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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

FAB & GLAM PART 8 - Onwards and Upwards!

1009 replies

ginnny · 18/09/2008 12:16

8000 posts - how do we find so much to talk about

OP posts:
Tanee58 · 14/11/2008 21:55

Well I'm home now and don't know what's going on. Haven't seen DP since he went to work this morning. DD's out with friends, which is great, & DP has only just come in but seems to be avoiding me. Hasn't even stuck his head round the living room door, just gone straight to the kitchen and closed the door and now seems to be stamping around in the bedroom. With any luck he'll go to bed. I guess he's gone into one of his depressions and has spent the evening in the pub, but I'm not chasing after him to ask him where he's been or why he didn't do me the courtesy to tell me he was going to be late. We went into all that in Relate weeks ago and he acknowledged he wouldn't like it if I did this to him, but here we are and he's doing it again. He can come to me when he chooses. I'm just not in the mood for being sweet tonight, nor yet picking an argument. Just feeling empty and slightly sick. Frankly my dear, just at this moment I am too tired to give a damn .

Tanee58 · 14/11/2008 23:09

Yep, he'd gone to bed. Presumably been drinking most of the evening. I'm off to collect DD now -tempting to sleep in the spare room again, except it's cold - and plan to do NOTHING about him tomorrow. If he oversleeps, he can stew - though I suspect he's got Brenda with him this time (it's what we call his phone alarm, as she sounds like a dominatrix). If he does wake up in time for work, I shall be glad to see him go as I really don't fancy spending this Saturday in his company.

Ginnny, am thinking of you to give me hope that things might improve. How is your DP these days?

Dior · 14/11/2008 23:31

Message withdrawn

ladylush · 15/11/2008 08:27

Oh Tanee , but you did make me laugh. You can be very witty Hope he makes it up to you and your dd. He is very lucky that you suffer him in the way you do. I like the idea of the effigy I am ok thanks. I went to the gp yesterday and my thyroid is going hyper now rather than hypo so I'm hoping this explains some of my irritability - or I can use pregnancy as an excuse! I'm going for a scan end of next week. I just want to know that it's viable. I still feel pg and I don't have the bloating that I had last time when I had a mmc - so just hoping all is ok. I woke up this morning thinking of last christmas and then remembered h was shagging ow around that time, then my birthday in January....yaddah yaddah. Self-indulgent really cos I think overall I have moved on.

Baffy - I would like a dd too but honestly after all the problems I've had keeping a pregnancy I will gladly take a ds if that's what I get. Plus they can share a room which means we keep our box room But I do confess to looking longingly at girls dresses when I go shopping.

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend

macdoodle · 15/11/2008 10:31

Sorry all bit stressed at mo and teething poorly baby not sleeping not helping!
Thoughts to pregnant G+Fs I remember how hard it is the hormone seem to stir up all sorts of thoughts
Know there were some questions afraid my medic head is sleep befuddled at the mo - umm food well I will find a link to the DOH guidelines but I ate EVERYTHING with DD2 TBH (including sushi, pate and the odd coffee and glass of wine) was neurotic with DD1 though
LL hope all is ok - overactive thyroid not that unusual in pregnancy!
Tanee Am sorry but he sounds like a self indulgent spoilt child - your DD sounds far more mature than him and HE is the adult in their relationship!! You are amazing TBH and I dont think he deserves you - but I guess the same could be said for all of us
Dior you sound a bit better are the AD's kicking in??
Right off for a coffee and a bath to try and wake up a bit while poor DD2 has a well needed nap

Dior · 15/11/2008 13:39

Message withdrawn

Tanee58 · 15/11/2008 13:53

Thanks girls. Last night I felt like I was in a void - tried phoning a couple of rl friends and both were away for the weekend - so no chance of turning up on their doorsteps. I picked up DD & her friend at the station, & they'd bought a pizza - so we parked in a quiet, tree-lined road nearby and ate pizza, had a good winge about men & watched foxes wandering about in the early hours. Her friend is very bright & funny and we agreed we'd had a better time than they'd had with their own schoolmates earlier .

DD & I sat up till 2am. She's very unimpressed with DP now - she was very funny telling her friend about how she was in the middle of a laugh over Robin Williams' outrageous upstaging of Graham Norton, when DP picked up the control - she thought he was just moving it to reach a CD - and switched off the TV. I still can't believe he just did that. She told me that, as I knew, she used to hate him when her father left, then grew to revise her opinion and quite like him. But over the last 2 years she's gone from liking him, to thinking he's a complete git. I admitted that, at this moment, I am finding it difficult to sustain any sympathy for him. I could if he would only seek help, but not when he KNOWS there's a problem, but carries on repeating and repeating his self-destructive behaviour - he's undone all the work we did to build a good relationship with DD, and sadly, I'm now feeling my own love for him drying up.

