, I couldn't even bring myself to say - no of course not, he's the reason i'm broke!!! They know he had drug prob as I told my other sister a year ago, but none of them ask about things, and I,madly, prefer not to make them hate him, than ask for help.

Probably not helped by the way he has criticised my family, criticised me for telling him I was happy with my family and childhood etc when I met him, when that view was entirely crazy on my part, criticised me for confiding in friends/ telling sister about his drug problem as I have made any potential family gatherings awkward etc etc.

I know his actions aren't that of a caring man, so why should I care, but I still find myself protecting him, his reputation etc as feel responsible for him / sorry for him etc. I am crazy!

onelife - you feel responsible for him because you have been conditioned to.

What you feel is entirely normal given your circumstances, so try not to question why you feel that way, just accept that you do for now, it will free up energy you need elsewhere.

Of course you dont want any of the things you state, because no-one would choose to be your situation, but try not to think about them. If they happen, they happen. By that stage it will just be part of the process and you will deal with it, and you will get support.

Have you been reading starsandstripes thread on AIBU? That could be you, on your way to freedom from a nasty bully.

I cannot stress enough that you need to start telling as many people as you can about your situation. Women's Aid, your family, DC's school, your GP, ANYONE who is in a position to help. The more supported you feel, the better able you will be to make decisions.

Of course he would try and change your mind about your family, its part of the isolating tactics these men use.
However, if you were happy before you met him, that is VERY good news because you will be better equipped to bounce back from this.

Think of how much he has eroded your self-esteem and your self-confidence so that he is the centre of your world. Imagine how far away that is from the sort of relationship you deserve.
Think about every selfish shitty thing he has done to you, and think about how your misery affects your DC's and start allowing yourself to feel angry with him.

He deserves to be left in the dust, alone with his debts and problems and excuses and misery.
Believe me, you owe him NOTHING.

Guess which one he is?

Thanksforyour bracing,supportive words, Madame

Read the link, but sometimes that's what confuses me, because of course he's not all bad. He encourages me in some ways - ie tells me to get a professional qualif.But on the other hand, if I don't want to go down that route, he tells me I'll never earn a useful amount of money, that I'mwasting my brain etc. When I thought about working at weekends when dd1 was younger, he didn't want to do the childcare.

He does tell me I look attractive, says how intelligent I am. But on the other hand he has been advertising for other women for over a year. So it islike he gives with 1 hand, and takes away with the other.

He has spent all evening since bringing dd1 back from his mum's trying to get me to give him the last £120 onmy credit card, on the basis that he will replace the money this week. If I refuse he will give these people the £500 he gets later this week. I will get nothing, other than some money due to be paid straight into my account at some point.

He keeps trying to get me to say that I accept that this outcome is my fault, because I will not give him the £120.

He kept doing this kind of incredulous sarcastic snort of laughter, like- "oh you are unbelievable!" . Kept interrupting kids'bedtime asking me for the money- when I said no, because every time I give into this argument, I end up worse off - he would ten say- oh no need to shout, you are damaging the kids, going on in front of them. Despite fact i kept asking him to leave the room, and was himkept coming in the say I should give the money.

He has rung about 50 x or more since, though have turned ringers off so cannot feel the pressure.

Is enough to drive anyone mad!

Dd1 was asking for a big bed tonight. And I can't afford one Don't drive so even freecycle difficult. I've so failed my kids by staying here, and by giving in to him How could I do that?????

I wouldn't say i was exactly happy before I met him. I was happy enough with my family, though he has spent time telling me how they didn't treat me well enough (he's one to talk!) But relationship wise, hadn't had much experience, only 1 ltr with someone I wasn't ever serious about, just someone to see at weekends, and a flirtation/fling thing. Was thinking I would never meet anyone special, getting old, would be spinster forever sort of thing, so of course he comes along, treats me like I'm very special.

Now reading some of the helpful hints i see danger signs! A week after I met him he gave me a key to his house, cleared out a drawer for me in his room, took me to meet his parents. A couple of weeks later told me he's inquired about wedding costs. One of my friends told me he seemed too nice. She was right!

