Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Useful links again for those who missed them earlier:

How to tell if they are changing their abusive behaviour

Warning signs of abusive behaviour

Children and domestic abuse

www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Victim/daybyday.htm Surviving after separation]]

Myths and Facts about Domestic Abuse

Why couples counselling does not work in abusive relationships

From Lundy Bancroft regarding how men confuse love and abuse

Traumatic Bonding - Essential Reading!

More Lundy Bancroft on this Forum, re Custody and Visitation Issues, dont be put off by the title

I saw Ex yesterday, all was fine until he started asking me personal questions. I have decided that my personal life is no longer any of his business and told him so.

He didnt like that at all, saying that because of our DD he had a right to know who I was seeing, and if not he would involve courts and social services. I told him to go ahead.

He tried to tell me I was being unfair because he had told me about OW. I said that was his choice. I was choosing to keep my business to myself.

He threatened to take DD, roughly yanking my hand off the buggy and saying I could call the police and get her from his house. He soon stopped when he realised I wasnt responding to the threat.

When the persuading and wheedling and force didnt work he got verbally nasty and called me a psycho, among other things. I had alreaady got up to leave by this point, and he followed me along the street, saying "Why wont you just tell me?" "I just want to know (DD) is safe" - I said three times of course she was.

Eventually he gave up. I kept walking without a backward glance.

It was amazing. Not engaging, remaining detached, it was SOOOO clear how completely irrational, manipulative, childish and vile he is.

I felt so good afterwards and still do today. Onwards and upwards!

well done for not engaging, know how difficult it is not to respond to their irrational rants.

Well done MO for remaining so calm brilliant! Thanks to all for the posts about depression they were really helpful.
C'estlavie just wondering how you managed to make the break and leave if he had no income and you managed to move out. This is desperately what I want to do but feel stuck as he even refuses to sign on so no money at all. As I said in an earlier post he has said he wants to sell the house and is 'calling the estate agent' - one week on he hasn't done it and seems to have completely forgotten about it. But also says that he won't move out before this and it's 'tough shit' if we have to carry on living together.
Have been having new worry today as in the last couple of weeks an ex-OW of his has been coming round helping in the garden!!!! I'm supposed to be grateful that she is helping 'us'! OK I know I'm crazy and should have told her to F* off ages ago but it's part of a long story in which I have gradually been persuaded to accept things are normal when they're not and feel bad about them if I complain.
Anyway worry is that if I do leave and get place to rent he might move ex-OW in, in order to get her to pay the mortgage and then I would struggle to get the house. Also think it will be hard to persuade kids that they should move somewhere else when they could (in their eyes) live in their normal home with Daddy.
Sorry this is all a bit of a rant my mind is spinning trying to think of my options mixed up with all the doubts I feel because of the mind games he has played with me.

God MO that could be my XH exactly - he wants to know every detail of my new DP (including our sex life ) - I refuse same as you tell him its none of his business, then he does the same threatening to call social services, saying I am mad etc etc !
He says he has a right because I am exposing them to some "paedophile of the net" - I'm not and he isnt obviously, he is a lovely lovely kind man who I have known for 13 years and who found me again on FB So not a stranger in any way (and see see how I still feel I have to justify myself!!!)
On the other hand I am just supposed to accept him, OW, their baby (which she had when he was still with me), and my 2 DD's playing happy families in the park!! Now I dont give a toss as long as my girls are happy, but FGS this OW has behaved appalingly to me, lied manipulated threatened me, and showed absolutely no regard for my DD1 at any stage!!
Again as always double standards, hypocrisy, and all about him!!

NK1`Dont apologise for ranting - we all know how you feel! Apologies this is repeating myself, but have you spoken to WA - sorry cant check earlier posts am feeding DD as i type - they are so good for helping you work through the tangle of conflicts and are a friendly and objective ear.

Macdoodle I fear his new partner will be pregnant very soon. I actually feel sorry for her as he is being "King of the Castle" and she loves him and wants him to marry her [shudder] It is as if he went out and found another "me" because he treated her better than anyone she had been with before, well initially anyway. That was what made me fall in love with him. She also has abuse in her background.

