Massive row has erupted over something so small

[Geetar]

I've namechanged for this as some of you know me in real life.

I have four boys aged 17, 15, 10 and 7. A few weeks ago DH pulled me up saying that I 'baby' the kids and they should be doing more for themselves. Especially putting their own clothes away.

I agree, especially about the older ones but as I explained to DH, its just much easier for me to put everyones clothes away at the same time whilst they're at school. Especially as I'm at home all day.

He disagreed and said I was making excuses. I just told him I would continue to do it my way, if he wanted to give up his job and become a house husband whilst I worked, he could run the house his way.

So from then on, everytime he saw a pile of fresh ironing he just swiped all the clothes onto the floor. Then whilst I picked them up he would say "see, if the kids were doing their own clothes, you wouldn't be down there now picking them up, would you?"

I told him he was a smug, stubborn and immature idiot and if he did it again I would stop washing and ironing HIS clothes. He went in a major strop and stormed upstairs and raked all of the clothes out of the drawers and threw them all down the stairs.

From that point on I stopped washing and ironing his clothes.

So this morning when he got up for work, he had no clean shirts. He asked why and I reminded him what I'd said and what he'd done and he went nuts and punched the door, called me a fucking imbecile and smashed a mug before calling in sick.

He has not spoken to me all day. I don't understand why such little disagreements have to erupt into such massive rows. I don't think I was in the wrong totally?

Message withdrawn

If he had hit her, rather than hitting a door, would we still be justifying this because she was passive-aggressive to him or didn't respect his input into her parenting decision?

When the door writes in asking us whether it should press charges and think about finding itself a new frame we'll all support the door.

I don't disagree with what you said in the first argument - you are the one choosing to do the chores, it's your time and your day however you plan it.

If dh had said that I would have said what you would have done and then I would have asked if we could give the kids more responsibility in other ways that weren't inconvenient to my routine.

He has totally over-reacted and I would have left by now until he calmed down (dh would never treat me like this). Presuming that he is never like this then you need to talk obviously, if he is generally like this then you could think about leaving.

And agree the argument is probably about him not feeling in control about something, being undermined etc etc

Sorry for you

Unbeleivable. It's not up to him to decide what you do or do not do for the children. And why should you do those things for him if he tells you not to do them for your boys.

Is he often like this?

I don't think OP behaved badly at all.

If OPs DH really thinks there is a problem with the way she treats the boys then changing should be a joint effort. Sitting the children down and explaining that they will now have to take responsiblity for X and Y. Otherwise she will just end up being a 'nasty nagging mother, who never stops going on about this and that', and the children will resent her not both of them. If he beleives that this is the way the boys should behave then he needs to be part of making them stop.

Oh and BTW, if I earn more than DH and work longer hours, does that mean he should be washing, ironing and putting all my clothes away, as well as doing the school run and cooking ? Because the implication of many posts on this thread is just that. He works therefore he has the right to expect f*ing to be waited on hand and foot whilst OP and the children do everything.

It goes without saying that your husband's behaviour is viscious, bullying and immature in the extreme and you have my sympathy.

BUT, I think he's right that your 17 and 15 year old should be putting their own clothes away and I think he has the right to express that view as their parent.

It may be easier for you to put the ironing away and you may chose to do it but, honestly, you are doing them no favours at all.

How many zillions of threads have there been on Mumsnet from deeply unhappy women who are shocked to discover that their male partner somehow expects the woman of the house to deal with most, if not all, domestic duties after marriage/setting up a partnership?

Issues like this cause genuine strife and unhappiness in marriages and the breakdown of relationships.

How would you feel if in 15 years time the wife or partner of one of your sons came on to Mumsnet and started a thread saying she was sick of living with a lazy sexist partner?

I know its not the real point of your thread and I cannot say strongly enough how much I abhor your H's reaction to this argument. But actually the argument was not over a small, trivial matter, it was a very important issue over the way you both parent your children and I think it needs attention.

If someone swiped my clean laundry to the floor I would raise an unimpressed eyebrow and go and read my book or something. I certainly wouldn't pick it up.

You are quite right - it is your decision whether or not you put your children's clothes away, no one elses. Can't quite believe that some people are picking up on this as an important factor in this row. Bigger picture, your husband is behaving like a tit.

Talk about disrespect...what an arse.

"it is your decision whether or not you put your children's clothes away, no one elses"

I presume this kind of unilateral parenting works both ways?

Say if her DH wants to spend a huge amount of money on something for his sons that she doesn't think they should have, it's none of her business right?

It's his decision and nobody else's what he buys for his children.

Similarly it's presumably OK for him to take decisions about what his sons are allowed to do, what responsibilities they should have, and how much money to give them, all without any discussion with their mother.

Dee - earlier on the thread you said:

"If my husband tried to write me out of important child-rearing decisions the way you have done with him in such an unpleasant passive-aggressive way I would lose it too."

And:

"I think it is her fault.

