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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

921 replies

Janos · 21/03/2009 19:35

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

OP posts:
psych101 · 02/04/2009 19:23

.."counseller casually commented that " some men are like that,have you been to the docters to rule out any medical condiotion that may be affecting your libido "????"
hopefullandfree... I thought I was the only one who experienced 'poor' counselling!!! I too was told that it was just from his past, and we can work it out, I was told that just b/c he hasn't kissed me in about 7 years -- and yes, even in bed, he doesn't kiss, (before, during, or after!) my counsellor told me that some people just don't like to kiss,.. I see what she's saying, that basically that's who he is,... but he wasn't that way when I married him! He makes me feel very un-loved.. so I won't sleep with him anymore, can you blame me! So reason for my going on & on, is don't take the RL too seriously.... b/c they're NOT always right.

psych101 · 02/04/2009 19:29

By the way.... just a little food for thought... my dd who is 6 said to me yesterday.. "Mommy, why don't you ever smile?" that has REALLY, REALLY hit me like a brick... and now I must do some serious thinking! I'm the one that always used to laugh and smile and be silly..
We must remember how our lives, and how we feel affect our little ones. Rest assure.... I AM making sure that I smile much more now to my children, and I am really glad she brought that to my attention, and I told her that I have been just smiling inside, and I will try to smile on the outside too, and thanked her for telling me!

gothicmama · 02/04/2009 19:56

cheerfully vicky it can be done its about knowing what you want and being focused on you. You can not change how people behave towards you but you can change how you react to them, try not to put yourself in situations were you can be bullied by him or react in a different way to usual, practice these strategies before hand so you can do this and revert to your normal reaction it is hard but take it from one who knows life is so much better once you make a stand and stick to how you want to be treated

canttakethismuchlonger · 02/04/2009 20:22

hello, can i join and tell you my story?

i am married with DC,one is mine and another is both ours.

we have had a very rocky 2/3 years and have split twice before, both times this was because of his behaviour towards me and my DC.

Twice he has come back and promised to change and its all ok for a few weeks and then it eventually slides back to "normal"

things like

withholding affection/sex (him)
treating his DC a lot better than mine and bullying my DC who has SN.
Refusing to talk or discuss things and when i say i have a problem he just repeats back the exact words i have said and denies it.
Refusing to take responsibility for his debts.
Coming out of work claiming that i "need him at home to help me"
monitoring every where i go and trying his best to make me stay in the house with him,not talking to me but just wanting me there with him
making friends and family uncomfortable when they visit.
not doing anything in the house unless asked to and then expecting me to thank him
i have to plead with him to go and visit people and let me have some peace,he has gone out once this week and the rest of the time sat in the house watching me,if im on the internet he shifts seats to watch,if i go outside to hang washing out he follows me

i told him 2 weeks ago that i dont love him anymore and am not prepared to stay in a loveless,sexless marriage that ive given it my all and i would like him to leave.

his response?

he refuses to go
he will make the magic come back he refuses to accept the marriage is over and
he knows what i need and want deep down and thats him.

im a regular,but he comes on here sometimes looking for messages by me.

i am starting to save money and am planning for the split because it IS going to happen.
i juse feel so

onlygotonelife · 02/04/2009 20:34

For me, I desperately want toleave,but the financial abuse has left me in such a terrible situation, it's another huge hurdle, and I sometimes just feel despairing and that there's no hope, whatever I do.

The other night he woke me at 1.30am demanding money for cigarettes,as he didn't have any money - he said he couldn't sleep till he had 1, so if I couldn't give him the money (he'd happily send me out to a cash machine if I didn't have cash on me, any time of night) he'd not be able to sleep,and if he couldn't, he wouldn't let me sleep either.

He often tellsme I have nothing to cpmplain about in comparison to other people. Personally I think I have plenty to stress about!

I have a baby (wakes 2-3 times a night) and a toddler.
I have no family support, and very limited help from friends.
P struggles with drug addiction,so I have constant worry about money / constant demands for money / no one to rely on in an emergency
I have 28k debt,never having had any debt before meeting him, no job currently
Living environment horrible as run out of money to fix it up because of his spending so it's all half done
I feel lonely and sad much of the time. I cry easily at nothing - even cried at Springwatch song on cbeebies yesterday, why???

