Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Not ridiculous at all sickofthisrain, that is awful

It's right to report him. Take his name, reg. no and list the roadrage incidences and report him to the police. You will save someone's life.

How can you put up with this crap ladies? It's psycho behaviour.

Walk a mile in our shoes kidowner, then comment.

Kidowner, I see why you'd think that, but please understand these men don't come into our lives wearing a t shirt with "I am a potential abuser" on it. It happens very gradually over a long time, can be very subtle, is emotionally and physically draining and can be a total nightmare to extricate yourself from, especially with dc's involved.

I'd love to report H for his driving. Really I would. But if it were to impact his job through any criminal record, or inability to drive, it would be detrimental to all of us. So realistically I can't, I just have to keep insisting I drive us wherever possible, and put up with the ensuing sulks.

A poster called ridiculouscrush summed it up for me pretty effectively in a similar thread:

..of course he was lovely when you first met him, everyone is lovely when you first meet them. nobody walks up to strangers and gives them a card saying:

"Hi, I'm George. I'm a complete cunt. I will wine you and dine you, and treat you like a princess for 3 months, but when you are 5 months pregnant with our child, I will get drunk, and we will have a row about house keys that will result in me breaking your nose. I will cry and apologise the next day, but realistically, since I pressured you into quitting your job, I know you are completely financially reliant on me and can't afford to leave - I just want you to keep fucking me so I don't have to go to the effort of finding someone who will. Fancy a drink?"

Sorry.

Madameovary is right, but it is so horrible to know you are suffering such awful awful crap and we are all powerless really to help you.

The frustration stems from that really.

What is good to know is there is light at the end of the tunnel for those who do manage to extricate themselves.

There has to be hope. Without it life's not worth living.

I split with my dh a few months ago, but wonder if reading this thread he too was an emotional abuser.
He hated all of my family (still does)and insults them about their appearance, station in life to me constantly.
Same with all my friends.
Would tell me I was beautiful, but on the other hand would always put me down almost daily about my boring dress sense, lack of ambition. If I got upset he would tell me "but I tell you you're beautiful".
Would warn people in advance when socialising that I was shy and tell me afterwards that everyone was looking at me because I "had a spot" or some other nonsense. He would tell me afterwards what people thought of me "isn't she quiet" etc This would make me even more of a nervous wreck for the next time - I started to make excuses then not to go.
he was always trying to make me feel that there was something wrong with me mentally. Special occasions he which weren't centred around him were always spoilt by his moodiness, so that I used to dread them. Only when I cried or lost my temper he would make me feel like I had overreacted and he would be all smiles again.

I was pregnant when we split up; he left me alone with the dc for weeks at a time; making and breaking arrangements as a way of controlling I think as he knew he was wrecking my plans.
He said he wanted to be at the baby's birth but then refused to mention it and was uncontactable on the day before, so I went through the birth alone.
I told him I was afraid of the birth alone etc and he said I was "wallowing in self pity".
He makes small gestures like buys theatre tickets, so that when I challenge him he will say "but I bought you this".
Since the baby has been born he has again been trying to make me break off contact with my family, so I'm afraid I pretended that I had, just to silence him on the subject.
I don't know why he is still doing it now we have split up. I think he even has a new girlfriend.
I have finally decided to stop all contact with him as (I know the above doesn't sound like much exactly) because I fear I am beginning to have some sort of breakdown.
The final straw this week came after a week of little sleep (baby is a few weeks old) he told me he wouldn't be coming to collect the children at all or to help this week, and gave some nonsense excuse about how it was actually going to be for my benefit.
He had offered to shop for me and I said I would do this myself as he wasn't coming but would need the return of the grocery money. He then said he would do it and to send him a list and if I didn't he would send it by post and I'd have to wait for it to arrive first.
I've told him to apply for formal contact now so that I don't have to deal with him.
Sorry that was so long and probably hard to follow. I hope you don't mind my adding.

OMG.. Madamovary, I loved that quote... that sums it up perfectly! I've said this before... good days & bad days, I'm on bad days now.. He was so kind before I became pregnant, then all of a sudden, I couldn't do the work I was in before (cocktail waitress in nightclub) while pregnant, so became completely dependent on him. I remember asking him for money to buy milk, and I got attitude. That was the beginning of all the problems.

Now, I am pushing 40, and I have a mind of my own, and he isn't used to it. He admitted to me that he is mourning the old me. I cannot tell him that I want to take the kids somewhere, unless it was his idea first. He accuses me of being DEMANDING.??

For Kidowner, and some of our other friends... (we know you mean well) just a little insight on how I compare my relationship and leaving to...

1. waking up in the morning is always a bad start to the day, misery overwhelms you.

1. you try to make a 'hot' breakfast, and be cheery with the children but H. squashes you with his words, or tone of voice

1. you try to continue on your day, but you've already been beaten emotionally to the point your stomach hurts, and it's only 9:00 am. Thank God he went to work.