Though of course he can be nice, and is better at doing some childcare these days, though on his terms.

But he usually spoils the good things. Like he was v good and supportive when my mum died. But the night after her funeral he went out to do drugs. When I say this was upsetting, he says it is my fault. He'd wanted to take £200 to go out for the night a few days before - I'd said if he did that he might miss work and get into trouble, why not wait til weekend. So he chose the night of my mum's funeral as the aternative. I said fine -but I didn't mean go and take drugs and act like paranoid weirdo. But of course it is my responsibility that he did that.

He's done so many awful things. I would never have believed I could have stayed with someone like this

a -the things he says? Just words. Meaningless.
Good for you for switching the ringers off
no man is all bad just like no-one is 100% perfect. But there is a level of care, commitment, respect etc that we need and deserve and he is failing on all counts.

How dare he demand money when your DD needs a bed?!

Can I suggest your local Gumtree? Sometimes sellers will deliver items.

Your last sentence echoes what every abused woman is thinking right now. But it's not such a mystery. We have feelings for these men, and they know how to push our buttons to get what they want, and of that includes playing with the kids for a bit or paying a compliment, they will force themselves because there's a payoff.

What does he think is going to happen when the overdraft limit is reached and the credit card maxed? You can't get blood out of a stone.

Please if you can take that last £100 and open an account somewhere as the start of an emergency fund. Tell him whatever you like to cover it and practice saying the following:

Your drug habit, your problem
What do you want me to do about it?
My immediate concern is the kids. Why should they suffer because you won't stop taking drugs?
It's your mess, you deal with it.
You should have thought of that before
I don't have time to deal with this right now.
They'll just have to wait, then, won't they?
This is getting really old now
Am I not making myself clear? There is no more money.
Repeating yourself won't make the money appear you know.
Well they'll just have to, won't they? Nothing I can do about it.
I'm going now, I need to sleep, this has really tired me out .

And so on!

Have you managed to keep him out of the house?

And could I now suggest, if you have another property, selling it to one of those companies who buys them quickly? You get less money but if you could take it and run it would be so good!

Onelife I am behind you 100% and I know that you are nowhere near ready to leave yet. You need to build up as many varied resources as you can before it becomes a real possibility to you. But it will, because he will never change and because you know you deserve better (that's why you joined us on the thread).

Keep posting. This is the start. I know it's like wading through treacle but we will get there.

Hey onelife. My god your P is a piece of work! I've been reading your posts with a growing sense of outrage on your behalf

"If I refuse he will give these people the £500 he gets later this week. I will get nothing, other than some money due to be paid straight into my account at some point."

The truth is that whilst he's trying to give you the impression that you have some control over when and how much money he will give you- you don't.

He controls when and how much money he gives you. And even then, he's not in control, the addiction is.

The pretence of control over circumstances is his way of manipulating you to give him what he wants. It's a carrot dangled on a string in front of you, but you are never going to get that carrot.

He seems committed to a pretty serious habit and he will take you down with it. I understand this might be scary to contemplate right now, but the only way you can help him is to cut him loose of the money and support you have been giving him. You are enabling. You don't have to act on this immediately. But you must understand this is the only way things can get better.

Have you considered attending an Al-Anon group? I know that your P is addicted to harder drugs (I'm guessing coke from the behaviour and debts), but his behaviours and yours are identical to a couple dealing with alcoholism. Just look at the personal story on the sidebar on this page, it sounds very similar to your story.

I hope things improve for you soon. You deserve so much better.

Thanks,your support means a lot.

He left,and didn't come back,though when I looked at phone later, he'd sent texts saying he was on his way back. Then 1 saying I wasn't worth it. Thank goodness!

I'm getting better at sticking to my guns - shame it's takenme til there's nothing else to give! Money running out is only an obstacle for him to overcome - he has pursuaded me to take out a loan before - recently he suggested seeing if I could open another account and get another overdraft, which i refused to do.

Just had other property valued, and now looks like in negative equity, so no solution there .