When I finally went to bed, I presume I woke him - after about 10 minutes he just got up, took Brenda and his dressing gown and departed to the spare room. And for the first time in this relationship, I resisted the urge to say something, thought to myself oh good, I get more space to spread out, and - eventually - went to sleep.

This morning he just came down from dressing, said morning darling ('darling'? my arse!) and 'see you later' as he left. And I said nothing, could bare look at him, didn't kiss him or wave him off, just carried on making my tea.

Oh, and he'd dumped all his newly washed shirts from the spare bed onto the floor - and one of the cats had thrown up a huge hairball all over one of them . Apart from that shirt (he'd probably thrown the cats out if he knew, so it's in the wash now) - I have weeded out all his clothes from the laundry basket, will pull out his grotty old laundry holder from the cupboard, and dump all his dirties in that. I'm not picking up after him any more, except to keep the house tidy. I'm not playing little wifey anymore. He can do his own laundry and washing up - and I'm tempted to leave him to cook for himself too. If he chooses to think that DD and I are a family and he's an outsider, I feel like taking the same line. He obviously doesn't want to be around me at the moment, so I shall leave him totally to it until he's ready.

But I do feel sad that, whatever happens, DD will never forget - and I don't know how long I can continue before I tell him to get help or get out. Last night I felt that, if I could write him a cheque for his share of our house and tell him to leave, I would!

Actually, thinking of going to the cinema tonight, if DD's going out with her friends again.

But oh, I do miss the man I know is in there!

Tanee58 · 15/11/2008 14:01

Hi Dior, sorry you are still feeling bad. Lack of sleep certainly doesn't help. And WHY does the postman always come early on a Saturday? Ours comes around 11am weekdays, but come Saturday...

I really shouldn't be on MN - I need to vacuum the house in case our lodger arrives soon - still don't know when she's coming, should give her a call later as I think she starts rehearsals next week. DP will have to sleep on the sofa next week if his sulk carries on.

What do you think I should do with DP's pile of shirts? Vacuum around them, perhaps? .

Going to check out local films now.

Dior · 15/11/2008 19:41

Message withdrawn

ladylush · 15/11/2008 21:22

Tanee it sounds as if you have such a special relationship with your dd He is behaving like a child. I don't blame you for taking that line with him. Maybe you could buy him a rattle

McD - thanks for info. Reassuring. How are you?

Dior - sorry you are feeling low

Fubsy · 16/11/2008 11:24

Hi all. Hope your weekends are going OK?

Tanee, I feel really sad reading your recent posts. You used to sspeak about your DP with such affection, now he sounds like he's being an arse. My X went similarly - from talking about things, to not, to just avoiding each other - and he was very childish too. It's left me with no affection or even respect for him, so I hope you and DP can repair things before it gets to that.

Baffy, I really feel for you. Especially the working and not having time for DS. I didnt realise he had had fits? Another stress you dont need.

As for me, Im feeling confused and full of dread atm. I went to see a solicitor last week to find out where I really stand if I sell the house. And I found out what I suspected - as the house is in my name now, and I paid off his part of the previous mortgage, I dont have to give him anything. But he is convinced he is going to get a big wad if I sell, and I know he will just go balistic if I show him the letter from the solicitor.

All I want to do now is sell up and move on. But I have a permanent sock feeling as I know what stress I have ahead of me. I want to stay in the area because of DD's school, although I will have to pay extra for the privilage - if I moved further away, there are cheaper properties. But if I stay here, I will end up paying more for repairs to all the things X started but never finished, as they become more than little niggles.

I just wish I could put the house on the market, then hibernate for 6 monthe while someone sells it and finds me somewhere else to live.

What is bothering me most though, is that I said he could take DD away in May - his NW's daughter is getting married abroad, and I said she could go to the wedding, even though it means she will be away for her birthday. I gave DD the choice, and that was what she chose.

Now I am scared that he will try to do something silly, as by that time he will have foiund out about the money thing. He will never forgive me for that, and I am scared he will either try to turn DD against me, or do something really stupid like not bring her back, or even try to keep her passport. I said he would have to buy her passport as he is the one who is taking her abroad all the time.

I know thins is probably just my overactive imagination, but I cant really talk about it to anyone else, so it just goes round and round my head and makes me lose track of reality.

