Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Hi Springfleurs I can identify with what you say. When I have things I need to say to him, then I have to be able to say them.

But its allowing giving him the power to abuse each face-to-face meeting if you lower your voice to suit him. Who does he think he is!!
Could you try just walking away and say you'll send him a note instead about whatever it was you needed to say? or if you know in advance he may muck you about, could you have it written down beforehand.

Is it better/easier to leave when they're in a good bit of the cycle or a bad bit?

I so almost started the 'this isn't working' conversation with H over the weekend. I don't really know why I didn't. He's been really nice to me for the last week or so - I know he's not changed; and I know that it wouldn't actually make any difference even if he has changed, because I can't stay in a relationship where I'm always looking for the next insult, or suspecting every single thing he does. I also can't forget the way he has treated me in the past (even though he tells me I have to forget it).

I thought it might be easier to leave when he's in a good patch, because my confidence might be high enough to do it. In a bad patch it might be easier to give reasons, but I'm not planning to try to make him understand what he's done to me, I just want him to understand that we can't stay together.

He does pure EA, no physical violence, not even any shouting; so I never see it coming. Can anyone who's actually left for those reasons - ie. not because he's got louder/violent etc tell me how they actually managed to get out?

Hi, I havent done it yet but I would imagine that it happens when you no longer care your needs, and your survival, are more important to you.
If you do talk to him will he listen to what you say and would it make a difference to the relationship?
Have to go to work now but hope someone responds for you. Best Wishes.

He will listen. He will tell me that he does love me and he does want to be with me (and that I've just insulted him by telling him that his treatment of me doesn't make me feel cared for). He'll then tell me that I have to forget what happened in the past and move on. He'll tell me he's changed - I'll tell him its not enough. He'll say he'll change more; I'll feel like a complete bitch for not wanting to give him the chance. He'll then tell me that its actually my fault for not being affectionate towards him, and I'll try to explain yet again that I don't like being physically affectionate with someone who treats me that way. He'll accuse me of withholding sex as punishment for lack of housework. And all will be back to the usual stalemate.

See, I hardly need to actually have the conversation!

You know what works for me? holding in my head a sort of template of how a decent, non-abusive man behaves. All of my friends are in good, equal relationships where they are respected and I constantly compared ex's behaviour to theirs and it really highlighted how bad he was.

I met ex's new girlfriend at the weekend. It was like looking at how I used to be. At first I thought I was jealous, seeing him look at her the way he used to look at me, but then I realized it was actually harder because I was looking at myself and the happy, loving person I was when I thought he was Mr Wonderful.

He has already left her twice saying he wanted to come back to me. It is all BS though. I remember now he did the same to me.

Now he is doing it again and I realise it's nothing to do with me, or love, or anything an emotionally normal person would do. I've had enough, I don't care anymore. I will always care for him (probably because of the Traumatic Bonding) but not enough to put his needs before mine, not this time.

I actually feel sorry for his girlfriend, in the space of a two hour visit he addressed her as "bitch" "fatso" and told her to "fuck off" all done in a very jokey way. But it made my heart sink. He will treat her just the same and there is nothing I can do about it.

Springfleurs, I think Janos's suggestion is good.

He's clearly getting a power trip from making you change your tone, and you don't want to give him the satisfaction.

My suggestion next time he pulls that stunt is-

a) Tell yourself- "He's power tripping, I'm being reasonable."

b) Tell him- "It's clear to me that you can't discuss this in person without having a manipulative tantrum. We'll finish this discussion over email/text."

or even more succinctly, if you feel yourself getting really emotionally wound up by him

"We can finish this discussion over email/text."

c) WALK AWAY. He'll hate that.

He'll call you names and try to get you to engage as you walk away, because you just stole back his power over you. It's like with toddlers. They have to have the tantrum until they understand the boundary has been drawn. Try not to let him see you grin from ear to ear whilst you metaphorically put him in time out.

It's OK to feel angry, btw. You've all put up with more than enough shit to feel as righteously angry as you choose. Obviously violence is not OK, but feeling really angry when someone has mistreated you as badly as these men have is actually a healthy response. It's a healing stage. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I've started being really sarcastic with my 33 year old toddler for some reason, growing in confidence maybe. Last time he started I said "Ok abuser" then gave him a bottle of juice and told him to throw it all over the floor like last time. I wouldn't recommend this though, I know how far my bloke will go but some men might turn dangerous if they feel shown up.
i can't wait till I'm earning a wage, I've got one year of uni left,let's see how much power he's got then!
The nice/ nasty cycle is really confusing isn't it. I think if any woman wants to leave, once your mind is made up, make your plans and wait for the next explosion. If you try and leave in the nice cycle you may feel less sure, simply because of the traumatic bonding process and the hope you might still have that he might not ever have kicked off again

dizietsma those are excellent suggestions. Tone is all important.

