DP got violent sort of, but I provoked him, not sure what to make of it all (long)

[Crowley]

I have name changed for this.

I have been with my partner for around 2 years, we have lived together for the past year or so.

I am out 3 nights a week on a college course (purely hobby, nothing that will further career or anything). Last friday night I was invited out to the pub for a few drinks. I went and DP was fine about it. I also went out on the saturday night with some friends and on the sunday morning until lunch time.

All last week was normal, work during day, out 3 nights at college. I was invited out again on Friday night to an anne summers party. I went but DP asked if I'd stay in saturday as he'd like to get a takaway and watch movie together. I agreed.

Saturday however I was invited out to somewhere I used to go years ago and had missed loads, I agreed. I didn't think DP would be that bothered.

Anyway he was and asked me to cancel. I said no. He got really angry with me and said I was being selfish. I kind if knew deep down that I was but I'm stubborn and didn't want to back down. I insisted I'd be going out and he didn't have to like it.

Saturday evening came and I started getting ready. He cornered me in the living room and said he wasn't going to let me out. I told him I wasn't asking for him permision and I turned my back on him. He then grabbed my arm, spun me back to him and pinned me against the wall. He dropped his arms when he realised he'd frightend me but he kept shouting in my face and he was being so aggressive. Its the first time I have ever feared him. Its the most frightened I have ever been to be honest. I thought he was going to beat me up.

He finished by shouting "get away, out of my fucking sight" and I ran upstairs. I cancelled going out and then started to get changed into night clothes, crying. He came charging upstairs a few minutes later, caught me half undressed and shouted "are you getting changed???" thinking I was getting ready to go out. I told him I was getting changed into nightclothes and he shouted "don't you dare fucking lie to me" and I showed him my nightdress. I was crying and so scared again and he took it off me, put his arms around and me and said "i'm so sorry, I'm acting like a complete twat. Don't ever be frightened of me, I just miss you when you're out all the time".

I'm confused by it all because I KNOW I provoked the whole thing by being so selfish and arrogent. But, I'm still not sure if he would have hit me if I'd pushed him further and that bothers me.

I have apologised to but I'm now feeling wary of him which I never did before. Am I justified or as it was my own fault it got so bad, should I let it go?

The danger signals:

1. The language he used betrays an abnormal attitude. Not "please don't go out tonight, you promised you wouldn't, you're letting me down" or even "you shouldn't go out tonight, you are being unreliable and selfish" but "I'm not letting you go out tongiht." Normal men don't use that language of ownership with their partners.

1. This wasn't 1 incident, it was 2. He pushed the OP, then stopped pushing her and instead of realising with shock that he'd overstepped the line and apologising, he continued his intimidation of her by yelling. For me, that's a very clear signal that he hasn't "overstepped the line" "gone too far" etc., and stepped back from the brink, it's a very deliberate aggression technique which abusers use. The first few times they use it, they draw back from the brink of actually hitting you, but they continue to pursue the intimidation by verbal means and/ or body language, so the violence in the encounter is still being threatened. The OP then left the room, leaving the DP time to cool down. Instead of doing so, he then came upstairs and instead of using this second chance to apologise, as a normal man who had overstepped the mark would do, he launched into another verbal intimidation technique. He only apologised for the whole of the behaviour, when he realised he had got his own way.

1. Afterwards, he did not acknowledge that he had no right whatsoever to behave like that. When the OP asked him if he would have stopped her leaving, he said "probably not". In that probably, there is a threat, because once again, there is no acknowlegement that he had no right to stop the OP going out, probably or not.

1. He has a history of violence with other men. Most normal men don't.

I just think the warning signs are jumping around screaming with bells on, tbh. That's all they are - just warning signs - but I wouldn't ignore them.

PLEASE ignore that last post - something went wrong with C&P

I read that as:

1. The language he used betrays an abnormal attitude.

I agree - that is very dodgy.

1. This wasn't 1 incident, it was 2. He pushed the OP, then stopped pushing her and instead of realising with shock that he'd overstepped the line and apologising, he continued his intimidation of her by yelling. He then came upstairs and instead of using this second chance to apologise, he ...

Okay this is where we differ. I saw that as being shocked that he'd grabbed her but was still furious. So he shouted. Then he thought she went upstairs and totally ignored him and got ready to go out. So it's not really surprising that he was still angry.

1. Afterwards, he did not acknowledge that he had no right whatsoever to behave like that.

That is not true. He said
"i'm so sorry, I'm acting like a complete twat. Don't ever be frightened of me, I just miss you when you're out all the time".

1. He has a history of violence with other men. Most normal men don't.

I didn't read that in the OP and didn't realise the OP had posted again. I agree that if that is the case, there is a higher likelihood that he will be violent against his partner. But it is by no means certain. There are plenty of men who get into fights on a Saturday night that would no more dream of hitting a woman than they would dance the fandango. He didn't hit her. He grabbed her. And when she turned away, he grabbed her again. This to me is the sign of a man who is desperate. Who feels that he is totally ignored and treated like shit by his partner and that this is the only way he can get her attention. Because his talking to her hasn't worked has it? She's still totally ignored him, goes out pretty much every night and leaves him at home, looking after her kids.

I reiterate - if a woman who had posted that her partner had behaved in this way, I have no doubt that MN would have been telling her to kick him out.

As I said earlier, I do not for one moment condone the way he's behaved. Men should never use their physical size against a woman. BUT I also think she would have driven a saint to distraction and that they both need some work on how to go forward together. Is there any hope for them? Probably not. She has no respect for him as a person and he's crossed a line.

