Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Onlygotonelife - that sounds like amazing progress!! sorry for the x-post, your triumph deserves more space than my whinge.

Gone is gone, half hearted or not.

Ditzzy - thanks. It's taken me a long while, and I'm [lanning on staying strong. I've arranged to go away for a few days as well, to get some distance from him and actually have some nice company!

I've tried telling him his behaviour is abusive,but he tuts and sighs,and sometimes says anyone would belike that having to deal with me.

What helped me push for this (though final straw was how awful he was about wanting cigarette money in the middle of the night) was the fact that he maddens me so much,my behaviour is worsening. I chucked a some dregsof a cup of water over him the other day when I found out he'd stolen money off my bank card. We argue in front of the kids, and I don't want them to be damaged by our toxic relationship, or think our interactions are normal

So much of this sounds familiar to me. I have been with my P for 23 years and we have 3 ds (15/13/11). He constantly puts be down, belittles me, humiliates me (and to dc). I haven't been out with him socially for about 3 years as I've had enough. I only go out with him to family 'dos' and still feel sick every time something is arranged.
I am a private person and never tell friends/family what goes on between us. Last week in an email I told an old school friend that I was feeling a bit down. She has only met my P on 3 or 4 occasions and I was amazed when she told me that she had noticed how he always belittles and embarasses me. This must be so obvious to people I am close to.
Yesterday after an argument about our different parenting skills he told me I was never to speak to him like that - when I asked "or what" he replied "I'll do time for you, you f*ing horrible c**t".
I really can't take any more and now want out but don't know where to start. Has anyone been in this situation and can advise? Do we put house on market (he wants to wait because of current climate - I don't care if we lose money and think it's delaying tactics anyway) or do I find out about benefits? Not sure if I earn enough to get a mortgage, will I get any financial help?
So many of us in this horrible situation. Best wishes everyone

Welcome Bowbelles. For a first step please call Womens Aid. And start training yourself to stop thinking of his needs. Only you and your DCs matter. Many people here including have found the Lundy Bancroft book "why does he do that" invaluable in getting their heads round the fact that they are in an abusive relationship and how to deal with it.

Meant to add, deciding to leave is a big step on it's own so good for you. There is a recognized action plan for leaving abusive relationships which involves having a bag packed and organising a seperate, secret bank account to put money into, also keeping important documents like birth certificates and bank statements in a safe, secure place. There is more, just wanted you to know that there are systems in place designed to help those in your situation. Womens Aid are the best people to start with so please call your local office as soon as you are able.

I am very proud of you, onlygotonelife!!!

Good for you, , your strength is very encouraging, you must keep us updated...

Bowbelles, dont worry re financial issues.This was my main concern as my ex bully earned well and i never had access to any finances whatsoever.
Your H will be obliged to pay maintenance and his half of the mortgage,,for me this just leaves a small shortfall on the mortgage.
Mine used to scream that the house was being sold, and i stupidly beleived him, it was very stressfull, but everythings worked out fine.
Hes now in rented accomadation,dont even consider moving out of the family home.

I spoke to my ex bully last night who pitifully said that IF he had ever said anything to upset me he was sorry.I pointed out that in fact hed said plenty to upset me to which he replied with those famous words we all know so well " yes but ",,then some attempt to justify it. Bollocks.

I kicked mine out over a year ago but occasionally still find myself putting his needs before mine, ie, at one point i told him he neednt pay maintenace as i knew he was struggling ! There i am considering his needs when he has swizzed me out of thousands ! No more !

To whoever asked about being freinds, ive tried this and they continue to abuse and manipulate, i dont think its possible. Ive spoken to my counseller about this, as ive wanted to stay freinds.

She made some good points, one being that we were never freinds in the first place ( shes right , he doesnt abuse his freinds ) he hasnt been respectfull to me while we were married so hes not going to start now,,and that i would not for one minuite put up with similar abuse from female freinds and still spend time with them.
Theres only one answer and thats to stay away.

Good luck to everyone whos putting up with this crap.

