Is this passive aggressive? Really need some advice here.

[confusedandangry]

First I will give you an example. On the train the other day, I peeled an orange and divided it into segments to give to my two year old dd. As I was doing so my h pulled a disgusted face and muttered "Oh dear, lets find a bin for this shall we?" meaning the peel still on the table and shuddered. When I told him I was about to put it in the bin he said smilingly "Well its a bit disgusting and dirty to leave it there isn't it?", shaking his head as though really surprised someone could be quite so disgusting as I was being.

Today we went out shopping for New Year and he offered to take us for lunch. I was really pleased and said with enthusiasm "Oh Great". After about 5 minutes he said "Didnt you and the kids go out for lunch yesterday?" (me and dc had been away at my parents), I said No we hadnt and looked disbelieving and then said "Really?" I again replied that we hadn't and then he smirked at me and said "Come on, look I don't want to be taking the dc out for lunch two days in a row, just tell me the truth". I was telling the farkin truth!

This is just two examples of things he does like this. I feel like I am going nuts. When we got home he went straight to bed and when I tried to speak to him about it he said "how dare you try to blame this on me, stop bullying me, I want to go to sleep" and refused to say another word to me. These things seem so small and silly and I feel silly writing them down but after these episodes I feel so angry and stressed out, I literally feel sick with anger. We have been together for 8 years and he does this kind of thing quite a lot, probably monthly. Is there a name for this? Anyone else experience this sort of thing? Or am I totally overreacting? Thank you.

CAA if further proof were needed that he is abusive the way he physically pushes you around is it. So for you, and dragging your daughter into it too.

Am reading the rest of this thread and CAA your post of 9:25:44 rings very true with me too with regards Xh. Long periods of passiveness and being kind, helpful, considerate etc etc and then out of the blue over some thing quite inane,bang would come the snidy comment e.g "well that's just typical of you isn't it" or "now what are you doing" said with exasperation.
After a while you start not trusting the good times because you're waiting to see where the next attack will come from.

dittany, I think you're right about all the little horrible things adding up to a big feeling of misery.

fuzzywuzzy, I feel I'm in a similar situation to the one you're in.
We discussed things again today and it was horrible, me crying, him annoyed and very defensive. Basically his attitude to domestic abuse is that it's hitting, punching etc. He seems confident he'll never behave like that and I am as well - most of the time. But he seems to feel the little things matter less and aren't classed as abuse.

For example I asked him if once a month a man shouted and sneered at his partner, made her feel stupid or was contemptuous towards her, or slammed things around, whether that would be abuse. He agreed that it 'wasn't very nice' behaviour, but disagreed it was abuse. I said that it probably would be considered emotional abuse, or something close approaching it. He was all "well, that's just your opinion". Then we had a nasty little digression about objective moral standards and whether things are ever definitely right or wrong or whether they are merely different peoples opinion. He accused me of being condescending and mean by mentioned I had studied the idea of human rights, objective truth and stuff during my recent philosophy course OU. EVENTUALLY he brushed me off with "Okay, so it's awful and I have to change or it's adios, fine. Good to know where we stand." but not like he meant it or gave a shit IYSWIM. He's basically waiting til we get an appointment with Relate, saying that he doesn't want to start making changes meantime in case he does the wrong thing. I asked me if he couldn't at least treat me with respect until we saw a counsellor, if he was only going to listen to what they said and not me.

It worries me how sneering he becomes when I challenge him. I have bullied people in the past, fleetingly. Like as a kid at school or with younger friends. I remember the feeling of 'dammit - foiled!' when called on that behaviour. I was mostly on the receiving end of bullying as a child and young person, but I do know how irritating it can be when you are the bully and people stop you from doing what you want, i.e pushing them around, however subtly. You feel like your idiocy is being exposed, and you loathe the one doing it. It makes me scared to challenge him because he just gets angry and cruel, and I hate conflict. But I know that's all part of it, and you shouldn't be scared of your partner, however indirectly.