Apparently she doesn't want kids, but he has a way of making them seem very appealling and when i met her she asked me lots of questions about breastfeeding, etc.
Just a feeling but I am dreading the news. Best thing that ever happened to ME, but then I wasnt living with him and have done it pretty much on my own.

Maybe it will be okay. Unfortunately there is nothing i can do about it so must just keep my nose out.

I have realised that I dont love him any more, so the pain of his rejection has lessened A LOT.

Thanks MO will try and find a moment when I can call WA. Tried last Saturday night when things were really desperate but guess Saturday night is peak time for them and couldn't get through.

Hi, I havent been able to read through the whole thread, but am marrie to someone who deos emotionally abuse me when fighting. Our fights always start off over a really smll thing and escalates. I am ofter left wondering why it has become such a big deal. But when we fight, his technique to "win" is so slag me (also often my family) off, this last time he called me a "F*king cnt".. worse, in front of DS. He does not sem to feel bad about it as I "pushed him", I make him so angry that he reacts like that ie: not his fault!
What I want to know is:

IF this kind of emotional abuse only happens when these arguments arrupt, it is "emotional abuse" per se or just nasty arguing?

The reason I ask is I would like to try counselling but have read up that couples couselling never works in emotionally abusive relationships. Which basicaly means we must just seperate, right?

He is a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde: can be my best friend 95% of the time , and an utter bastard the rest fo the time.

NK1 - Keep trying, it is worth it. Hope you get through.

blahdiblahblah - Not taking responsibility for himself (ie saying that you make him angry) is one one of the markers of an abusive man, yes. And name calling.

Please do read the Lundy Bancroft book if you can. If he is emotionally abusive it is unlikely it is just confined to arguments (although that is bad enough) and the book will inform you about what else to look out for.

Also if you can read some of the links posted on this thread you might find those helpful too?

ditzzy well done for ending it

madameovary - v impressed at your ability not to engage - I think that's a huge achievement, they get so brilliant at knowing how to trigger a reaction.

Someone said something (here or possibly on another thread) about stopping being abusive didn't mean stopping being lazy and selfish - I just wondered - does anyone here have a partner or ex who wasn't lazy and selfish at home? My theory is that is part of abusive behaviour, as they don't feel responsibility of sharing the workload

Thanks onelife. I still need all you ladies to hold my hand and make sure it keeps moving the right way though.

We've still not discussed 'next steps' yet. (One of the first ones being that I'm not intending to go to an event with his family in a couple of weeks time - I am not even going to think about what he's going to tell his parents on that one, his responsibility not mine) We also need to discuss my plan that I'm going to buy him out of the house and he'll have to go elsewhere. We both know it, but can't quite say it still. Anyway, he's gone elsewhere for the weekend, so I'm enjoying a glass or two of wine which tastes all the better for knowing that noone's about to come in and accuse me of being alcoholic about it!

I completely agree with you on the lazy/selfish thing. I would be shocked if any of the EA guys wasn't - I think its all part of the entitlement complex. They know they are worth more than us, and doing anything for themselves is just below them, so us bunch of mugs do it all for them. Its certainly a very big factor from my stbxH.

Can i just say to anyone whose ex has threatened or has actually called the SS to check up on you.. this has happened to me on a regular basis and, while it pisses you off, and them, because their time is wasted, and you are embarrassed or put out, they have a legal duty to check so please don't let it get you down

Today i had the SS come round yawn again..... to check my cupboards for food and to make sure there isn't dog poo in my kitchen yawn again as DS1's dad is obviously still obsessed with interfering in my life or making his presence felt..bless

As DS2's dad is doing just about everything to get back in my knickers keep on my good side, he has gone round to 'have a word' lol

AND i have yet another glowing parenting and housekeeping report to add to my resume hehehe

ditzzy - yes, i often ask ex why he so obviously thinks he is more important than me, deserves so much more - I haven't had a ddecent night's sleep in 7 months,no more than 4 hours in 1 stretch, yet he sleeps whenever and for however long he likes.