Bowbelles, just wanted to add, that if your working you,ll get working tax credits, and if not you,ll get other benefits and help with the mortgage and council tax ect.
Our income has dropped dramaticly but i manage just fine , honestly.
When i kicked mine out he cancelled every single outgoing on this house, the mortgage, the phone line , gas electric, everything. I was a complete wreck and totally clueless as he had always dealt with all the bills.I didnt even know who the gas and electric were with!

I have children of a similar age to yours, if your not working you,ll get help with the council tax, the dwp will pay the interest on your mortgage, free school meals and of course maintenace. You will NOT be homeless or starving.

He cannot insist on a house sale so dont even consider it.If theres anything you want to know just ask, i know how daunting it is. Good luck.

Bowbelles, please could I ask that you compile a dossier of what he's said and done to you (plus dates if you can)and give it the police, close friend or family so that there is a record?

I don't want to be alarmist but you have to take care and if any thing happens to you you'll have evidence.

Thanks so much everyone for your advice.
Hopefull - it's me who wants to sell up. I don't think that anyone can move on until we separate. The other day he agreed with me that we are going in different directions and that we should sell up etc. and asked me for details of an account we have so that he could take his (endowment policy) money out to use as a deposit on another house. I think he was expecting me to protest but when I didn't he changed his mind and said we'd both be better off financially if we waited for the market to pick up a bit. I'm not bothered about losing money on he house and just want out but I think that he thinks by delaying I might change my mind.
I wish I was strong enough to start telling people that we are splitting up - then I would stick to it. I want to get things moving before I worry my family.
MadameOvary - Am I actually being emotionally abused? I'm not sure? I would feel a bit of a fraud contacting Womens Aid.
Thanks everyone - I feel better just getting it off my chest.

Thanks kidowner - I have typed up a detailed account of something that happened over the weekend as I am not very good at remembering things. I thought it might be useful if I go to a solicitor. Thanks for your advice I will start doing that.

Have to go offline now - will pop back later

I'm so excited for you that you are doing something to change your situation. From your posting it is clear you have been severely emotionally abused for years and years.

You are not a fraud to use Women's aid!

Your next strength will come from letting others know, you'll be surprised how understanding people will be.

You'll wonder why you didn't do this earlier.

We're all here for you too

Good luck

Bowbelles, that is great news. Stay strong and keep us posted.

I have my counselling appointment this week, and can't wait. I so need to talk to someone who doesn't know him and have them (hopefully) reassure me I'm not going mad. Tried to talk to H last night (only chance we've had this weekend) but he turned his back to me in bed and refused to engage in conversation. If pushed, he gave a one word answer to what I was saying. Have told him he is in danger of losing his family unless things change quickly, and probably even then.

Just wondering this morning, do many of you have h's/p's who are reckless or aggressive drivers? I think for H, that is the main other area where this side of him comes out. He is horrendous, so impatient that he tried to get me to overtake a long line of traffic waiting behind a stopped bus this weekend. He was getting so agitated, and it would have been a crazy and dangerous thing to do just to save a few seconds. I totally refused. (I'd insisted on driving us, as his driving makes me shake with stress.) I just wondered if the road rage aspect was somehow a part of this condition..

There was another thread about this... it's a warning sign, women should take heed whenever their ps exhibit violent/dangerous tendencies. Trust your instincts, your survival depends on it.

Women who have very low self esteem and low self worth do not trust their instincts, or rather, make excuses for their p's behaviour.

Women and children are killed every day in domestic situations in HUGE numbers.

People talk about the rare incident of a serial murderer on the loose and are frightened as a result to go out at night.

Yet the real danger is in their own homes where hardly anyone talks about it!

1 in 4 women have experienced some form of abuse so you are not alone and so don't feel you are or cover up what's happening.

Mine was a awful driver. He would take unnecesery risks and intimidate other drivers, over the years there were countless near misses and he would often brag about it.Im not convinced he drove like this when he was on his own, i think a lot of it was for my benefit.

Mine loved to accelerate fast despite our obvious discomfort. and i mean fast. How he has not killed someone i do not know. He would drive at 120 on the motorway and ignore my objections. I actually think he thought he was impressing me with his super fast dickhead driving.