Will try and get some official help this week, and need to send more info so hopefully will qualify for some benefits - not sure what will do if not.

How is everyone else?

dizie - thanks - I did go to some counselling,and also attended family support counselling at local drug centre which was helpful, but limited in attendance by childcare issues because of the times they were on offer.

I know I've enabled him.

Got to go

Article about enabling

"I did go to some counselling,and also attended family support counselling at local drug centre which was helpful, but limited in attendance by childcare issues because of the times they were on offer."

I'm pretty sure Al-Anon have evening meetings, so probably easier to get a sitter for, but if you find that too difficult to arrange they also have online meetings.

I would also recommend looking up forums online of families dealing with addiction. Peer support is the most valuable support, hence the popularity of mumsnet! I haven't time to search one up right now, but will post some later when DD lets me.

Ex used to be my childcare for counselling sessions, but missed a couple of sessions when he didn't bother coming home.

Dd used to a friend's house for the family support ones, but she was really sad.

Now having 2 of them it's even harder, especially with bf / baby needing settling sometimes. Plus house like a bedsit atmoment as work needing doing (and no money to finish) so can't really have babysitter.

Did use to go on families anon forum.

I'm definitely improving though. And that's another reason it's good not having him around, as otherwise I live with constant anxiety of what he's doing when he's late /doesn't ring etc, because I dread the financial implications that follow.

Trouble is, I know that enabling prevents the addict experiencing the consequences of their behaviour - however the truth is that we are all at the mercy of consequences of his behaviour - another reason essential to not be with him, even if rest of his behaviour was ok.

Can I just say aaaaagggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
When will he let go and leave me alone
THREE years since he had his affair !!! TWO and half years we have been living apart!!!!
He is with the OW, the baby they had while he was still with me is nearly 2!!
My DD2 which I had during an attempted reconsiliation is 16 months!!
I have a new DP, he is with OW!!! So why why cant he just leave me alone Still with the threats, the verbal abuse, the insults - when will it end do they ever give up

Oh macdoodle how is he doing this and how do you respond? (if you do)
I have had three days of blissful silence and am hoping this IT and after me telling him to mind his own business I am hoping he will just give up. Unlikely tho...
He has OW and the way he behaved last time we met makes me think she is letting him get away with some pretty horrendous behaviour.
Onelife good to read that you are feeling a tiny bit stronger today and hope you get more support in place soon.

Had lunch with very good-looking old flame today. Ex would go ballistic if he knew

Macdoodle- is there any way to cut down the contact between you? Is he behaving like this when you see him when your dd visits him? Or is he harrassing you in between visits as well?

Madame- lunch with old flame sounds good, it's so good to hear of people moving on with their lives (even if exes can't let go)

Onelife - have been reading your posts and am really touched by what you have said. I totally understnad when you say 'What I continue to struggle ith is the idea of taking more determined action to regain my life. I want to tell him it's over, for him to accept that,for him to get clean, for us to work out access and financial affairs and live ok-ly ever after.' (Apart from the drugs bit mine doesn't do that is just addicted to sex instead)
As you say when the brain washing has been going on for years you don't know what you think anymore. This is just what I want too.
Mine has got no income won't even sign on - he kept me hanging on saying he was getting an inheritance so there was no point. When the money came through he blew £2k of it on a new computer and then got annoyed with me when I wanted a small amount to pay for something for kids. My parents have given us money to keep us going but he can't even show gratitude for this because my mum doesn't agree with his (pretty extreme) political ideas. Every penny they gave us I put straight into paying bills whilst he felt fit to withold the money he got.
It is only now reading all these posts that I'm realising that withholding money is classic abusive behaviour and that it's not just shouting and screaming. As you say onelife my h can be perfectly nice and supportive some days and this just makes the whole thing so much harder. Am still waiting to get through to WA whenever I have opportunity to call they are busy

NK
Have you looked on the website to see if there is a local branch of WA in your area? It might be easier to get through to them. I have an appointment to see someonenext week,sohope that helps.