Junglist I went through the sarcastic phase too. You feel stronger because they aren't intimidating you but you are still engaging with them and enabling their behaviour, if you see what I mean. You sound like a strong person and from what you say I don't think it will be too long before you simply can't be bothered to engage any more.

Sometimes I can't be bothered, it depends what mood I'm in. When the kids are around I usually keep quiet, but when it's just us it's less scary. The problem is he's made me so angry inside, sometimes I feel like I could take him on and win (I won't though).
I will try disengaging completely next time, if I think he won't punish me later for it.

Mine is still trying to play mind games with me even though we are not together, he has been banging on about being friends but it will never happen. It was a real eye opener to realise that it is about him, not me, doesn't matter what I say or do, he will never change and his mindset is such that it's impossible to have a healthy relationship with him, and after what I have been through I will not settle for anything less.

We have friends staying with us at the moment, the way that my friend's DH treats her has really shocked me. He is so reasonable, helpful, pleasant, considerate, interested in her, involved with their dc's and probably totally normal!

I'm starting to realise how much hard work it is dealing with my H all the time. He behaves like a spoiled teen, refusing to get up in the morning so we're all downstairs ready to go out and he's still showering, sulking if he can't watch what he wants on tv, if someone's eaten the chocolate he likes in the box, if the radio isn't on his preferred channel etc etc.. He goes out of his way to make people change things or plans for him, even if they're trivial, it's the power I think. Normal grown adults just don't behave like this, do they?

Am moving on a stage with all of this, I can visualise us living separately now. I'm just really scared I think, of being alone and never meeting anyone else who won't turn out like H.

Waiting for my Lundy book, think it's delayed in the Easter post, hurry up!!

I can honestly say that the whole accusing me of shouting, or being unreasonable, when I AM being reasonable was only something my H did... THAT IS THE MOST FRUSTRATING form of control.. I did not realize that it was control until reading these posts. Of course, it all makes sense!

I always just say as quietly and calmly as possible... " I am not yelling.... " "Why would you say that?"

He never has an answer.

And sickofthisrain...no it's not normal behaviour!!!

This is really interesting. Had an argument with my P(soon to be ex) last night. He'd taken the DCs to fun park and as I intended to go again the next day I innocently asked 'What did you did with those park pases?'. 'He replied 'Sold them - what do you think I've done with them. I haven't stolen them - they don't belong to you'! I said 'I'm only asking so I don't forget to ask you for them later'. He said 'I'll get them later'. I left the room and went upstairs. He followed me up, switched the TV off and threw the passes at me and then came right up to me, nose to nose, and started having a go at me. He was very abusive, calling me a fat bitch and also threatened me. I asked him a couple of times to 'get out of my face' but he wouldn't and I called him an arsehole.
This morning he said he couldn't believe how I had acted and what sewarage came from my mouth! In a round about way I kind of apologised saying it was only because I was angry!
He told me he was going to the bank today to open a sole account so that his wages could be paid into it, and he also arranged for the house to be valued tomorrow.
Turns out that he was lying about the bank account - but this gave me the kick up the backside I needed and I have today sorted out my own bank account, frozen the joint one, arranged an appointment with a solicitor and phoned the Child Tax Credit line. For the first time today I have told people (other than MNer's) that it is over - this includes my parents who I have never ever told anything about how unhappy I am.
I'm really scared - have no idea how I'll afford to live on my PT salary, and really worried about my dc's (13 yo saying he doesn't want to leave this house etc). Feel like shit but really, really hoping that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Bowbelles, that is fantastic and you should be very, very proud of yourself. You are recognizing that you need to treat yourself with kindness and respect and it has spurred you on.
It's okay to be scared, believe me, it's a very brave thing to do and it's the first step in taking back control. You will have your OWN money in your OWN bank account. Little by little more will follow, you'll see

Thanks so much for your kind words MO.
I don't think I would have done it if it wasn't for MN. It's so encouraging to read of all these happy endings.

Good for you Bowbelles!! , I like what madameovary said about 'taking back control'.. it has a very poetic sound to it.

Embrase the fear, and know that it will make you stronger, and give you more power.

If you think about it, we are all being emotionally / verbally / some of us physically beaten down each and every day.. and we still manage to survive, and continue on somehow. CAN YOU IMAGINE how much more we would accomplish if we were no longer put down, cursed at, yelled at, insulted, spat at, be made to feel worthless, stupid, fat, useless.....etc; etc;???

We could rule the world...Just a thought

Psych101 what you say is very true. The longer you are away from them the more you feel you can breathe. It's amazing.

It's like being locked up in a dark cell for years, then one day being released into bright sunlight...your eyes need to adjust, you need time to realize that you have space and freedom and no walls or bars anymore.

Slowly you see how beautiful the world is. You decide to take a few steps. It's quite scary so that's all you can manage at first, but afterwards there is a lovely feeling of hope and then potential

Abusers are like carbon monoxide, if you get away from them and into the fresh air, you almost instantly start to feel better.