He knows there is £100 left on my credit card before hits maxed out, and he expects me to give this to him to pay "his last" debt.His threat as always is that if I don't, he will have to pay them more, therefore I will suffer more, financially. Usually I give in, then he spends his pay anyway, so i end up much worse off. He has been claiming all is changed, he is just focussed on how to resolve the problems,can't believe has got into this mess etc etc, yet he has asked me about 5 times this evening, and always ends with saying, well you have to accept then that you won't get money later in the week. And wanting me to accept that I am therefore responsible for not being able to pay my bills etc,because I am making the "wrong choice" at this point. So twisty - I must do what he says or I am chossing any negative effects, even though all his choices that led to this point.

Stercus - how many times have you had ss round? How long have you been split up from him?

Onelife - thanks. Let's just say I had help
on the lazy / selfish thing. Ex's speciality was being seen to be taking care of me, when we lived together he did a lot of the cooking and was very competent round the house, but there was a payoff, which was that he was doing it because I was too incapable/mad/feeble blah blah.
So it was very much about control and keeping me in my place while appearing caring. Emotionally he was at best deficient and undermining and at worst nasty and vicious.

Onelife can you call the credit card company and report your card stolen? Then he wouldn't be able to use it. What he is doing to you makes my blood boil Ex would try to get me to use my credit card for things too, because he'd given all his up in favour of debt repayment schemes.

He was dreadful with money and liked to appear generous but all he was doing was running up huge debts he had no way of paying back.

LOADS

And they always expect a cuppa for their efforts lol

He tells them i have no food, ect, and phoned the police to tell them DS1 was home alone all day when in fact i had literally just gone to the shops, DS is 11 btw.. he was with a friend the same age and i was gone for approx 1 hour, i think XP must have been stalking me lol.. or have tabs on me, well thats his problem.. the police gave me crap about leaving kids home alone and i replied by quoting the law at them, they liked that not one bit.

I have been split from him for about 7-8 years.
He's a sadsack IMO still being interested in me and my life to the point he has gone to court to get contact with DS after not having anything to do with him since 2004, JUST so he could ask questions and threaten DS with making my life a misery if DS didn't go to live with him.
After this i asked for supervised contact, and he is already making an arse of himself by being agressive with the staff, and making personal comments about me to DS who then has to defend me, this didn't go down well in court and if he carries on i am going to apply for a no contact order.

I refuse to let it get to me, i try to look at the positive aspects which are that ss know they are just coming round to waste time finding out i have one pile of ironing, a small pile of washing, which the dog is usually lying on, no piles of dog crap anywhere in the house, my DP isn't beating the crap out of me or the kids, and we have a 52 inch tv, a wii, a ps3, an old xbox, an xbox 360, a 32 in tv in DS1's room, a motorbike , food in the cupboards, clothes in the kids wardrobes, dog hair everywhere, hoover/washing machine constantly on the go, the list goes on.

So, fuck him and what ever he hopes to achieve by phoning them every five minutes, i wish him all the luck in the world and hope he dies a slow agonising very sad very lonely death still infatuated by me and what he abused and lost.

Stercus - why is he still DP?

Mine is either P on here, when he's behaving, or FAP when he's not.

When Ex mentioned SS I told him they were already involved - I contacted them myself through my health visitor and they were very happy to close their file quickly.
I have had nothing but positive feedback - apparently DD is "a credit" to me.
DD is one now and parenting her has been pretty easy compared to how it would be to living with a baby and an belligerent adult toddler.

Dread - think Stercus' dp is her current partner, not the ex calling in ss.

Stercus - amazing you sound so upbeat - can't believe that somany years later he is still behaving like this

madame have reported cards lost on various occasions when I have stupidly let him have them to use in the middle of the night, then found he has waited til after midnight and used them again and taken more than he promised he would take - my stupidity for trusting him again and again, giving in to his pressure tactics.

Moved some debt onto another card to reduce payments with zero interest for a period, and planned not to use old card again - he then has filled it up again by taking / stealng / bullying / lying 2k off it s now I'm worse off again. I have no money to buy anything,can't pay mortgage etc, yet still his priority is his drug debt, despite claiming we are the priority.

