Is this passive aggressive? Really need some advice here.

[confusedandangry]

First I will give you an example. On the train the other day, I peeled an orange and divided it into segments to give to my two year old dd. As I was doing so my h pulled a disgusted face and muttered "Oh dear, lets find a bin for this shall we?" meaning the peel still on the table and shuddered. When I told him I was about to put it in the bin he said smilingly "Well its a bit disgusting and dirty to leave it there isn't it?", shaking his head as though really surprised someone could be quite so disgusting as I was being.

Today we went out shopping for New Year and he offered to take us for lunch. I was really pleased and said with enthusiasm "Oh Great". After about 5 minutes he said "Didnt you and the kids go out for lunch yesterday?" (me and dc had been away at my parents), I said No we hadnt and looked disbelieving and then said "Really?" I again replied that we hadn't and then he smirked at me and said "Come on, look I don't want to be taking the dc out for lunch two days in a row, just tell me the truth". I was telling the farkin truth!

This is just two examples of things he does like this. I feel like I am going nuts. When we got home he went straight to bed and when I tried to speak to him about it he said "how dare you try to blame this on me, stop bullying me, I want to go to sleep" and refused to say another word to me. These things seem so small and silly and I feel silly writing them down but after these episodes I feel so angry and stressed out, I literally feel sick with anger. We have been together for 8 years and he does this kind of thing quite a lot, probably monthly. Is there a name for this? Anyone else experience this sort of thing? Or am I totally overreacting? Thank you.

Liffy I don't think for one second he sees you as weak. He is fuming that he can't get at you thats all.

Yes I guess the only way of ensuring the digs in front of the DC's don't happen, is not to give them the opportunity by not being there in person.

Seeing you as "weak" is his way of rationalising it. Of course he's never going to face up to the fact that you are withdrawing your presence in orderr to prevent him behaving inappropriately.

Yes LittleBella and CAA, I had the right to leave him, and I have the right not to be in his company. I know that. I suppose I want him to know that too, but that's one I have to let go of.

Liffey, I'm thinking when ex gets his hands on another victim then he might move on. Altho he has a g/f he still keeps making anonymous phone calls, telling everyone he doesn't want a divorce, refusing to sign the divorce papers, and then the memorable time he sent gangsters to my uncles house in the middle of the night to persuade my uncle to make me stop divorce proceedings...... The bizarre thing is, during our marriage he kept informing me I was so very lucky to have him, as I was too ugly, skinny and short and stupid for anyone else to ever want me.
It's control I suppose, he's pissed off my life is obviously happier and he has no control over me anymore ever. I anticipate my girls will at some point refuse to see him too, my eldest was recently ill and kept waking up i nthe night screaming she didn't want to see him and to please dont make her go to him. It's the effect on my children the tears me up.

I reckon the way to cope with it is to accept that they have their own version of reality. They see themselves as victims, and think their behaviour is normal. When challenged they will deny and make stuff up. The one I knew could swear black was white.

So to accept that they will not change is the way forward. What CAN change is how you allow it to affect you. That is a major lesson I think - you have to let go of a lot of feelings of resentment and desire for them to get their come-uppance - maybe they never will.

And yes - moving on to another victim is often what takes them off your hands. The one I know of did. Sorry for her, but glad he's gone.

Hi Liffy, ive been away from him for 9 years now but for the first couple of years I kept thinking it was me and that he was just 'upset' - mainly because whatever I said he would scream 'you don't think the children love me' which wrongfooted me totally as a) they do b) I know they do and c) I frequently said that I know they do.

Crunch really came when I set some serious boundaries but it took a long time before I could do that and wished I'd done it earlier. He took me to court over contact with the children and we got sent to mediation. Since he wouldn't say in court what he wanted just that 'he wanted a contact order' I insisted in mediation that we sat in separate rooms and the mediator alternated - this meant that he couldn't do his usual stuff and the only thing he could come up with was that he didn't want to ring the children as much as 'he didn't always feel like it'! He just wanted an order as I think he had convinced himself the court would tell me I was mad and bad!

Second thing that set boundaries was that he used to ring me and scream the same sentence over and over - initially I used to try and reason with him but then I got cross one day and called the police who warned him for harassment. Best thing I ever did - these men often work on the basis that no-one else knows what they're like - and I've not had that problem since!