And he's so NICE, funny and kind most of the time, I feel like I'm imagining these odd incidents, or making a big fuss. I know this is approaching emotional abuse, but I don't know if it's actually there. Some parts of descriptions about it ring true, a lot of it he used to do sometimes but doesn't now. In a way, I almost regret confronting him BEFORE going to Relate, because he's already toned it down quite a bit. Like he's making an effort, but for the wrong reasons. Sorry for hijacking the thread but I really needed to vent.
Shit day all round, really.

And just now...

Him: What'cha doing?

Me: I'm MNing

Him: Oh, I see. Lot of typing, that was all!

I feel like everything I do is under joking scrutiny. It's like I'm just this stupid unfunny person who can't take a joke.But if you remove the humorous tone some of the things sound awful.

Whoops, Fuzzywuzzy I meant the situation you WERE in.

And Citronella, I agree. It poisons the good times, in the end - waiting for the next bad thing.

I think ex's behaviour can be summed up in this one incident.

I went shopping and he'd given me I think about £20, it was to get food in, and during the shop I came across the new toblerone fruit bar (I adore chocolate, it's the one way to my heart), I bought it.
At home he then went through the shopping list and pulled me up on the chocolate bar, it really escalated, he told me I would get fat (remember I was 6stone then and at 5'3" not anywhere near fat). In the end I gave him 75p or whatever it cost back to him, and he went off on a huge one about how petty I was..... to this day I cannot bear toblerones I never ate that damn chocolate bar in the end, and I'd lugged all the groceries home on the bus as I don't drive (he wouldnt let me learn) not thanx for that.

I never got any thanx or acknowledgement for bringing up two aboslutely gorgeous little girls, for cooking and cleaning and working and paying for most things in the house, I spent stupid money buying him thoughtful expensive gifts whilst we were married trying to buy his love and approval. In all that time he never once got me a single flower ever..... God I was so stupid....

It took me 16 years to muster up the energy and willpower to get out. For years I thought I was making too much of a big deal and things could get better. For some time I began to believe it was me and my childhood abuse issues (as he kept reminding me even though I had long buried memories of that in an otherwise lovely childhood). Relate, trial separations and the fact that so much of the time he could be so nice. Anyway the decider was the night when I took the physical abuse for the last time.

Of course I'm the aggressive one, the bully, the controller ...

fuzzywuzzy, for you it was a toblerone, for me it was a sieve. Like you I couldn't drive because I failed the test and he wouldn't pay for more lessons, and wouldn't put me on the insurance of his car because it was too expensive. the arse earns about 80k a year. I was cooking for 6 (other four his brothers and mum) and I needed a bigger sieve. I'd been running around like a blue arse fly trying to get all the ingredients and I spend 12quid on a sieve. He was furious. I defended myself saying I knew it was expensive but that I really didn't have time to go to five different shops doing price comparisons. He went on and on and on and on about that sieve, right up until I left him, he would regularly mention that fucking sieve again.

And I am the wicked one for leaving. I had 'everything' I could have wanted apparently.

You know it's because all of the stuff seems petty that it's hard to get out. Like others my ex could be fine for a long time and it seemed as though I was imagining things.

For me what apparently was a number of small things (which by the way I never talked to anyone about - first mistake I think!) suddenly became clear as showing me that he didn't actually care about me and my feelings and saying he loved me but actually showing no sign of that.

Little things (but things that mattered to me) would be eg. - I was expected to go to a business dinner as the supporting wife but he would not tell them that I was vegetarian despite being reminded many many times so I'd get served meat (really a big deal for me). If I said anything I'd be the one 'blowing things out of proportion because everyone forgets things' - well yes people do forget but they apologise and when someone only ever 'forgets' things that are important to you (as in they don't forget other things) it does give you a clear message after a while that you're not important - but then that's exactly what it's designed to do I think.

It is hard to break free and you need support - the first step to this I think is to tell everyone you trust in real life what is happening - as you can see from the reponses here lots of people recognise manipulative behaviour and the more people who know the less easy it is for these men to make you think you're imagining things.
For me I am eternally grateful to my gp who recognised what was happening and devoted a huge amount of her time to supporting me and telling me that I was tired but Sane!

I later found out that she had had a similar partner herself and recognised the 'symptoms'!

