Massive row has erupted over something so small

[Geetar]

I've namechanged for this as some of you know me in real life.

I have four boys aged 17, 15, 10 and 7. A few weeks ago DH pulled me up saying that I 'baby' the kids and they should be doing more for themselves. Especially putting their own clothes away.

I agree, especially about the older ones but as I explained to DH, its just much easier for me to put everyones clothes away at the same time whilst they're at school. Especially as I'm at home all day.

He disagreed and said I was making excuses. I just told him I would continue to do it my way, if he wanted to give up his job and become a house husband whilst I worked, he could run the house his way.

So from then on, everytime he saw a pile of fresh ironing he just swiped all the clothes onto the floor. Then whilst I picked them up he would say "see, if the kids were doing their own clothes, you wouldn't be down there now picking them up, would you?"

I told him he was a smug, stubborn and immature idiot and if he did it again I would stop washing and ironing HIS clothes. He went in a major strop and stormed upstairs and raked all of the clothes out of the drawers and threw them all down the stairs.

From that point on I stopped washing and ironing his clothes.

So this morning when he got up for work, he had no clean shirts. He asked why and I reminded him what I'd said and what he'd done and he went nuts and punched the door, called me a fucking imbecile and smashed a mug before calling in sick.

He has not spoken to me all day. I don't understand why such little disagreements have to erupt into such massive rows. I don't think I was in the wrong totally?

I disagree with your last post charity

I think there are a few posters who have roundly condemned op's dh's behaviour as unforgivable and disgusting

and then

separately raised the issue with the op of how helpful is it to be a slave to her teenage sons

like Spokette said.

I completely agree that great teenage lummocks should be putting away their own clothes. No arguments there, and none with the OP's husband for raising it.

It just seems to me that his subsequent behaviour was SO outside the bounds of reasonable or sane behaviour that it completely overshadows the original argument!

I mean, he literally sounds nuts to me.

No argument from me either. Clearing up after yourself, tidying, putting stuff away, laundry etc, are basic life skills, and I think it's my job as a parent to equip my children with those skills so they can survive on their own in the big bad world.

When my dad was at college, he knew a man who didn't wash or change his clothes for some weeks, because he was used to his mum telling him to do even the most basic of things (ie, bath or put on clean socks). The other chaps had to teach him these skills that his mum had failed to equip him with.

But I don't think that the op's dh went the right way about the discussion - that sort of verbal aggression and nastiness isn't a good lesson for children to learn either.

And dee - would your daughter like to come and do a spot of helping round here - because in my household 'helping' means taking the pile of neatly ironed clothes and shoving it into a cupboard with your football boots. To be honest, her way sounds like more fun!

And dirty laundry lives under the bed - until the weekend when the threat of no pocket money tends to result in a sudden filling of the washing basket. Though ds1 has improved dramatically as he's become, in his words, semi-mature - so there's hope for the other two!

But isn't that part of the job of a parent? To work through the clothes all over the floor and not taking responsibility side of being a teenager? I really think it is taking the lazy option to just do everything for your children forever, and not force any responsibility on them as they grow. I think the OP doesn't do this because she doesn't want the additional work, and I can understand that, but I really think she is doing her sons a disservice (not because of the opinions of future wives, but for their own pride and independence). My mother had us help with sorting out laundry from putting our socks together when we were small, and then moving to taking our clothes upstairs and putting them away, and finally to us doing the actual wash. I am sure it was a hassle to make us do it, but then parenthood is quite a hassle.

The irony here is that she has avoided the hassle of fighting with her sons for fighting with her husband instead, as he is behaving in a stereotypical teenage fashion, it's just that you expect that from a teenager, and not from an adult.

Stupid row, nastiness on both sides, clearly a lot under the surface and what a mess to sort out. And no I don't think his behaviour is excusable, just that there are reasons for it that could surely have been avoided by better communication in the first place. No one should ever throw out their fellow parent's feelings by saying they don't count unless the other parent has completely opted out of parenting, and that doesn't mean by going to work.

I am absolutely horrified that anyone can defend his behaviour here.

Does it really matter if the laundry gets put away for the children or not? Sure, if they do it for themselves, that's great and it helps get them into a good habit. But if the op does it for them and it doesn't cause her much extra work and she enjoys it, then it doesn't really matter. I don't really see the difference between doing that and making a meal for them, for example. Either way though, this really isn't a big thing at all. At best, it's a little bit of bickering/nagging which happens in every household to some extent.

The /real/ issue here is her dh's behaviour which is appalling. It's not 'childlike' - it'a a grown man punching, throwing and breaking things. It goes way beyone disrespect and I'd be quite frightened of a person in the house who behaved in this matter. Utterly unacceptable and he needs help with his temper. Also, if my husband called me a 'fucking imbecile', I'd be outta there pretty quickly. I'd be deeply worried about what/who he was going to take his temper out on next.

CaliforniaBrit

Have you actually read what most posters have written? Most have roundly condenmed the DH's behaviour. Separately, they have commented on the other issues too.

As for the name calling, the OP called her DH names too. No doubt the ardent men bashers on here who think women can do no wrong will say that what the DH said was worse than what the OP said but that to me is irrelevant. When you start on the road of name calling, it will escalate. The fact that both of them are too immature as well as stubborn to see that, says a lot about the communication in their relationship. Neither have behaved well in this and they should both be contrite about the example they are setting their sons.