Ditzzy,
You asked how someone in an EA relationship got out. Well I'll tell you this... I was on/off w/ a guy for 5 years. He was my "true" first love. The first 2 years were great. The last 3 were awful. He was VERY shady...was always sneaking around. Kind of a player. He'd get texts/emails/calls from other girls all the time. It got to a point where I was paranoid and couldn't trust him. He'd always manage to turn the tables on me and put me down...saying I was "psycho" b/c I didn't trust him.

I could tell stories upon stories of how he destroyed my trust and put me down. but time and time again he'd say he was wrong, wanted to change, and wanted me back (when he could tell I was about to leave him--or at least attempt to). So many times I'd try to leave but he'd somehow manage to rope me back in.

Many times I'd stupidly take him back... b/c when things were good... oh man were they good. But when things were bad, oh man were they bad! So, I finally got out and I'm not sure it was the best way.

I knew that as long as I didn't have someone else to run to (ie a boyfriend/guy to date) I'd have no chance of being completely broken up and free from him. I knew that he'd somehow find a way to rope me back in. He'd say all the right things. But while I was still dating him, I'd keep my eyes open for someone else I could see myself dating. Until one day I met this great guy and just ran as fast as I could to this other guy. My ex didn't try winning me back, changing, contacting me...nothing. I knew all along that's how it would have to be b/c as long as I was trying to break up w/ him and have no one to protect me... I was a goner.

It's been 5 months since I've been completely free of him. I stupidly texted him to see how he was doing a week ago. Since then I've had thoughts of taking him back, wondering "what if" I didn't make the right decision, etc. But after reading a lot of posts on here, I'm realizing he can't change over night. And I'm better off now.

Fragile have you read the Lundy Bancroft book? That will also help to convince you. These men are like drug dealers who get us hooked on them and the drama, and the Traumatic Bonding ensures we think it's real, but it isn't.
My ex was my first true love too, I called him the love of my life, and felt strongly enough to have a baby with him. Now I understand how crappy and screwed up it was.
Stay strong and stay safe. You know you are better off without him.

Thanks for you replies.

Unfortunately corresponding by email is not really practical. He sees a lot of the dc (comes round every day).

Dizietsma - some great tips there. I do try, I really do but somehow just always seem to end up being dragged back in. He usually says something SO provocative and horrible that i feel that I just HAVE to defend myself.

"He'll call you names and try to get you to engage as you walk away, because you just stole back his power over you. It's like with toddlers. They have to have the tantrum until they understand the boundary has been drawn. Try not to let him see you grin from ear to ear whilst you metaphorically put him in time out."

I will try to think of this though. Instead of feeling defeated if I don't defend myself. I will try to think that I don't have to defend myself against dd (2) when she has a tantrum so why should I have to against this giant toddler either.

Unfortunately things seem to get worse before they get better. We only split recently and he "confessed" in the last day or two that he had been with approx 50 + other partners while we were together. I feel totally numb. I knew he had been unfaithful but not to that extent.

This feels like it will never end. I have to go and get myself checked out now. I was checked about two years ago and was fine. I feel like crap today and very frightened for my health. Just feel sick and numb inside.

Springfleurs are you able to restrict his access? Coming round every day is waaay too much. You need the time and space by yourself to heal. No wonder you feel numb. Please keep posting, we are here for you.

Springfleurs, so sorry to hear this, it does seem like there's no end to the damage these men cause and being unfaithful all seems to be part of it.

Excellent advice from everyone on not engaging and getting drawn back in, something I still struggle with. I've now had to resort to barring ex's number from the landline, changing my sim and making arrangements for contact via letter. It doesn't stop him still feeling the need to be abusive but for some reason when it's written I find it much easier to ignore. I've learnt the painful way that he always wins, I just can't retaliate on his level and always come off so much worse.

"I will try to think that I don't have to defend myself against dd (2) when she has a tantrum so why should I have to against this giant toddler either."

Exactly. He's just trying to get his way, get his power, and he'll do or say anything to get it. You might even want to visualise him in a nappy with a drooly toddler chin as he raves and rants. Just remember that the content of what he says to you is irrelevant, he just wants to get a rise out of you, a reaction.

"confessed" in the last day or two that he had been with approx 50 + other partners while we were together."

This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that is said for the reaction, to hurt you. I don't know about your situation and who knows, maybe he really was a massive man whore, but I would take everything with a pinch of salt. I'd still get tested though, just for peace of mind.

I agree with MO, daily access is far too much. You need space to get your head together and separate emotionally. Sounds to me like you're currently gettting the worst of both worlds, it's allowing him to continue to control you. Get some advice from a solicitor on arranging access.

I'd suggest that you arrange a friend/family member who you can trust to be on your side to be there whenever he visits. It'll give you strength to stand up to him and an outside perspective on his appalling behaviour.

He told me that if I try to control his access to his children that my "world will end". He won't clarify what he means by that though, just keeps repeating it.

I was hoping I would be free of him by having thrown him out but I am not at all. I knew it would be like this though.