Something else mine did a lot, when we got in the car, he would frequently dump a load of crap onto my lap, for me to " hold " for the journey , his phone, money, cigerattes ect. I would do so subconsciously for a while then get pissed of and shove them into the dashboard.

Hope the counseling goes well, my first one was horrendous but ive found a really good one.

Bowbelles, please be in no doubt you are suffering emotional abuse and don't hesitate to call Womens Aid. Your feelings ARE valid and they will be a huge help.

My ex would leave me and my daughter out of family outings, if he and I had had a row. I remember once we were all supposed to be going out and he started about something ridiculous and told me he wasn't going anywhere with me, then walked out the door with ds leaving dd (2) holding all her things she wanted to take with her and crying her eyes out. I realised then that he was going to eventually treat her badly too because she was female. He said in front of her that "you can't be nice to women because they walk all over you if you are". He always told me he could never praise me for anything because I would become "arrogant" if he did.

Bowbelles, I completely stopped going out with my ex and wouldn't ever go to his parents house, he was always worse there. I can't even bring myself to speak to his parents or my SIL who were friends anymore because of home many times he told me they were laughing at me and didn't like me.

He would tell me that if he expressed a concern about safety issues then it must be discussed at length and I must tell him the steps I would be taking to ensure that these things did not happen again. A safety issue could be stir frying on the front gas ring instead of the back, a box being left by one of the dc on a radiator, if I took the dc to my parents house, what steps I would take to ensure they were not abducted from the garden.

I needed to explain all my parenting decisions to him, I never would and it drove him to a frenzy. eg I gave ds some sweets one evening a couple of hours before bed and he for one reason or another had a big tantrum and wouldn't settle (he has ASD). I was told to explain my reasoning for giving the sweets and give the steps I would take to ensure that this behaviour from DS would not occur again. He said I was a belligerant, sulky teenager because I refused to accept I had done anything wrong and wouldnt agree with him.

He was and is f*cking horrible, but even now I still have what if moments when I wonder if it was me and I was being unreasonable. He used to say he wanted a "partner" and I would never be that because I was too immature. I know this was because I would not allow myself to be controlled by him.

Hi Everyone

I left my emotionally/verbally abusive H just over a fortnight ago. I have namechanged as I posted some threads on MN and revealed a lot of personal information and don't want to be identified by any of H's allies or family members.

This is such a valuable thread and resource for all of us to use. Reading through everyone's stories there are so many patterns that apply to my situation, things I hadn't even thought about until now.

The roadrage thing is also very interesting. My H is to be brought to court in a few weeks charged with dangerous driving and causing an accident by braking hard in front of someone. Naturally this is my fault ( I was not in the car) because we had had a colossal row the night before.

So glad to be away but of course I now have an abusive ex to deal with and the absolutely vile things he says, but at least I don't have to live with him.

Good luck to all of you. I found the Lundy Bancroft book to be my saviour too, plus keeping a diary as I seemed to forget very quickly after an incident. Due to being conditioned I suppose.

This is also a useful article - just about everything applies to me anyway. Sorry cannot do links. www.geocities.com/wellesley/commons/1654/behaviors.html

Good link, the work issues are very true for me, mine was professional with a very responsible job yet constantly bleated about being victimised at work.I am quite certain that most people see him as a snide.

He hated every boss he ever had and took such interest in their lives that he actually kept diarys about them.In actual fact he hated them because they were better than him and he had to constantly snipe about them to make himself feel better.
He complained officially about every one of them, but only after he had left, and after he had spent years brownnosing them.

He cannot assert himself at work so regularly attempted to set people against each other and would often gleefully comment that " i think so and so is going to say something about the way boss is treating me, shes really angry about it".
He thrived on pity and would even go as far to come home whining that a woman in the shop was giving him " dirty looks ".

Clearly he learned this from his idiot mother who only ever wants to hear about the negative stuff and will pick and pick until you : reward : her with something suitably negative.Perhaps thats the only way she ever engaged him, listening to crap.

