DP got violent sort of, but I provoked him, not sure what to make of it all (long)

[Crowley]

I have name changed for this.

I have been with my partner for around 2 years, we have lived together for the past year or so.

I am out 3 nights a week on a college course (purely hobby, nothing that will further career or anything). Last friday night I was invited out to the pub for a few drinks. I went and DP was fine about it. I also went out on the saturday night with some friends and on the sunday morning until lunch time.

All last week was normal, work during day, out 3 nights at college. I was invited out again on Friday night to an anne summers party. I went but DP asked if I'd stay in saturday as he'd like to get a takaway and watch movie together. I agreed.

Saturday however I was invited out to somewhere I used to go years ago and had missed loads, I agreed. I didn't think DP would be that bothered.

Anyway he was and asked me to cancel. I said no. He got really angry with me and said I was being selfish. I kind if knew deep down that I was but I'm stubborn and didn't want to back down. I insisted I'd be going out and he didn't have to like it.

Saturday evening came and I started getting ready. He cornered me in the living room and said he wasn't going to let me out. I told him I wasn't asking for him permision and I turned my back on him. He then grabbed my arm, spun me back to him and pinned me against the wall. He dropped his arms when he realised he'd frightend me but he kept shouting in my face and he was being so aggressive. Its the first time I have ever feared him. Its the most frightened I have ever been to be honest. I thought he was going to beat me up.

He finished by shouting "get away, out of my fucking sight" and I ran upstairs. I cancelled going out and then started to get changed into night clothes, crying. He came charging upstairs a few minutes later, caught me half undressed and shouted "are you getting changed???" thinking I was getting ready to go out. I told him I was getting changed into nightclothes and he shouted "don't you dare fucking lie to me" and I showed him my nightdress. I was crying and so scared again and he took it off me, put his arms around and me and said "i'm so sorry, I'm acting like a complete twat. Don't ever be frightened of me, I just miss you when you're out all the time".

I'm confused by it all because I KNOW I provoked the whole thing by being so selfish and arrogent. But, I'm still not sure if he would have hit me if I'd pushed him further and that bothers me.

I have apologised to but I'm now feeling wary of him which I never did before. Am I justified or as it was my own fault it got so bad, should I let it go?

Relationships do get heated and people say and do things they shouldn't - it can't be compared to a work situation. It isn't acceptable but if you are convinced he really is sorry then I don't think it necessarily means leave him (and I would be on the "leave him" side if he had actually been violent).
Again, this isn't excusing him in any way, but have you realised he probably thinks you are having an affair? Why do you want to spend so little time with him?

Salem, what would be in for the woman to stick around respecting a man who if 'dissed' would resort to abuse (verbal or physical).

I was with a man who demanded obedience and expected respect!? Why would I have respected him? He was a bully with no decency, no empathy, no selflessness, capable of frightening angry outbursts..

Would YOU respect a man like that?

I respect plenty of people, and they all deserve it.

God you always find women who justify men's violence don't you. What is this idea that you should hang on till he actually hits you before you dump him? He has used violence. Shouting in someone's face, pushing them, grabbing them, scaring them, is "actual" violence.

I think the OP has been selfish and irritating, but no normal decent man responds to behaviour like that in the way htis man did. He shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt so that he can give her a black eye next time. And of course he's said sorry - they all do, otherwise they'd be binned every time they perpetrated an act of DV, wouldn't they, and it wouldn't be the major social problem it is.

DV always starts like this - little incidents, overstepping the mark and feeling sorry for it, going too far... DV doesn't start with a bloke giving you a black eye first time- or even tenth time in most cases. It's why it's so common, becuase it's so difficult to recognise until it's become normal. And of course, you'll always get people telling you it's not DV because you haven't actually got any bruises or broken bones yet.

If you're scared of him, you can't live with him, full stop. What you need to ask yourself, is if there is anything he can do which would make you NOT scared of him. But if you have a hunch, you should probably follow it.

I have shouted at my DS in the past not proud of him, and I regularly grab him as he runs past to get his nappy changed. Am I violent?

Not proud of it!
Very proud of him

DV might always start like this but grabbing someone because you've reached the end of your tether isn't necessarily going to lead to DV.

It's like saying all heroin users have smoked cannabis. While that might be true, it doesn't mean that all cannabis smokers will go on to abuse heroin.

Incidentally, I grew up in a home where this kind of low level DV happened occasionally. It wasn't great but it never, ever escalated into anything more than the odd shove.

It's pernicious nonsense to say that it always escalates - I agree with wannaBe

well said spicemonster!

spicemonster yes that is a good point and exactly why i don't usually post on these threads.

i've been in a relationship with similar low level dv, but pretty high levels of emotional abuse.

now i'm with dh we have each thrown things around in temper but it feels completely different, i'm not cowed. crowley says she feels wary of him and that makes me think it isn't going to have a happy ending.

Stealthpolarbear, is your DS afraid of you? are you claiming to have an equal relationship with him?

As in real life, there is a massive amount of underplaying of DV on this thread. The frustration doesn't necessarily mean the DV will escalate, no, but the OP has clearly stated that she now feels fear of her DP. And that's the difference between passion and DV.

no to both answers, but is it the "equal relationship" that makes shouting and grabbing expressions of violence, whereas in an unequal relationship they aren't?

No

I think you should stop trivialising DV actually.

Grabbing a baby or toddler while you're changing their nappy, is only comparable to a man grabbing a woman in order to make her comply with his demands, if you are determined to underplay the threat of violence implicit in the latter.

The OP has said she is scared of her DP. I see that as a problem.