I put on a cheerful smiling face for the kids but it's so hard. But the good news is he seems to have agreed to move out, even if only part time

madameovary · 02/04/2009 20:48

and for you. Glad you are beginning to take the first steps to preparing to leave. I hope you find lots of support on this thread.
Only those with experience of abuse can possibly understand how difficult and painful it is. There are many many stages between abuse and recovery,and one of them is coming to terms with the fact that the personwho is supposed to be your partner in life, who is supposed to love, cherish, protect and support you as your equal, is in fact a negative childish emotionally ignorant bully who only wants to control and dominate you , and whose pleasant behaviour is nothing more than a tactic to keep you locked into the cycle of abuse.

It is a facade that takes too much energy to sustain which is why it never lasts.
In other words, jekyll is just a mask Hyde wears.

madameovary · 02/04/2009 20:55

Onelife, you need more support than you are getting, please call Womens Aid, you don't have to go through this on your own. You can get help with your debts too . So many questions I want to ask you but don't want to be oppressive. Please keep posting, we are here for you.

gothicmama · 02/04/2009 21:05

can'ttake this good on you

psych101 · 02/04/2009 21:27

Canttakethismuchlonger... we are very glad you joined in!! Witholding affection / sex IS a form of control as Madameovary mentioned.. I have the same problem. It took me until now to realize that it is control over me. They want us to believe that we're not worthy of their affection/love.. or whatever they're holding from us. (big deal..not all that great anyways..
Making family /friends uncomfortable when visiting,.. same here..I know exactly how you feel! GOOD FOR YOU, yes, it IS going to happen, keep strong!

Onlygotonelife, I really sympathize with your current situation. There is ALWAYS an answer, even if it seems hopeless, yes, please call women's aid, they are there for exact situations like yours... spending all your money and making you feel trapped in that situation is very abusive.. they CAN help you out of this.

It's amazing all the commonalities (is that a word??) that we share here on this thread, it is so obvious that we needed this thread on here... keep posting ladies, it will help.

canttakethismuchlonger · 02/04/2009 21:45

thanks for making me feel welcome

for a long time ive struggled in thinking that i am being EA and thought it was me that was the problem especially when im told

you are always nagging
whats wrong with me staying in all the time theres only you with the problem
i dont mean to upset you i really dont-this when ive been crying and trying to talk about how i feel.

at the moment hes totally devoting time playing and chatting to my DC,which in the past has made me think it IS my fault and that if i break up my marriage im being cruel because he is a good dad,but i know the pattern now.

we did go to relate but stopped because he told a pack of lies and had no intention of
taking the counsellors advice,who i might add was very good and told him straight that how he was treating my DC was wrong.

hes also had counselling from a psychologist and told me that she said he needed to stop treating me and my DC this way as it could be classed as EA.
he got very angry and said she was crap and then he said she,d come on to him and asked him out

the last time we split i got reported to the social for claiming fraudently and my money was stopped and i know where that came from,he was also extremely nasty to my DC,but he whittled me down again and convinced me it was all my fault because i showed DC too much attention.

onlygotonelife · 02/04/2009 23:49

I did call Women's Aid a while ago, maybe a year ago, and I talked to a very sympathetic lady. She told me to call if I needed to get away.

Today he needed £580 for a drug debt,then came back saying he needed another £50 they were charging him for being late with the money, plus £10 to get a cab. When I initially refused, he says that in that case all his pay will go to them, as the debt will go up all the time, and I won't get any, so I'll be even worse off. I have no money either way.

I just hope he's really moving out. It'snot just the drugs that make him behave this way, the cigarette incident was when he had managed a few weeks without drugs.

He just can't put anyone'sneeds before his own.

It really strikes a chord, everyone who mentioned insecurity. He's so arrogant but also can be very insecure.

Different to others though - He is actually very affectionate in some ways,and much more touchy feely than me- but I used to find that hard as he wanted to cuddle up all the time, but denied me sex (unless high). Now I find it hard, because he's pushing my boundaries again as I've made it clear I don't want him to touch me anymore after everything that's happened. He keeps slapping me playfully on the bum -it drives me mad because I've asked him not to so many times. He doesn't respect anything I ask. He turns it round on me,but why would I want to cuddle him when he lies to me, never helps or supports me, is uninterested in me, my views, opinions,interests etc.

whatanarse · 02/04/2009 23:53

Here's a scenario DH and I have pretty regularly.

He gets in from work, obviously had a crap day, looks for someone to torment. That would be me.

Him - "Are you alright?"

Me "yes thanks, are you?" continue with general conversation.

Him, two minutes later - "are you alright?"

Me - Er, yes, thanks" Again, keep chatting normally.

Him, a minute later, as though he hadn't asked the first two times "are you alright?"

Me, knowing where this is going and trying not to rise to it "Yes, thankyou, I am fine".

Him,- Are you sure you're all right? you're being really wierd. What's the matter with you?"