Regarding illness, i was once very poorly and was vomiting. He was quite nice and comforted me and brought tablets, drinks ect.
That night he was groping me in his usual nasty way, and when i objected he actually said that he had gone to all the effort in being nice to me while i was ill,,,and what exactly was he going to get back for it ?
Nasty agressive little prick that he was.

Oh and if i was ill he was always coming down with something, whinge whinge whinge.

Dont know about others but i have 2 images of him, one as being a calculating nasty little shit,,,and the other being a lost hopeless little boy with a fragile little boy ego.

Not sure if this is common, but phone calls were also a problem. Mine is a busy house so i would usually take the phone upstairs to talk in peace.
Within minuites bully would apear with the pretext of bringing a cup of tea and then proceed to jib in with stupid unimportant comments ie "Who is it ? did you tell her about such a thing ? " .
Stupidly i would feel mean for leaving him out of the conversation so would often end up relaying crap stuff to my freinds who quite frankly werent interested, and it would end up being a 3 way conversation .

My dcs do not interupt me when im on the phone unles theyre on fire, but this idiot couldnt help himself.

Also a ridiculous amount of phone calls during the day " just to see if im alright , love you , love you ".
Wasnt to see if i was alright, because if ever i wasnt he couldnt get off the phone fast enough.Was to have a little ego boost of his wife saying i love you.

Even better if i was with freinds he would double his phone calls and insist on having ridiculous conversations about where we should go on our holidays , or should we paint the kitchen, and if so what colour?

Also personal hygeine was lacking and he often had to be told to have a shower, brush hs teeth.

Hopeful My P is also like that - always wanting to know who was on the phone and what they wanted. My parents often just phone to say Hi and that seems odd to him, that they didn't phone for any particular reason.
Your H sounds like mine in that he is always attention seeking and gets jealous if he feels left out. I have 3 dc's and my P needs much more attention. He is always so loud as if we don't know he's around unless he makes a noise.
He came home late from work last night and acted as if everyone was fine then went upstairs and watched TV in bed. He called the ds's up to watch a funny dvd with him (I guess this was so that I was left alone, or to make me feel that they wanted to be with him) but it suited me fine.
Agree about road rage too - any sign of traffic was my fault and he starts punching the steering wheel and swearing as if that would make the traffic suddenly disappear - what a Dick!
Digitalis Well Done! You are very brave - all the best to you.
Big hus to everyone x

Yes, Hopeful, mine was like that, liked nothing better than to know who was on the phone, also what they said and if I had talked about him.

On the road rage front, only two incidents in four years but they were memorable. On the morning he was driving me quite a distance, he took offence to me not sharing a friends secret and went into a mood, verbally abusing me all the way there and driving way too fast. When I said he was breaking the speed limit he said

"F**k off, I'm breaking the speed limit to be rid of you quicker"

And then he threatened to dump me in the nearest layby if I didnt shut up. When we got to where we were going he dumped all my stuff and walked away.

True to form, the texts and apologies started next morning, but he still tried to make me feel bad by saying I had just let him go, as if I had hurt him in some way.

In the other one a driver made a wrong move and tried to make out it was his fault. He would have happily got into a screaming match but I told him to forget it as I didnt want it to escalate. He had a go at me for not backing him up, as if I should have sat beside him and hurled abuse - very mature.

I have that with the phone too, with calls or messages. A barrage of "who is it?" and "have you told them.." yet when he is on the phone I am shushed if I make the tiniest noise in the background. If I've seen his parents he always wants to know what I've talked to them about.

It's interesting that the roadrage thing does seem to be a common factor in these men. Madame Ovary, your second example of road rage is a pretty standard trip out for us. H drives fast until we catch up the vehicle in front and then we have tailgating and the impatient overtaking dance until he gets past them, and then it starts again with the next vehicle we catch up. If we're in slow moving traffic on the motorway we have incessant lane changing, sighing, wheel pounding etc. Why? He will also never let me listen to the radio channel I want to, and puts my heated seat on to high every time I'm not looking. I realise this sounds totally ridiculous but the bloody things get so hot I actually find them painful. He rarely indicates on roundabouts yet blasts the horn at anyone else doing the same. I could go on. How he has no points on his licence is beyond me. I sometimes feel like reporting him myself.