Dior · 16/11/2008 11:52

Message withdrawn

HappyWoman · 16/11/2008 14:30

Fusby - i agree with dior, could you not stay in house? Save the money you would have spent on legal fees stamp duty and moving costs and splash out instead on a re-vamp to de-husband the house.

Also understand about the fears of him taking dd away - is he likely to get passport done in time?
Other option is for you to be able to go too - so that she spends time with her dad but you are always close at hand.
If you are really worried then you must see a solicitor and get some advice soon. Will he not be with people who would not allow that to happen?

Tanee - your comment about wanting the man you know is inside again made me cry. It is so hard when the actions are not those of the man you know is there, and i really understand what you are saying.
But he needs to find out for himself what he needs to do - he does seem to be on a self-destuct route.

Dior hope you feel better soon - anything we can do?

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Dior · 16/11/2008 19:12

Message withdrawn

Tanee58 · 16/11/2008 20:02

Fubsy, thanks. I too wonder if you could stay in the house - at least until the market improves? As it is, it will probably take a long time to sell. I also understand your fears re DD going abroad. Do you really think he would do such a thing? Check with your solicitor on your rights etc. And despite having given your word, if things seem to be getting nasty between now and May, you don't have to let her go, even if it means disappointing her.

Dior, this weather doesn't help either, does it? Even if I weren't feeling miserable about DP, this endless gloom and mizzle would drag me down - so I can imagine, multiplying that by 10, what it must be like if you're suffering from depression.

DP and I still aren't speaking. It worries me that the longer we leave it, the harder it will be - but he's actively avoiding me and we've barely exchanged a word now since Thursday. He's in the kitchen now ironing shirts, and I shall have to go in to get the dinner, but I expect very little - and I expect him to refuse any offer of food.

As for last night, we had a really weird episode. Oh, our lodger arrived, so I didn't go out after all. The only time I spoke to DP was when he, she & I were having our dinners. When she left the room, all conversation dried up. He didn't speak to me, so I went to bed with an ear cocked for DD's return home.

About midnight I heard her struggling to open the front door. I went down to find DP had locked it and thrown the catch on the Yale, so she couldn't get in (he hadn't even asked if she was out for the whole night). I checked the front room to see if he was asleep on the sofa - no. I knew he had to be in the house somewhere, & there was only one place - yes, unbelievably, he was sprawled fully clothed and snoring, on DD's bed ! It was SO lucky she didn't go in first - she was a little bit tipsy, and she said she would have just shouted, 'WHAT THE FUCK!' As it was, I had to calm her down and she slept with me. We talked awhile, and she burst into tears saying she hated him for making me so unhappy, after all that we'd been through over the past six years. I feel so bad that I've made her father's life sad, her life sad and difficult, and all for this. And him taking over her bed was SO Freudian - like a great drunken cuckoo in the nest!

About 6.30am the cats woke me up, so I went to the loo. Whilst I was there, DD says he woke up too, and came into our room. She thought he was going to get into bed with her - so she sat right up and just stared at him in the dark. She said he just looked at her, probably realised that she wasn't me, and went away. He slept the rest of the night downstairs.

DD had to change all her bedclothes -she couldn't bear the thought of him having been on them - and they'd been clean on yesterday.

I don't know whether to talk to him about this incident or not. He'll probably go defensive and say he thought she was out for the night and there was no other bed available - but it was really weird, nonetheless.

What I really, really want him to do is call the GP and start to access some professional help. I'll make the call for him, and go with him, if that helps. What we can't do is carry on like this.

I've started reading some books PC lent me -PC, if you're lurking, Thankyou!! They're really helping and I shall try to put the advice into operation.

Fubsy · 16/11/2008 20:55

Tanee, that's such wierd behaviour. Is he trying to force you to make a choice between him and DD? He must surely know how that would come out?

Thanks for the kind words folks. I agree that the sensible thing would be to ride out the recession, but I really hate living here now.

its not just the reminders of him, its the fact that there's damp and the immersion heater could die any time, and I literally dont have the money to do anything. I bought some paint to tart it up ages ago,started the bathroom, and made such a pigs ear of it that I was too depressed to continue.

Then there's the wierd neighbours front and back, the cockerell that crows outside my bedroom window, and the neighbours son who has taught DD such choice words as "lesbian" and "smackhead" and who thinks it is OK to take DD to a river somewhere I dont know. He is a disaster waiting to happen, and his Mum doesnt give a toss.