I made some serious mistakes when we first split - eg offering to share care with the children 50/50 which they hated and suffered from until it was sorted three months later (they live with me and go to his every other weekend and some holiday times) - feel very guilty about that as didn't see clearly what was happening at all and he's done some quite awful things to them.

However, things are reasonably peaceful at the moment as he's got a new wife and he's moved on to persecuting her ex (his ex best friend!) in all the nasty manipulative ways he can think of - so yes he has sort of moved on. However, I still would not feel comfortable talking to him face-to-face but I guess that says as much about me and my inadequacies (sp) as him and his behaviour.

Thanks girls. I guess I set boundaries earlier which has been a real hurdle, but I hope it is just getting the hard part over sooner rather than later. He is literally stewing in his righteous indignation though.

I left 18 months ago and as recently as 3 months ago he sent my parents a nasty letter strongly urging them to persuade me to go back!! My mum just laughed at it and said he's mad the poor man. She has some pity for him. She's too bloody nice imo.

I wish he'd meet somebody else, but at the moment I don't know how he could fool anybody he was normal, even for the first few months long enough to 'reel' somebody in iyswim.

Glad things are relatively peaceful for you at the moment. Tbh, things are relatively peaceful for me too right now. He did try and take me to court at one point, but (I'm guessing here) his solicitor must have cooled his jets a little. My solicitor responded and then there was one more letter from his solicitor to say he wasn't pursuing legal action! phew!

I doidn't mix them in the same glass Fuzzy Tjough that sounds like an interesting expereiment. Maybe I'll save that for next NY.

Cheers Kate. No hard feelinsg

Well, as a result of this thread (and the fact that H went off to London last night on urgent work business after first hiding his wedding ring in his bedside drawer - wtf??) I've now told 2 people what's been happening in my life. They are shocked, one friend offered to get straight in her car and drive the 3 hours to get to me.

MIL happened to phone straight afterwards and I broke down on the phone to her, just sobbed that H had been horrible recently but it wasn't fair to go into too many details. I know she was totally shocked even though we'd had a chat yesterday. I wonder if she is about to turn up on my doorstep.

It's funny, the support so far has been amazing. It turns out all sorts of people have been concerned about me - my best friend's mum has even been round to see me (she knows I am unwell but no details) and her kindness almost made me cry again.
I'm a bit scared at the momentum that I've got going..

sotr - he went off on urgent work business on a FRIDAY night WITHOUT his wedding ring? Oh dear - that's not good is it. Stay strong and just keep thinking about what you and your children need and desrve.

why would he take his wedding ring off?

does he often do that ?

This is just like my ex .In the end I realised there was nothing I could do because he just wouldn't accept responsibility for his own behaviour.
I got out last year and with alot of support from womens aid have a much better life than when we were together .
It is true as soon as you try to discuss anything important with these people they drag you back in and bully you out of your feelings.
It was like everything was a competition with him and if anything good ever happened to me he would knock it straight out of me .
He truely did try to rob me of my soul.
These men don't change because they don't take any responsibility.

It isn't that unusual at the moment because of ds2 - H takes his wedding ring off to go to bed (as do I) - sometimes ds2 comes in and plays with it, dropping it behind the bed or such like so if h leaves early and it's too dark to search for it in the morning, he goes without wearing it for the day or week if he's away with work.

YEsterday I found it under the bed and replaced it on top (right at the back) of the cabinet so he'd see it when he packed his things to go away overnight. I later mentioned to him on the phone that I'd found it, had he seen it and he muttered something. I later had a funny feeling about it, went to the drawer and there it was. I felt sick.

The weekend work could well be legitimate. He's spun a plausible story around it. Ds2 could have possibly put the ring in the drawer. Had a sleepless night wondering what the truth really is.

Now also wondering about a condom (wrapped!) which once turned up in the washing machine drum. At the time I obviously thought it odd but didn't automatically think foul play- it was put down to ds2 having fished it out of an upstairs drawer and put it in the washing machine for some reason. At the time I accepted that as the only logical explanation (not that it had come out of a jeans pocket, as may well have been the case), now I am seriously wondering!!!

You think you know someone. I would have never believed I would ever write this post about my husband. It's as if he's been possessed.