I'm not sure I understnd your point then, sorry. I suppose they are somewhere on the spectrum of violent behaviour, but then surely that means that violent behaviour within a relationahip does not automatically mean a violent relationship? It's never a good thing (like I said I'm not proud and I don't intend to do it) but it doesn't make me a violent mother, and it doesn't mean I will graduate to smacking him!

What is his reaction to it all? Is he sweeping it under the carpet or appologetic for his physical attempt to restrain you?

My ex used to over react with me and very much reflecting on my personal circumstance I took it to be my fault. He always stopped himself just to late (bruises - particularly upper arms from being grabbed and scared but not hospitalised or anything). I always ended up feeling it was my fault and I should try harder not to provoke him. Over the years (13 together) this became, i can now see, ridiculous. When he became violent with our elder son (3 at the time) I'm ashamed to say my first reaction was that he was provoked - I was to used to brushing it under the carpet. I think he knew things had got out of control and had an affair (not his first I now believe) pretty much emptied the bank accounts and left.

My circumstances may be very different but the one significant thread that people from abusive relationships seam to have is that they accepted they provoked the reaction. If he can admit he over reacted and had an anger issue there is a far greater chance this can be dealt with.

No of course violent behaviour does not always lead to violent relationships.

But I think we need to remember that in RL, DV is trivialised and underplayed all the time - I expect the OP will either not mention it to friends in RL (because people tend not to) or if she does, the balance of probability is that they will tell her it's not such a big deal as he didn't actually hit her. And that of course, is how people sleepwalk into violent relationships - because no relationship ever starts off violent, women aren't that thick, contrary to media myths. Which is why I asked her if there is anything he can do, to not make her scared.

I'm not dismissing the idea that this relationship can be fixed - if she's not scared of him, this was a one off and they can all live happily ever after, great. But I think there is so little awareness of DV out in the big wide world (unlike here on MN) that it's important not to give women who are seeking advice on the subject of DV or potential DV, the same messages that they will receive in the outside world anyway. There will be no shortage of people to tell her she's making a fuss about nothing and she deserved it because her behaviour was atrocious. I just think it's important that the danger that she could sleepwalk into a violent relationship if she doesn't pick up on danger signals (and the OP's DP has sent out some danger signals) is recognised and pointed out to her. (And to any other woman who is reading this thread and hasn't recognised danger signals.)

i think the op was out 3/5 evenings where i presume her children were being looked after by her partner - i assume this was agreed.

i think what lacking rethesocial weekends - where thereare no children to be looked after, is that a discussion doesn't need to be had, i think this is very selfish and discourtious/dismissive of your partners wants, needs and feelings within the relationship - itwasselfish thinking about you.

i also think that his reaction was way over the top, i think he meant to assert his physical presence, i think he meant to frighten you to assert control - just to remind you who is boss

i am not sure whether emotional negligence is worse than than am implicit threat
not to say it isn't - just i'm not sure.

certainly warrents a proper PROPER discussion where you wholeheartedly swallow humble pie and apologise.

you need to also s.p.e.l.l. it out..you can't threaten me becuase that will be the end of the relationship

i would be expecting an apology from him too

DV isn't about hitting, its about power and control all day every day - over some or all facets of life
and anyone who has had experience of that can back that up

one incident does not dv make - if this incident was together with daily and continuous manipulation
-if she feels that the 'manages' either him or her situation ( hiding beer, using particular language, having tea on table..etc.etc)

So... you're out 3 nights a week, you went out last weekend for the whole weekend and then again on Friday, and then you cancelled with him so you could go out on the Saturday?

Do you ever actually spend time with him at all?

I am of course not condoning any violent behaviour, he is of course a massive ta@ for acting like that..

Is there the possibiliy that he's jealous of all the time your spending away from him?

that was meant to be massive TW@

"in RL, DV is trivialised and underplayed all the time "
agree with this. I don't think anyone on this thread has said she deserves this - she doesn't, no way!

I agree that DV is downplayed IRL but I also agree with Custardo - DV is about way more than the physical. If this is purely a one-off in reaction to being treated really pretty badly (and I would be bloody furious if my partner treated me like this) then that's an entirely different thing IMO. I am not for one minute condoning this man but I can entirely understand how frustrated he must have felt to have been ditched because a better option had arisen.

I don't agree that once your partner has grabbed you once you're going to end up in hospital eventually. And that has been the main thrust of this thread.

It isn't always black and white.

Haven't read the full thread but from the op may well have been selfish but so was her DP. She said it was something she had planned, somewhere she had not been to for a while and missed because it used to be a part of her life. Why should he want to deny her one evening which is going to make her happy? This sounds to me like very controlling behaviour not the attitude of someone who loves the op and wishes for her to be happy. Would she have reacted as violently if he wanted an evening out with this mates?
I would be very wary that he would do this again, apologise and do it again, apologise and do it again.

To me, the concern is not simply that he grabbed OP, but his general reaction, the way he spoke to her etc - a situation where he was asking the OP not to go out, and perhaps then held her as she was trying to go out in order to continue the discussion might be one thing, but what's described sounds frightening. As I posted earlier, no-one should feel scared or wary of their partner, but OP is. And that can't be right.

Maybe it's a one off. But I wouldn't want to be waiting for it to happen again.

I don't agree that it has been the main thrust of this thread. I think people have picked up on the danger signals this particular man has been sending out, and judging that escalation is a likely outcome in this particular case.

What danger signals except for that one occurence? To me, there'd have to be more than one example of someone losing it for me to walk out or kick him out. And that IS what most people have advocated. And surely, if they're saying that she should walk, then it's because they think it's going to escalate. I hate to think that anyone would advocatethat one grab/shove is sufficient grounds to end a relationship.

I am no apologist for DV, far from it. But I do think if the OP had posted that her DP had behaved the way she has, people would have told her to walk.