This 2k he claimed was just them adding money because he couldn't repay straight away.Now have phone records (yes of course it's in my name as well as he has poor credit history) and shows he must have taken mnore while i was away, swearing he didn't. Also ran up vast phone bill watching porn, which shows when he took drugs as otherwise h could be at home watching it for free on computer. Don't know why i expect truth from him, but the endless lies are so frustrating. Must detach!

He phoned again this morning - he's taken dd1 to his mum's - he likes to ensure i am resting appropriately - if he is giving me a break, he likes to tel me exactly how i should use the time,eg before dd2 born, i should sleep whole time, not sit and use computer He started saying how busy with work he'd be, I said that was good - he said no, because just giving more money to these peope (ie, angling that i shoud give him the money now) - I pointed out that if he was so upset to be giving these peope his earnings (finds it easier to give them my money/debt) then he should have sought more help with his prob, and i have told him i'm upset he's given them about 30k in a year... he hung up. He doesn't ike me to talk about how i feel on issue because it's "not constructive" to tak about what he's done,or how i feel, we can only talk about how to resolve it - ie give them any money I can give him. Sorry for rant

Tried to contact local WA, who said would get someone who sees people at local family justice centre to call me,noresponse so far

onelife, that is so grim. And feel free to rant here.
Are you able to open a secret account of your own and direct money to it in some way? Or close the credit card account (saying you are no longer able to pay) and begin some lower rate repayments - I did this through Advice Shop and interest was also frozen.
Anything to stop him stealing your money!.
I know it is easy for me to say but how dare he make you responsible for his debts? Mine did it too but in a very underhand way.
If I were you I would be tempted to cut up all the cards so they couldn't be used, or change the pin number and claim they must be faulty, anything really!
Or do you have a friend with a paypal account (or use your own) which you could upload the funds from the card to? Then transfer them to a bank account if you see what I mean?

Sorry if I'm rambling, but his situation is NOTHING to do with you and yet you are worse off and he just doesnt care. What an arse.

Meant to add - you can also ask to stop recieving paper statements and set up online account instead, that gives you more control since it is password protected, etc.

He would then be unable to check how much was left on it (esp if you changed the pin number) and you could plead ignorance.

Ah they're all XP's now hehe i'm a HAPPILY newly single mummy and loving every minute

In between SS visits i have brought mesen a motorbike and now intending to do my CBT so i can go to work on my nice cheap to run bike lol

Its an 09 reg as well.. So stick that in ya pipe n smoke it XP..Both of you!! lololololol

madame- well i don't actually have any money any more. Just vast debt - the only money i have is overdrafts (almost used up) and credit cards (almost used up),so utterly dependent on him giving me money, hence his effective tactics of - "give me £100 now, as i will give you £300 later in the week (or whatever amounts) if you don't give me £100 now, whole £300 or more will go to other people"

Troube is, whatever money he gives, he bullies it back again.

It is my fault for giving in, and for not sorting this earier. A year ago I had some inheritance and should have run for it

In my defence I suppose I've spent 4 years of brainwashing. Looking back about 2.5 years ago I remember writing him note apologising for nor showing my love for him better. This to a man who ranted on at me for hours in the night during 1st pregnancy and when dd1 was baby about his feelings about relationship i had prior to him. And who went out most nights when dd1 little, and who spent whole weekends barricaded in his room taking drugs yet he turned my thinking round til I wasn't the one showing love!

Actually his abusive behaviour was worse in the past, but maybe he's achieved all he needs to.

need to get financial advice about repayments etc - hoping the first step is if ever get to speak to the person local wa recommend

Onelife, can you see yourself and DC's in a refuge for a short time before being allocated a place of your own and enjoying the start of your own life again, if this was suggested to you?

Also please dont think that your P's behaviour is better than it was in the past, when you consider what he has done and is still doing - invading your space, taking your money, threatening you, manipulating you, leaving you without money, making you feel unsafe, depriving you of sleep, preventing you from expressing opinions...I could go on.

These are all EXTREMELY abusive behaviours from a selfish and nasty man whose only interest is in himself.

Glad to hear he's still X Stercus - seeing the D in front of the P worried me.

Onelife - keep posting, marvellous people like MadameOvary can help you find a way through.