Bodgejob you are so right...

sotr, I don't want to add any more doubt than you are already feeling but is this weekend working away for real?

can you check his whereabouts at all?

ring his work/boss on some pretext eg. child is ill

if I am out of line, sorry, of course I don't know your lifestyle and his work patterns, or even what he does for a living, but to need to go away for work over what is still a holiday weekend for many seems unusual

personally, I would ring the home of this woman you have mentioned. Tell her you found a scarf at your home after she left and wondered if it was hers?

what a coincidence if she was also "working away" this weekend

I have just found this site and joined immediately after reading this discussion.
How I wish these conversations had been available to me years ago!
My ex DH gave me an ultimatum in '95. He said if I didn't inform my parents they were no longer welcome in my life then he would have no choice but to leave me. In the lead up to this I had challenged his assertion that I only had our DC to provide me with a mealticket by saying I could earn more money if he let me and also I would have family money coming to us upon my parents demise. Talk about "confused and angry" - I married him in '81 and had spent years trying to placate his anger and appease him. It was at this point I realised I could do no more to help the situation and sadly informed him of that.
It was only then that the furies of hell were truely unleashed. Suffice to say that I wasn't free of him until the children were grown up (my youngest is just 18 now).
To anyone contemplating escape, I would say read and reread the advice on the links here and plan carefully and secretly, then aim for no contact. The mindgames, terror and legal and financial hurdles that I faced were beyond my imagination.
My ex DH also tried to estrange me from my parents by poisoning them against me. Although it all came out before they died, the tension between us was never fully resolved. I had no idea that he was talking to them for years after our divorce until they exploded in response to the lies he told them about me. He said after our marriage that I believed that life was happy, happy, happy and he was going to show me it was not. He was a man true to his threats but since I have no further reason to contact him I have made a truely happy life for myself and now have all the security I need.
To all the poster here - good luck and never beat yourself up for being unable to work these monsters out - they are unfathomable to any normal mind.

Lessonlearned- welcome to mumsnet! You sound like you had a truly horrific time, but I'm glad you have found some happiness and can pass on your experience....look forward to seeing you around!

lesson welcome and thank you
I am afraid those are my deepest fears - am filing for divorce on monday and once I do I fear things will get much much worse - but I am prepared if terrified !

Cheers B-O-F, Aye, it was a journey and it truely gained me a wealth of experience! Glad to have found MN now though.

I was lucky.
Back in '86 I was engaged to an emotional abuser but I didn't have the vocabulary to pinpoint my feelings. I knew he created frustration for me for the entertainment value. I listened to the voice deep, deep down and broke it off-"just to skip the divorce" - I had an overwhelming feeling that the frustration this man was creating for me just wasn't something I was going to volunteer for -for the rest of my life.
I think of him quite often but in the context that I thank God every day that I did not marry him .
confusedandangry, I predict, (if I may) that you will not ever, ever, ever regret leaving him and you may kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

As for the children, I feel something needs to be "mentioned" from your point of view to give foundation to context for them, as children can have expansive imaginations. They will sense when things are not "right".
Acknowledge children's feelings for their validation-they have a right to their feelings and to be taught that their feelings are appropriate for the offense put on them. "Daddy hurt your feelings, didn't he? Sometimes he can be really mean." That isn't judgemental, imho, just a statement of fact.

well he's back from his trip away. He's being all caring towards me as I'm not well at all and he obviously feels guilty for leaving me to struggle today. He put the ring in the drawer - apparently to keep it from ds2. Why it didn't go on his finger he didn't explain.

Told him that I've talked to his parents - he kept asking to know what I've said, I just replied that I'd been fairly open with them which got him looking very sheepish.

anyfucker, I didn't have the other woman's tel no - tbh I'm not even sure of her surname as I've only met her twice in three years. I presume her number is on H's mobile which is surgically attached to him at all times. She lives very near to his work though, so could easily have met him, or could see him any time he's working away.

so sorry SOTR, I really really don't want to worry you

but you sound like you are putting your head in the sand

she came for dinner at your house but you don't have a contact no. or even know her surname?

sort that out, now

and dig a little deeper

lessonlearned, what a nightmare you have lived through

don't want to go into detail, but many yrs ago had a boyfriend who was was very skilled at manipulation, cheating and undermining

thankfully, on the day he told me that I could not undertake my degree course at uni, I finally woke up and dumped the twat (had undergone a long period of humiliation before that btw )

many times since then, I have woken at 3am in a cold sweat about how different my life could be now