If I had an argument with my husband that ended with me telling him that if he wanted to have a say in how our house was run he had to give up working I would not consider that "something so small" and I certainly wouldn't expect that to be the end of it.

I think the bullying, nasty behaviour started right there"

I read this as saying she deserved what happened to her, hence my asking if the response would be the same if he'd hit her not the door.

And a quick question - why is it good parenting practice to 'lose it' with the other parent when they disagree with you on a parenting issue? It's not going to resolve the situation, unless by losing it you bully the other parent into accepting your decision. I wouldn't want to parent like that.

The OP didn't handle the discussion well, I agree. I suspect that she's seeing it as a housekeeping issue (possibly thinking, 'why should it matter to dh how I do the housework as long as it's done') whilst he sees it as a parenting one (thinking 'I don't want our children to grow up thinking women are there to wait on them hand and foot - they need to learn to do stuff like this for themselves'). And for the record, if that's what he's thinking, I think he's right.

But, and like mine, it's a big but, I don't think that excuses his very aggressive behaviour. It sounds as though he was totally out of control. If he can lose it so badly over a disagreement about laundry, I'd be scared of what he'd do next time!

Well i have nothing else to say but WTF is it with men and punching things when they get angry?
IMO it is so every time you think about pissing them off you will look at the door with the hole in it and think better of continuing the argument / discussion lest it turns nasty and something else in the house, or you, gets punched.

I have been angry many times but have never hit my kids/partner/a door

Why should he be excused whatever it was he punched? Arse. He soooo needs anger management.

OP.. i know its easier, i have done the 'they bodge it so i may as well do it' thing, and it does not help future partners of your kids lol
Make them do it, you're not backing down, make it clear its not in response to the violence but more that you have been thinking it for a long time ect

Umm, the OP seems to have disappeared quite some time ago. Is this worth getting any knickers twisted? FWIW I wasn't convinced she was real...

He is an immature bully and I see no problem in you telling the kids to help as bit mpre but if you are at home and everyone else is at school and work I see no harm in it.It would be a worry if they were incapable or refusing but it doesn't sound like you have told them what they need to be doing around the house.I am a bit like you I do do everything for ds who is 15 but he can do it if asked

stayingsunnygirl

Yeah, I think I pretty much agree with you.

His behaviour is totally out of line too.

It's just the way the OP is written. It screams passive aggression to me - all this surprise at how the argument "erupted" over "something so small" when it was the OP herself who escalated it into a major issue.

Sometimes people lose their shit a little bit, and sometimes it's understandable. If I had to live with someone who treated me like the DH in this saga I think eventually I would flip out (although not in the ways described here). The bit about him not going to work in particular makes it sounds like he is genuinely at the end of his tether with this.

I think she owes him an apology and then he owes her one. Or the other way around. It doesn't matter really. They both have amends to make.

Blimey, very accurate thread title!

Could I ask if this is a very unusual occurence?
Do you always handle your conflicts like this?

If this is a one-off then there must be something else
going on, some underlying reason why things have escalated so badly.

Kids should be putting their own stuff away - tidying after yourself is a life skill, and op is not helping her children by doing everything for them.

BUT

Your DH sounds scary. And mean. Totally uncalled for.

Absolutely right, Dee.

And PerArdua - I was wondering where the OP was too...

" He sounds like a great big toddler who is jealous of the attention and care his dcs get"

Exactly.

If he really thought it would damage their sons there are much better proactive ways of dealing with it. Ways that involve him doing something other than attacking his wife

She probably dismissed his concerns in the first place because he's a wanker who constantly tries to tell her he's in charge because he's the wage earner. The fact that he carried on throwing laundry around, stamping his little feet and breaking things for days doesn't suggest a poor put upon ignored man, it suggests a wanker who thinks his cock will fall off if he doesn't get his own way.

dittany

He may have started the negativity, but she escalated it to enormous row proportions.

He is entitled to think and say so if he things she is babying their children. Telling him to give up his job and be a SAHD or else STFU is pretty childish too.

If you escalate a row you have to bear some of the responsibility for how out of control things get in the aftermath.

He is acting like a toddler - which is why I think that impotent rage might be at the root of it as it can be with littlies.

Right, so now we're just making things up that aren't even in the OP so we can bring our own prejudices right out into the open?

DeeBM: her OP states that they first had the disagreement about putting the laundry away weeks ago, that the man has been throwing laundry on the floor repeatedly since, that when she told him to stop it, he threw a tantrum and got violent.
He's clearly a wanker. She probably spoke impatiently to him the first time because she's aware he's a wanker and a bully and doesn't see why she should placate him when he starts making unreasonable demands.
It sounds a pretty unhealthy situation to me, but it's far more his fault than hers. He;s the one using sustained agression to try and make his partner obey him.

I don't know why some women set up an argument on purpose and when the man gets angry says the man is to blame.

It's like saying let me see how far I can push you and if I succeed then you're not a man or you are an abuser.

It seems he wants to teach his boys life skills so they'll be good men and not expect their future partners to act like their mothers.

And we wonder why men are becoming so weak and immature!