I read it like that spicemonster.

But I am quite prepared to beleive I am naive. Never having been subjected to anything like DV before.

I read some of this thread earlier and wanted to make a comment.
I was in a similar situation to you. I found a lovely man after a long period as a single mum. He instilled confidence in me and sat with my sons so I could have a social life and I did on occasion take the piss as I had no life before.
When our son was very very small he grabbed me by the throat. I come from a very violent background and he petrified me BUT and it is a big but I had been drinking and picked our son up. I do not like or would be with someone violent but we are all capable of things when pushed. I do think the op's partner showed contrition and I do think talking to him would help.
I would NEVER condone violence..... I do think under the circumstances though a second chance wouldn't hurt.

wannabe ..oof ..your post makes me feel very uncomfortable.

Why?

Hmm, a second chance might hurt actually - might hurt quite a lot.

Look, I agree with you, sometimes people overstep the mark and go too far. They horrify themselves, they take responsibility for their behaviour, they don't make excuses, they make damn sure it never happens again and they go on to make decent, happy relationships with the person they once overstepped the mark with. But that only happens where full acknowledgement and ownership of that behaviour occurs, and I don't think that has happened here. Of course he has said sorry - abusers always do at first, otherwise they'd be dumped. But sorry means coming up with concrete proposals as to how to ensure that this behaviour never occurs again: and if that concrete proposal is dependent on the behaviour of the OP, then it's worthless. (Quite aside from which I am wondering if the OP is all that into her DP - what's the mileage in being with someone who you're not that into, who scares you?)

I agree with wannabe
I said in an earlier post that I had punched my dh on the arm once.
I was so ashamed after. I just felt I was at a breaking point.
BUT, if he had done the same to me I would have left him.

Interesting points @ wannabee/purpleduck

Purpleduck, did your DH feel afraid of you afterwards? Did he change his behaviour? Did he adopt more cautious/ wary behaviour / speech around you so as not to provoke you to do it again?

DV is about control and power. Did your behaviour give you more of both over your DH?

I would give him a second chance. But it would be one and one only. I don't feel I have enough information to tell me if he has been truly contrite. But then I have no evidence that she is trying to be a better partner either.

Actually, I kind of wonder whether this is a troll. The 3 nights a week doing a course that's just for fun seems a bit too set up to me. The clues are all too carefully laid.

LOL. She has prompted an interesting discussion if so.

True

Custardo, I completely agree with you. Even if the OP is a troll(?)....this thread has highlighted how little we agree on the whole DV/DA debate.
I think this is why funding for services often excludes DA in favour of DV, which horrifies me quite frankly.
I experienced years (and years) of DA (the DV was well hidden) and 10 years ago I found it hard to get any support. I thought things would have moved on but perhaps not .
People are quick to shout DV regarding one instance which almost approached the physical, but they will think long and hard over long term systematic controlling and debasing behaviour.
A pattern of behaviour which includes economic, emotional, sexual abuse can be extremely damaging but one solitary loss of self control (i'm not saying it was right or justified) in an otherwise reasonable man is judged to be infinitly worse.
The OP said this man encouraged her and built up her confidence and was happy to take responsibility for childcare to enable her to have an active social life but on the one occasion when he was needy he was (IMHO, cruelly) disregarded.

He did try and reason with me. I had been drinking and he was scared. I am trying to highlight that everyone has a limit. He was disgusted by his behaviour but I honestly think I drove him to it. He is a good, placid and kind man. He just made a mistake.

Sorry wannabe I had to get off the computer for the evening to sort out stuff. Really I think Dittany has explained why it may me feel uncomfortable. I think grabbing someone by the throat is absolutely extreme behaviour. Grabbing you by the waist, arm, leg even would be less confrontational.

I take your point about everyone has a limit, but reading your post made me feel uncomfortable. I dont have the full picture of your relationship and therefore I find his actions hard to reconcile.

Wow Wannabe10 (are you the same person as WannaBe?) I can't believe you think it's ok for a man to grab you by the neck and you say you drove him to it!

YOU ARE IN DENIAL...

Salem1 thinks that the women who are in denial about being on the rough end of an agressive man "make interesting points"
Interesting is not the word. Disturbing and depressing are 2 more apt words.

Now you see I don't actually think the OP was necessarily being selfish by being out several nights a week.

Dh is out several nights a week (Kendo practice, band rehearsal, gigs) & that's fine. Dc in bed, dh goes out. I also quite routinely go off for nights out or weekends away.

Fair enough for OP's dp to ask her to stay in for a takeaway & video night.

Maybe a bit off for her to decide she'd rather go out with mates, & I would probably have told the friends I'd do that another time tbh, but a) it's not as if she was blowing out their 25th anniversary dinner & b) that's no excuse for pinning her to a wall & scaring the sh*t out of her anyway.

His behaviour's utterly unacceptable & abusive.

Hers is arguably thoughtless & inconsiderate but no worse.

I find it quite worrying that anyone might suggest that she should apologise. To me, that would feel like legitimising his violence.

interesting...bump?

That's what you need to believe if you're in that kind of relationship. Cos if you faced up to the blindingly obvious truth that violence is UNacceptable, then it would make you a doormat muppet for staying, right? So you have to rationalise it.

I know, I did it. For a few years.

What if you're violent enough to murder the person that provoked you with abuse?

That would seem to be a good reason for getting out quick, Salem.