You are right about brainwashing - I sometimes doubt what's normal anymore.

I'm wavering already. Someone please tell me that being on my own is signifcantly enough better to warrant the carnage I'm causing by breaking everything up.

ditzzy. Yes it is better. Carnage is what you are going through now, but when you have gone through it and processed it and got your own mind and opinions back:
I promise you, its the best feeling in the world.
You can only leave when you are ready though. And you should have adequate supports in place too. Otherwise there is a high likelihood you will return.

It is tough to leave, because we crave the devil we know. I found continually reading the Lundy and Pat Craven books helped, and being on here.

Now I have got him out of my head and see him for the immature bully he is, I have no tender memories. The good bits were him setting me up or creating a false sense of security. And that makes it SO much easier to move on.

ditzzy
carnage is having our kids witness interactions they shouln't, thining abusive relationships are the norm, and possiby growing up to have simiar reationships themselves.
It is also the destruction of our lives.
Don't doubt it is the right thing to do.
Living apart doesn't mean the dc can't have relationship with both parents. Of course splitting up is hard, but staying isn't the answer. Plenty of threads have comments from people whose parents had an abusive reationship, and seem to say they wish their parents had split up.

NK - try a non-local branch (ie one in another city) if you cant get through to your own local one. Just being able to talk to someone who validates your feelings will make a difference.

Sorry about dodgy typing. Think baby sick is sticking keys together, space bar also not great

Sorry NK meant to add my advice to onelife's and say ALSO try a non-local number as an alternative

Thanks ladies. 'Fortunately' we don't have any kids to witness it. We stopped TTC when I started to recognise we were somewhat dysfunctional. Actually I realised we are as bad as my parents and the prospect of being as sad as my mum at 65 terrified me (they should have split a very long time ago - and even they tell me it would be better for me to leave).

I remember how good it felt last time I walked out, having my own flat and feeling free. I do know it will be better really, its just whether its better enough to make it worth it IYSWIM. This time I have suggested he leave, rather than me (mainly for financial reasons) which can't easily happen for another 6 weeks or so. In the meantime he's doing the full charm offensive. I already have plans to be out all weekend, I know I have to stay out of touch to see this through.

In that case ditzzy, it will be easier in many ways and you can look forward to meeting someone who will treat you with love and respect.
(I speak as someone who went into a refuge pre-DD and was soooo glad I kept my own home after she arrived).

Hold onto that memory of how good it felt to be free.
I was so beaten down I have fond memories of the refuge fgs!!!

I cant tell you how happy I am that ex is someone else's problem now, that I wake every morning without that pit of nerves in my stomach, that life can be lived at my pace...that I can parent DD the way I want to.

We all deserve that. We should take it for granted as most people do.

Ditzzy YES!! Dont you dare waver

Despite my ongoing "carnage" and ongoing EA despite being seperated over 2 years!

Last night I ran upstairs (yes ran up my wooden floors, there was no sarcastic commenst about herds of elephants, dressed up as a joke, so why on earth couldnt I take a joke), I left a mess in the lounge , a mess in the kitchen (and had no comments about what a shit housekeeper I am, despite the fact I had been at work all day), I checked my 2 sleeping children who are slowly learning that it is not normal to be put down and criticised, shouted at and insulted or prefer to spend every moment and penny in the pub rather than with your lovely family, I spread out in my bed (without someone groping me and demanding sex then refusing to get up to either child in the morning, or if they did come up and pull the duvet off me whilst bemoaning what a fat lazy cow I was)!!!

So yes, it is in a million different ways infinitely better, and not for a moment do I regret my decision (gosh that was therapeutic)!!
And tomorrow my lovely new DP arrives for a week - he will be kind and respectful, he wont shout or insult me, he will pay for everything and enjoy spoiling me, he will want to spend time with me and my children, he wont badger me or demand sex, he wont insult me if I fall asleep or wake me up but quietly sit watching crap TV so he doesnt have to wake me up to get the remote control, we will have lovely kind caring gentle sex!!

So ditzzy yes it is so very worth it!!