Me - trying to be calm "Nothing, I'm fine, thanks, really". Attempt to change subject.

One minute later "Are you alright?"

Repeat this as many times as it takes for me to reply a little sharply to him, at which point I am, apparently, "Aggressive" "violent" and "mad".

onlygotonelife · 02/04/2009 23:54

Oh, and if he wants to talk,I have tolisten - he'll pursue meround the house,not let me go to bed. If I want to discuss anything, he refuses point blank, sighs dramatically and makes to just walk away,tells me it's too late.... it's so frustrating.

onlygotonelife · 02/04/2009 23:57

whatanarse -p does this too, though I always put it down to him never listening to my answers,so self absorbed, he genuinely doesn't even hear me

mrsblanc · 03/04/2009 00:05

sparklyoldbint and onlygotonelife thank you for answering my question about my dh who accuses me in arguments of being angry when I am not.

I relised today another very odd trait he has which is sort of the opposite of the above.

Is this EA too?

He will often have a sad hang dog expression and sigh a lot and generally look either miserable or pissed off.

When I ask, always gently and kindly whether he is ok he will grump at me and say he is fine while making it very obvious by non verbal means (more sighing, eye rolling) that HE IS DEF NOT OK. I used to gently press till I found out what was wrong but frankly I can no longer be bothered with these daft games.

Thanks for reading
I realise my issues are very small compared to many here

onlygotonelife · 03/04/2009 00:15

mrsblanc- I guess it can count as EA as these people seem to need so much attention, they need to be the focus of everything - sounds like attention seeking

mrsblanc · 03/04/2009 00:24

onlygotonelife i feel like the scales are falling from my eyes!

However his good points are a great many. I just wish he would not play these odd wee games , usually after a spell of us getting on apparently well.

madameovary · 03/04/2009 04:12

Whatanarse- omg ex did this too! First time we lived together it imploded pretty quickly and we would have these supposedly rational discussions about how he would improve the place after I left.
He would say things like "are you calm" and if I said yes would leave immediately to go do something. Designed to unnerve me, obviously.
One of his favourite phrases was "what's wrong? Talk to me" which was so I could open up and tell him stuff he could use against me later

I kept a diary and wonder if I should post bits of it on here. Some of the things he did were lunatic beyond belief, like the time he woke me up brandishing a picture of a naked woman (you couldn't see her face) and demanded to know what I was doing posting pictures of myself on the Internet. He demanded that I strip off and assume the same pose so he could compare. I truly was beyond caring at that point so I told him to go fck himself and went back to bed. In the morning he left a note apologizing and saying that he seemed to have gone insane and wouldn't blame me if I wanted to leave. A common tactic I'm told...

psych101 · 03/04/2009 07:49

whatanarse my h does the exact same thing... except he'll accuse me of being crazy, and aggressive, when I'm not at all. I wouldn't be aggressive to him! As many of you wouldn't be to your h as well.. One time he was so angry b/c I went out with friends one evening and when I came home he was verbally putting me down, don't remember what he said but it was mean, the only time I ever was aggressive, slammed a door and threw an article of clothing at him then went to bed. He proceeded to call the police on me, saying that he was frightened for his safety??? I'm not a strong person, and he is way bigger than me..I came out of bed to come down and talk to the police, and they proceeded to tell me that I should leave him, and she gave me her card & told me to call her anytime I needed.

This was his way of humiliating me, another form of EA.

Anyone else put up with humiliation??

mrsblanc · 03/04/2009 08:08

whatanarse that is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about

sparkyoldbint · 03/04/2009 09:37

mrsblanc, my ex didn't do the hangdog thing but my best friend who's currently divorcing her H because he was EA said he did exactly that and it drove her mad. Your issues may be small compared to some others but they are still very valid and I feel for you having to share your life with a man who is such hard work and contributes so little to your happiness. My best friend too wasn't having a truly terrible time but she was so unhappy and to see her now with her life in front of her is a joy.

I feel the same too, having got away from my ex-H (although he was the one who left, the biggest favour he ever did me!). I'm no spring chick at 51 but I've never felt more optimistic about my life.

hopefullandfree · 03/04/2009 11:21

Mine would also do the sighing and eye rolling , standing around looking sad until i asked him what was wrong. He victimised himself and constantly claimed people were " picking on him " at work. They werent, but he used this scenario repeatedly to get attention from me.
No one else got a look in, it was always about him.

I think i somehow became his substitute mother, his mum is a controlling domineering critical old cow, and in his warped mind i think he expected me to give him all the things his mother never did, ie unconditional love and support , immediate forgineness after each tantrum, like a mother does with a toddler.