If I sell the house, i can make a clean start, and hopefully have a little money to have the odd holiday or treat. The sol said that things were miving round here, a lot more than compared with some other parts of the country, and I see no reason not to believe him. If I go with an estate agent that doesnt tie in, I should be OK. If I cant affird to buy, I will rent - Im renting off the building society anyway, as Im paying mostly interest.

Nothing is ever straight forward, is it.

Dior, I think this must be the worst year yet for adding to depression, the weather and the fact that you cant open a paper, turn on the radio or tv without someone telling us the country is about to fall into financial ruin, does nothing to help your mood.

As far as H giving you a housework talk, maybe he would like to help a bit? I used to get the same - he actually said he thought women liked doinbfg housework once, and he didnt understand why I didnt feel like that.

Tanee58 · 16/11/2008 23:53

Fubsy, it does sound like you would be better off moving then, if you can. Particularly don't like the sound of the neighbour's son!

Yes, DP's behaviour last night was weird. And I am now in bed typing to hold onto some semblance of calm whilst inside I am reeling.

We all left DP to it in the front room tonight and DD, lodger & I ate our dinner in the kitchen. DP came in at one point for a bottle of wine (his usual second bottle ). We were discussing Lodger's spagbol recipe, and she said to him, I hear Tanee makes a good bolognese. He looked at me like the old DP for a moment, smiled and said, 'Oh, she makes the BEST bolognese!' and I thought, yes, he's coming back. A flash of my own DP. So before coming to bed I went in to wish him goodnight. He said goodnight, and added, 'I'll be sleeping down here'. I said, 'Yes, I thought you would. But when you feel better, I'll be glad to have you back.'

And he said, 'I won't be back.'

It was like that first time 18 months ago, when he said he wanted out, that the 'experiment had failed', and earlier this summer, when he said we must sell up. He said it's over, there's too much bad history between us now, we must put the house on the market and he'll be sleeping on the sofa until we sell.

I tried saying I could see he felt in a very dark place, but that I was there for him. He said no, I wasn't there for him, I never was, then corrected himself and admitted that it was him who wasn't there, that he couldn't do this any more,that he felt trapped.

I said I didn't feel we'd tried every possibility, that we agreed Relate wasn't really addressing the problems, and that the counsellor herself had suggested he need to seek independent therapy or counselling. I said look, just make an appointment with the GP, or shall I make the appointment? You can think about it as we won't even get an appointment before next week. He said, 'can I then say I won't go?' I said, 'yes, that's your choice, but I would hope you will go - and I'd go with you'.

He said, 'well, I'll tell you now, you can make the appointment, but I won't go'.

I thought, well there's no real talking to be done now, it's 10.30pm, he's drunk so much he's swaying, the football's on and he's dug his heels in. So I kissed his cheek and left, and said 'I love you' as I walked out the door. He half looked my way, but said nothing.

Oh girls, what do you think? What should I do? I went up to DD's room and collapsed on her bed in a numb heap. She was fantastic, hugged me and said it'll be all right, with or without him. But she doesn't want to leave this house either, and really, if he holds to this course, it'll be torment for all of us to creep around each other indefinitely! It's been bad enough these last four days.

I went down a bit later to fetch the laptop as I knew I couldn't sleep, and bumped into him in the kitchen, where he was rooting around for Brenda, who was on charge. He said he was going to bed too, and hadn't sorted out his clothes for tomorrow, so he might have to disturb me by coming into the bedroom in the morning. I said that was fine, I would be awake by then anyway. And this time, as we were both standing up, I put my arms around him and we actually hugged each other. A nice, tentative, long hug. I said goodnight again, and that if he got cold or uncomfortable on the sofa, there was always a space for him upstairs. This time he didn't turn me down harshly, just smiled ruefully & said, 'oh the bed will be full of cats' and I said no, they will be in the corridor as usual.

And I've kept my word, I haven't let the cats in, though it's mighty lonely in here.

I feel numb and don't know whether to feel despair or hope, because of the hug, that I might be able to get through to him slowly. It's the first real physical contact we've had since Thursday. But his fear seems to be that he's behaved so badly that if we stay together in this house, he will keep on repeating the bad behaviour and it will escalate. And he will, if he doesn't seek help. And he is so resistant to getting that help. Why would he choose to destroy what we've had rather than try every possibility to save it?

Well, so much for Relate! It seems to have just prolonged the period of quiet before releasing fresh agony. Don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight - or work tomorrow.