1. You think about leaving, but with two children your only option is a shelter.. which would be fine, but it is the unknown, and you have a house, figure skating lessons, best friends right next door.....

1. Leaving to me would be as frightening as jumping out of an airplane with a parachute. ( and I have great fear of heights )

1. Some of us have had a LIFETIME of abuse, from parents, to ex-partners, and we are worn down

1. My relationship compares with that song from Tragically Hip -- COMFORTABLY NUMB.

I hope that explains a little about how some of us feel, I know it's how I feel, and pretty sure there are more of us who feel exactly like this.. I think I should publish this list..

Hi closetgeorgia,

YES, totally EMOTIONAL ABUSE. to a Tee.
Exactly what I've gone through, and is going through.

Good riddance to him.

The more i read the more releived i am that im finally rid of my bully ex.I could never go back to living with those put downs and frustrating rows where i had to fight for basic respect.
Like the playground bully he leaves me alone now he knows he cant bully me anymore.

Someone has started a thread about her H sulking if he didnt have sex, ive found this to be true, mine would try even if i clearly didnt want to, would grope me and make foul remarks, sulk and whine and happily have sex with me when he knew i didnt want to.
Very rareley did i ever get anything out of it.
Nothing to do with sex drive but personal victory.
Well done to everyone whos got away from these idiots.

Hi, Have just caught up with reading all of this thread since I was last on.

My Lundy Bancroft book 'Why does he do that' came last week.
I hide it in my big bag and take it everywhere with me so I can read it when I get the chance. Its 400 odd pages long and I'm on page 219. Its bloody good! My dh is in there and I am being re-educated as to what is really going on with him.

When I first posted here I was in such a state. How I didnt have a heart attack with the stress I dont know. Depressed; drowning; afraid; one more year to add onto the previous horrible yrs - would I ever be free.
As I work my way through the pages I am noticing something strange happening to me. My heart has stopped pounding, my body is calmed and my head is de-fogging with every bit I recognise in this book. I wish I had the right words but it feels like I recognise now that its not love he has for me and what love I had left for him has just left my body. My head feels like ice-cold steel. Clear and hard. I am expecting good things to come from reading this.

Can I ask while I'm here about deleting the Mumsnet history on my computer ?

I go into history and right click on Mumsnet to delete it. Is that enough to cover myself or is there a record of me visiting this site somewhere else that he might be able to see it. I would hate him to find out that I am getting 'educated'!

Size6feet how wonderful that the book is helping you, it is helping me too in exactly the way you describe. De-fogging is a perfect description.
I too have reached that perfect point of clarity where I can see that it was all about control and manipulation for him, not love, where I can look at the memories with emotional distance and not sorrow.
This from a point of being so completely mired in it that I saw him as the love of my life and gave him endless chances, which fortunately became proof of the real him as he let me down over and over again.
If any of you remember reading an AIBU thread about a EA P not consulting his partner about his 8 y/o daughter attending the birth - that was me.
I have said I will look into access arrangements but I think I will just see what he does, whether he thinks this is just another drama I will back down from. He has never contributed anything to DD's upbringing, never taken her out, didn't even buy her a birthday present.

Clearly thought it was enough to park his fat ass on my sofa and grace us with his presence for a couple of hours.

Up until very recently I would have admitted to missing him, now I'm beyond that.

One thing is true ladies, once you come out the other side, you will NEVER regret leaving, the sense of reclaiming your head space, regaining ownership of your life. It's so powerful that it can never be taken away. But no- one can tell you when to go, no one can open your eyes but you.
I'm so glad Janos started this thread

Am going to order that book now !

Size6feet, you might also want to delete cookies and temporary Internet files (tools-> Internet options ) and if your pc autocompletes entries iyswim, change that option too.

Kidowner, I appreciate you are just trying to be supportive. If you are in a position to do so, Reading the Lundy Bancroft book will give you an insight into why these relationships are so complex, damaging, and difficult to leave. Psych101's list also tells it like it is from the abused persons point of view.

Actually, reading what you have been through on this thread has been a real eye opener for some of us who have never exp abuse in childhood or with a partner.

My father has actually brought my mum breakfast in bed for the last 40 yrs of their marriage, If I visit I get the same treatment.

My dad said a good marriage is being thoughtful to others. He would do anything to help others, and is a gentleman on the roads.

It took me a while to meet a man that would live up to my expectations, (the only expectations I know) but I did (late 20s) and he is a good man (no breakfast in bed but helps with dc so I can snooze!)

So you see, I am absolutely appalled you are treated so badly. As you say, these men don't come with it written on their t shirts, but may be there are some warning signs?

Roadrage, abused ex ps etc?