There are clearly other issues at play here and imo, neither party is more innocent than the other as some would like to believe. So the competitive outrage is really out of place here

(CaliforniaBrit her, I namechanged)

I'm not an ardent men basher at all. I just find the idea of him throwing clothes on the floor then mocking her while on the floor to be disturbing and humiliating. That goes beyond the previous bickering. Then it jumps to a whole new level of disturbing. Yes, she's not perfect in the debate but that's irrelevant imo. Her behaviour is perhaps irritating at worst. His is terrifying.

Right now, I don't think it helps the op to criticise her over a minor issue like laundry. There's something far more important going on here and I'm worried that if people hint that she provoked him, she'll see his behaviour as acceptable or deserved.

Really, the laundry does NOT matter. Every household is going to handle the division of chores differently, it's just not a big issue, especially in the face of this.

Sure, she called him an idiot and this isn't perfect behaviour, obviously but to me it isn't outside the realm of normal arguing. I don't believe however that ANYONE deserves to be called a fucking imbecile or to have to put up with someone punching and throwing things.

My 17yr old DB was the laziest person imaginable. In spite of being shown how to do everything. But once he got out on his own he became perfectly capable of doing everything for himself. He ran his own home for years, and now does more or less everything at home as well as working as his wife has ME.

Teens tend to be lazy. It's the nature of the beast. I'd prefer them to be lazy in their teen years than pick up messages about disrespect and bullying from their father.

true, ormirian, but the other posters do have a point about the lack of training.

My DH, bless him, was a lost cause as far as his ma was concerned at about age 13. She gave up trying to make him do stuff - consequently in his 30s he still leaves all his clothes all over the floor, clean and dirty, he does next to no housework or tidying (although he cooks the evening meal and does the washing up, mostly - but this is the trade off we agreed because he also gets a full night's sleep every night). Ironing is a foreign word to him, hanging clothes up is almost unheard of and collecting his washing into a basket is a fortnightly job that he does do (I refuse to unstick his grundies from the floor!)

His ma admitted to me that she gave up training both her sons at around 13 because she thought their girlfriends coudl finish the job - alas that they didn't get girlfriends for a very long time, so their slack teen behaviour became entrenched!

I got the impression that the children do nothing in the house at all, and that the dh thought that at the very least they could put their clothes away. That they obviously had a disagreement about it, the outcome of which was that the OP told her dh that she would do it her way and his opinion was pretty much irrelevant, even though she actually agreed with him! I regard that as rude, unpleasant and dismissive. I expect that there were mitigating circumstances and the OP isn't telling all the story (as is normal, esp on AIBU) but if my dh (the SAHP in our house) dismissed my views on what is not a housekeeping issue but a parenting issue I would be incredibly upset and angry. I don't think I'd throw things around, because that's not my nature, but I think it would be very very destructive to our relationship.

Then it also sounds as if this situation has been going on for some days, so obviously no one is in reconciliation mood. I would really worry about this relationship because both parties appear to have dug in. Obviously throwing things around is out of order, but the name calling was pretty mutual.

The DH is behaving in an abusive manner, regardless of the provocation. How many violent partners defend their behaviour by saying their other half "asked for it" or "wound me up."
I cannot see ANY excuse for his actions, and I think that when people start defending vile behaviour by saying things like "oh, but he's under pressure at work" or "there's an underlying issue here" they're on a slippery slope.
Wonder how it's all going though.

Of course the OP's (where is she?) ds' should be putting their own clothes away but if the dh felt so strongly about it then why didn't he sit them all down and tell the boys that it wasn't fair on their mum - blardy, blardy blah? The posters who are defending him and stating how pissed off the boys' partners are going to be when they don't pull their weight, are forgetting that these partners will probably be on mn in a few years, stating how their dh's are bullying them and being violent and agressive to them when they don't get their own way. I'd do more than refuse to wash his clothes, I can tell you!

I've just come back to this thread and read all the posts and I still cannot find any way in which I could defend what the dh has done. They had an arguement and things were said, but in my mind the op was right to state that while she is at home doing the housework she will do it her way. What is the big deal about that? Fair enough if she was deciding which school to send them to or converting them to another religion or something but really, is putting their clothes away at the same time as she puts all the others away such a big deal??? Of course it isn't, and to try and defend the dh's actions by saying he feels worthless and undermined is just ridiculous, and condoning the vicious, abusive way he has behaved.

And no, I'm in no way a "man-basher" as somebody described the people defending the op, I just don't like this particular "man"'s behaviour!

All those who've been trying to rationalise this man's behaviour, should get themselves over to Geetar's other thread on "Relationships" (DH is driving me mad.) Can't doo links, sorry.

Not defending him, but suggesting issues that could be a trigger, two different things. I think the op knows he is a bully and his actions, for whatever reason are wrong and not acceptable.

FWIW he is a bully and a complete twat, but Geetar wants support, not confirmation that she has married a knob.

Gettar's OH still being a knob (part two) this the link Clam that you wanted.

or maybe Chapter Two

I hope that Geetar can get some r/l local support - she sounds very isolated and that worries me.