As much as he looked like a man,, he wasnt, rather a 5 year old boy in a mans body. He was incapable of considering other peoples needs , only his own mattered and if they werent met there would be rages and tantrums.After each tantrum there would be a pathetic apology, almost childlike.

He would often scream at me that i didnt love him, and degrade himself so that i would say something complimentary to him.

Anyway, hes snow sniffing round anything in a skirt, looking for another mummy to look after him, who she is is unimportant to him, he will suck up attention in any form, anyone will do.

He also enjoyed setting people against each other , constantly bitching like a fishwife and would regularly tell me what he claimed people had said about me behind my back. He envied anyone who was better than him or had something he didnt.

And, like everyone else says, he didnt say that, im putting words in his mouth, i twist everything aparently, im impossible to talk to and better still i brainwashed him. When i was upset about the vile verbal assaults he would act exasperated and actually say " god, you take everything literally dont you ".
I now see that every crap quality he accused me of having were actually qualitys he had.In fact i once made a list of his good / bad qualitys and there werent many good ones.

However, i have noticed that certain charecteristics keep cropping up on this thread.

Mine was emotionally abusive , sexually abusive, verbally abusive, financially secretive and irresponsible, invades my privacy , insecure and needy , extremeley reckless driver , addicted to the internet, sucks up to people , is two faced , will exploit people for his own gain, exageraes and lies , attention seeker , enjoys pity partys , constantly demanded affection, bad relationship with his mother who hes terrified of , calls me names behind my back, enjoys upsetting me , takes from others what he lacks himself , is tight with money, is a hoarder ,is sexually derogatory about women in general ,, is a sneak and a snide , jealous of the kids , and he doesnt have a clue who he is,, he needs someone to tell him who to be.

Oh yes, and sexually he was like a teenager, always groping with inapropriate remarks, also had severe premature ejaculation.
Also highly amused when i went to the bathroom and would go on about it saying " did you enjoy your poo ". Also poor personal hygeine and thought it funny to do loud disgusting farts.

Wonder if he,d be best advertsing himself on adoption sites rather than dating sites !

RealityIsMyOnlyChocolateEgg · 03/04/2009 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hopefullandfree · 03/04/2009 11:37

Nearly left out the biggest one which is " WERE NOT HAVING THIS CONVERSATION " or "IM NOT DISCUSSING IT " , this always occured when i tried to speak to him about his behaviour, usually he would bang several doors before roaring away recklessly in his car.

Usually i would get a call telling me im a heartless bitch as i havent even called to see if he was ok !! Also constant threats of suicide and hysterical crying if i dared to assert myself about his abuse. He regularly pretended to cry, with his mouth open with loud sobs like a child.

He also bullied me into having children i did not want with the usual screaming and ranting and name calling.

One day i burst into tears, and sobbing told him that i was unhappy and things had to change. His response was to put his face into mine and scream that i was an evil bitch.

He never got involved with the kids but when i tried to discipline them he would intervene and tell me i was tight and "always having a go at them ".

Occasionally i remember his nice moments and miss him a little, but its rare now, as i know who he really is. Now i just see a short balding little man and honestly wonder why i was ever so afraid of him.

hopefullandfree · 03/04/2009 12:04

Reality, they really are like children arent they!
Mine would gorge on food until his stomach protruded and he would have to undo his trousers. Also drank a lot .
I never went out socially with him as he would say stupid things to people and embarress me.

I stupidly felt responsible and sorry for him, still do ocasionally, thats what kept me tied in for so long.

After one particular vicsous sexual assault i was understandably upset, by that, i mean i was crying and refused to have sex with him.I had already had to physicly fight him off me.
He was so enraged he towered over me screaming into my face, punching the chair , narrowingly missing me to intimidate me. He screamed how he was sick of me being frigid and continued to scream in detail about why i should allow him to do what it is that he wanted to do.
My children were in bed and could here every word,, he regularly did this as i would normally placate him so they wouldnt hear ( emotional blackmail ).
Anyway, i snapped and literally beat him senseless. He was hurt and called the police who arrested me.I felt like i had beaten a small child.

I was so downtrodden , lacking confidence ,felt guilty and ashamed, beleived the things he said that i admitted it and explained that i had just snapped , it wasnt him, he hadnt done anything wrong it was all me.
He obviously realised that this was a good game to play and he called the police several more times beore i finally got him out.

When arguing he would run from room to room so that the kids could see how upset he was , or he would deliberateley shout so that they would hear, as this usually meant i would back down. Would also constantly suggest that i ask my freinds what a good husband he was!!
Absoluteley bonkers.

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