To cheerful vicky

I just want to mention that my ex would be at his most intimidating and horrible if I tried to address his behaviour. He would tell me that 'everyone thinks you're wrong/mad/ whatever' and follow me around the house shaking his finger in my face until I would apologise thinking that somehow I had said something to upset him.

Now I can see how weird it was and yet at the time I thought I was imagining it- One time shortly before we split he had started shouting at me as I had paid a bill that he didn't think was a priority. I was feeling a bit bolshy and said well if money is such a problem why don't you get the bus to work then instead of a taxi - well he went wild rushing up to me and shaking his fist in my face, screaming how dare you say that - on and on for ages. I was scared and intimidated - the children were crying - and I apologised for upsetting him - how mad is that? He then apologised to the children and sat cuddling them as 'I' had upset them.

This happened ten years ago and I'm crying writing this as it was so awful - I've never regretted splitting from him and never missed him. A friend of mine did me a huge favour - she asked me what I was getting out of the relationship and when I couldn't think of anything I knew it was time to get out.

Never think you're overestimating the so-called 'petty' things - they can add up and make your life unbearable - and also so what if it is petty - why should you have to put up with it?

Sorry this is a bit long and I'm usually just a lurker here but it's so sad that others are going through what I did and I really wish they weren't.

I'm a bit gobsmacked by how much of this there is about. I'd put some of H's behaviour down to being a bit alpha male but reading all of your experiences I can now see that it's gone past that and that the little snidey comments can add up to a miserable existence. I even find myself being a bit more clumsy when he's around as I'm trying so hard not to be if that makes sense.. if I knock anything over or drop anything accidentally I know I'll get snapped at. If he's looking for anything round the house I can feel my stress levels shooting up as I know he'll start getting stroppy about it. I hate it when he has to put together anything flat pack, or a picture up as he gets so arsey about it.

I've confided in a RL friend who has been amazing. Her DH also knows (I get on with him really well) and said that it seemed as if I'd lost a bit of my spirit recently. They are really rallying round to help me so it's encouraged me to get in touch with another friend who has been through similar. I feel like I can finally start to talk about it now I know what I'm dealing with and it's not just in my mind.

Kate, I had that as well. My x followed me round the house to verbally abuse me, infront of the children, with that jabbing finger poking me really roughly. Like you, by the sounds of it, I wasn't suffiently afraid of him for his liking, and I would argue back some of the time, (agreeing with him for a quiet life also had the potential to annoy him, though, as he still knew what I was thinking and could fly off the handle merely because of what I was thinking) anyway, this led to him physically holding my mouth shut and leaving finger shaped bruises over my mouth. He claims this did not happen. He kicked down the door of the bathroom to continue ranting at me, not once but twice, but just like your x, blamed me for upsetting him, and later comforted our daughter and said 'mummy is not well'.

Sickofthisrain, I hope the month goes quicker than you think it will. come back and vent on here.

Sickofthisrain, you'll get your spirit back again! After I left, it was a rollercoaster and so hard sorting everything out... but I have back a spring in my step now! There is no size 13 boot on MY soul anymore.

It is fabulous when you're out of it.

I've suddenly discovered the intoxicating freedom of not having to ask permission to do things, and not being constantly terrified that altho I do have permission to go out I will return to a furious monster at home and be accused of all sorts.

It's actually very pleasant re-discovering me, working out my likes and dislikes, 11 years of 'compromising' (read agreeing to anything for a quiet life) I completely lost me.

Right now it's me and my girls and I am enjoying every minute of it.

I don;'t know about passive agresive but he's got the hump about something

THat pointing business sounds horrid. We've never had any of the physical stuff, it's all verbal and for all his faults I can't see that changing.
I think he probably realises that it would cross the line into something far more tangible than what's happening at the moment.

I know fuzzy, it's great isn't it?? I'm sure I'm one of the people that f&z, another poster on another thread, thinks is 'divorce-trigger-happy' but I can't help it. I see no reason to advise a woman to waste MORE years on a man like this.

If it were ONLY an affair, a normally decent man who had up til his affair treated his wife with respect, but had been tempted and strayed, then I would be LESS likely to say divorce the fucker, and that's the truth.