Kidowner I appreciate you want to help but TBH you are just making me feel like an idiot
Yes of course there are warning signs but by then its usually too late, these men can be extremely manipulative and charming, you DO fall in love with them/get trapped by them, and by then it is very very hard to get out - I am a well educated professional with balls of steel in work and a scary reputation, but it has taken me 10 years to get away and even now he can still tug at my heart strings!
I wonder how many of us had abusive/EA fathers or mothers and that is our normal blue print?? Not all of us were lucky enough to have idyllic upbringings as a blueprint for normality.........I am determined that the cycle breaks now and my daughters will NOT make the same bad choices I did!!
If you are truly interested/curious/want to offer advice I do reccomend the Bancroft book it is an eye opener (I am another one who hides it in my bag and reads it when I again, I have read it through and now pick and choose bits when I need help ), or just google EA there is lots on the net!

Psych101, I could have written your list but the one that resonated with me most was
"you try to make a 'hot' breakfast, and be cheery with the children but H. squashes you with his words, or tone of voice".

That was what my whole life with ex-H was like. He had a permanent sneer on his face and used to bark at me. I don't think he EVER said a kind word to me (at least not after the first 3 months) and he always said it was because I wasn't kind to him. As a naturally warm and loving person I can now see how manipulative he was.

I'm waiting for counselling but have ordered Lundy Bancroft in the meantime. Being in a healthy relationship now is wonderful for me but still hard because the way I'm being treated (with the utmost respect, love and kindness) is not what I'm used and I can still get very fearful and anxious. I used to think there was something wrong with me but this wonderful thread has helped me understand that I am fine.

macdoodle I wonder that too. My father was emotionally abusive and disowned me. ex was definitely a father figure (shudder)

No EA in my background at whatsoever. Parents happily married for almost forty years, have only had lovely relationships and been treated with respect until the last year of this one. My dad was always a really impatient driver, as is BIL and FIL, so I've been used to that aspect I guess, although H is in a different league.

Had my counselling appointment which really helped - I just talked and tried to describe what's been going on as much as possible without mentioning EA. It didn't take the counsellor long to mention EA herself - now I know for sure I'm not going mad. It is currently in a very subtle form, but that's bad enough to live with.

FWIW I never thought I'd be tolerating this kind of behaviour from anyone, especially the man I married. It's certainly not because I'm used to being treated this way. It is very hard to let go of your dream of raising a family together, no matter what they are putting you through. Unless you're in the situation, it must be really hard to imagine but it's very difficult to just walk away from a 10 year marriage which has for the most part, been good. Have also ordered the book everyone has recommended.

There is a brilliant EA thread on AIBU which I hadn't seen until last night - not sure how to link to it, will try -
mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/734569-To-ask-DH-to-bring-a-couple-of-bits-of

Hope that works..

My father was very EA to my mother (but not to us children). We grew up knowing she wasn't as clever as him, wasn't as good as him, and wouldn't be anything if he wasn't there. She did all the housework, all the childcare, all the cooking etc WHILE running the business they set up together. I now think she's an absolute genius.

Incidently she knows that he treats her badly but thinks she deserves it. When things got really bad between them a couple of years ago I accidently lost my temper with my father and told him that (d)H was abusing me and it was all his fault. That shook him up a bit. Obviously I retracted the statement because noone makes my H behave the way he does except himself; and noone makes me stay and accept it except me, but his behaviour towards my mother improved markedly at that point (and still hasn't gone back to as bad as it was).

To kidowner - like mcdoodle, I'm a highly qualified professional woman, at work noone would dare cross me; at home I'm a doormat! You'd really have thought that after I'd been rushed to hospital three times in as many weeks H might have been concerned about me? No, he was concerned about himself, how terrible it was that his (then) girlfriend was so ill, and how was he going to cope? So I pulled myself together and helped him through my illness. Including my heart surgery where he droppped me off outside the hospital grounds because he couldn't be arsed to look for a parking space, and turned up for half an hour visiting times complaining about how terrible it was that he had to go home alone that evening. All this started within the first six months of our proper relationship (we had been friends for three years prior) and yet I still didn't take it as a warning sign!!!

Ten years on it looks pretty obvious really - I should have legged it then, instead of allowing him to check up on me every hour to make sure I wasn't back in hospital, agreeing not to stay at friends houses overnight in case I was ill.... it was all just because he cared don't you know?

Sorry rant over.

Ladies, I will definitely get that book Lundy Bancroft..

Kidowner, we know you are very sincere, and we appreciate your honesty and comments. It's good for you to understand this, as you may be able to help a friend down the road sometime..

Sparkybint, I know the 'sneer' well. I get it everyday.

I am so glad that you all got to see the list that I wrote, because it is truly truly, true. It's a bad day today, and hopefully, he will be leaving soon. He seems to want to leave now, because I stand up for myself now, after 10 years of EA, along with Verbal abuse, and you name it.

Yes, years of disfunction growing up at home, loving home, yet very disfunctional, My dad was manic depressant, so he was great some days, yet very mean and nasty other days. I don't know why my mom didn't leave... I guess she felt sorry for him. From there, I went directly to a severely physical, and EA, and VA relationship for 10 years, and he left me too, once I stood up for myself.

Then right into this relationship and marriage, but now with 2 children.

It's almost over, I can feel it. And then once it is, I will definitely go into counselling so that I break the pattern of EA relationships.

I just need to get over the guilt.