Maybe you need to work out of this is a bad patch and work through it or if there are deeper incompatablities? If he doesn't like you for some reason - or maybe he thinks he doesn't love you - he's bound to be struggling with that and it might be expressing itself in his sarcasm and hostility. People, and that includes men, rarely do things just for the sake of them. There is usually some struggle at the centre of it.

I know it's hard when they are being iunreasonable, but situaltiuons like this need someone to take the adult role - and not gloat about it either. You need to talk to him, and more impirtanly, listen - try to find out what is wrong and if there is somehting you can both do - or not. You have a reason in your children to weork at this and try not to fall for the laziest explanation - that he is simply a bastard. They are honesty very rare. But you maybe need to take the heat off the realtionship at the mo and just try and be friends? Any cycle of accusation and blame weill just ensure things escalate for the worse very rapidly. You owe it to yourself to know what's really going on emotioanlly here. Good luck.

That's exactly how I feel Liffey, sometimes I wonder if I've turned into a man hating bitch, but the truth is having been there and seeing signs of the same happening to other women makes me want to scream, expecting a man like that to change (and maybe he will) is just too much of a chance to take and then what kind of effect is it having on children caught in the cross fire? And how long is patience and perseverance supposed to be advocated, till he snaps and kills you, till you snap and try and kill him, till you throw yourself under a train what's the point where it's fair enough to say run head for the hills???

monkey you are so wrong you have NO idea
My H's affair TBh was the least of it, baby with OW likewise - the fact that somehow it was all my fault was far worse - that I was worthless and unloveable, repulsive and disgusting, showed him no affection and out him down all that was far far worse!!
And yes I did blame myself tried and tried and tried (like the fucking adult jee thanks for that monkey) - till in the end I got a slap for my trouble (because he thought I had another man) and finger marks on both arms because it was his right to have sex with me !!!! Yes monkey I am sure he is troubled but not for one second longer am I going to blame myself for that or waste another minute of my life on him!

i,ve never been in this position but sounds to me the man is beyond books!the man is crushing you,sucking the life out of you hes a arsehole!he must be a total loser who can only make himself feel better about himself by putting you down and making your life hell!why should you not see your family?no thats because he wants total control of you then he can do what he want.i,d get out and get out quickly i know thats easier said than done but you should,nt have to live your life like it.and the whole stairs thing and with the buggy!?he wants to hurt youhe is using your dd in is mind games too you don,t want her growning up and thinking a man like him is the norm.i really feel for you but it sounds like your strong

Mcdoodle, I have no idea why you think I was addressing you. I was addressing the OP, re the OP.

MT, how do you propose to build a friendship with someone who has such a serious resentment of you that he can't stop himself criticising and undermining you and then when you challenge him on it, denying that he is doing it?

I don't think the OP needs to be told that her children are a reason to work at her relationship. That is unbelievably patronising actually. Her children are one of the reasons she shouldn't put up with this appallingly abusive behaviour. I think we need to give each other the respect of assuming that we've taken the welfare of our children into account when deciding what to do about our relationships, don't you?

You know monkeytrousers I don't think you quite get it - women in these types of relationships DO listen and Do try and talk about it - thats when men who are passive agressive tend to be more than passive unfortunately. Its not possible to have a reasonable conversation if you say to your partner 'I feel ....' and they start screaming in your face that you've a) let them down, b) don't understand them or c) any other statement that brings the conversation around to their needs and feelings. If you persist they then become increasingly intimidating and aggressive OR they tell you that you are imagining everything and that you don't really think what you say you are thinking.

Couple the above with a man who to other people is sweetness and light, and often will be nice to you in front of others - my ex was not unreasonable usually in front of other people - and you have a recipe for subsuming your own needs to someone else constantly - where's the relationship in that?
It's crazy-making behaviour and does not respond to one person being 'grown-up' unless of course you mean letting everything the other person does to you not affect you which I don't see as possible or grown-up really!

I didn't see my ex as violent when I was with him but I was still terrified of the way that he could make me feel as if I was losing my mind and had no framework of reality - that's why it's so important to talk to others so that you realise that life for most people is not like this.