I wish I could cry - or then again, no, I've cried enough before and it just makes my throat ache. At the moment it's just my heart aching, and I feel sick. I also feel suspended - I went through heartbreak with him 20 years ago and I really thought, this time, it would be different. I couldn't cry then either, for similar reasons. I knew then, as now, that it wasn't anything I had done wrong - but that makes me feel even more helpless, knowing that the solution is in his hands, and that he won't act to grasp it.

Oh well, will now try to get some sleep.

GrabShellDude · 17/11/2008 08:46

Oh Tanee that is so heart-wrenchingly sad . Can't believe you've made me cry although I am hormonal at the moment, in my defence.

Really don't know what to say to you. What else can you do? You can't try to help him anymore than you have done and keep on doing.

You must be exhausted with it all. Your love for DP and your DD shine through your posts and yet you must feel like such a piggy in the middle.

You know what? If I were you I think I would just take a step back from him. Leave him to it. Although I appreciate that living in the same house as someone behaving like this must be incredibly difficult. So not much help there was I? Oh dear, really, really wish I knew what to advise you to do. But you appear to be such a wise, witty and lovely person that you've thought about every possibility anyway.

Have a very un-MN like hug and a .

Tanee58 · 17/11/2008 09:25

GDS - Thank you! I really needed a hug . I think you're right - others have also said I should step back and leave him to it. Though I don't want to step so far back that he thinks I'm indifferent! And you're right, I do feel like piggy in the middle - and poor DD feels like she is the nub of the problem. She is certainly the focus, but the nub is that he is finding it harder than he ever thought he would, to share a 'grownup' life of responsibility and shared/conflicting space and needs. If it weren't her, he'd probably find something else - he said as much at our last Relate session. I think, deep down, he knows jolly well that the real problem the real elephant in the room, is the baggage he carries in his head. And he is perhaps afraid of exploring that since his previous attempt at counselling 20 years back did no good at all.

I finally did let the cats in - it got so late I knew he wasn't going to join me. And my boy cat, who is usually quite independent and goes off to sleep or hunt elsewhere, was scratching at the bedroom door and as soon as he came in, jumped on the bed and purred all over me, bunting me like mad - he did this the night before, too, when DD and I slept together and let the cats join us for comfort. He hasn't done this since he was a kitten and it really seemed like he sensed my distress and wanted to help . I managed to sleep and woke about 6.30 with both cats cuddled up to me, so made myself some tea and went back to bed to read my book on how to cope with a depressed loved one - which is giving me some strength and coping strategies. I also decided to wash his unwashed coffee mugs and percolator. I didn't expect thanks, but I hoped he would notice the gesture and realise it was me trying to show I did care, despite the last few days.

Anyway, we were polite and gentle with each other this morning. He accepted a kiss from me when he left for work, and said he wasn't going out tonight, so he'd see me later (he might change his mind at 5pm of course, but I am prepared for his non-appearance and will cope). I wished him a good day at work, and he wished me the same and smiled quite cheerily as he went down the road. So although he didn't initiate any physical closeness, at least he didn't pull away.

I have also made an appointment with a GP for Wednesday week. That gives us 10 days to see if I can move him towards agreeing to go. I shall take the morning off and go with him (he doesn't 'do' mornings, being a creature of the theatre), but by next week he may be agreeable to making the effort and if he objects to the time, I shall try to get one later). I shall not put any pressure on him re sleeping downstairs or anything else, just remind him that I do love him, and that whatever happens, I will ALWAYS be there for him - that this is something we can deal with together. Maybe that mantra will get through to him in the end? I'm not sure I believe it myself yet, but I will try.

Kewcumber · 17/11/2008 09:39

BIG GATECRASH

Sorry to cut across your problme (particularly Tannee ) but Paddlechick has had some very bad news and I know some of you are quite friendly with her and I don;t ahev your email addresses to let you know personally.

Her borther has faleln and fractured his skull and is on a ventilator with an uncertian prognosis at this stage. He was taken into surgery in the small hours of this mornign and wasn't out when I spoke to her first thing this morning.

Let me know if you want to keep you infomred or if there might be a better way of letting you know - I don't MSN but I am on facebook if you prefer.

Dior · 17/11/2008 09:47

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Dior · 17/11/2008 09:49

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Kewcumber · 17/11/2008 10:10

will do Dior - I can;t get on facebook at work My initials are SJ and my profile pic is the same as one of my MN ones. Anyo of you can feel free to add me - just put "paddle" somewhere in the request and your MN name so I know who you are!

Shocking how quickly things in life change isn't it.

Baffy · 17/11/2008 10:32

OMG Kew thanks for letting us know. I will text PC but please keep us informed if you can. Thank you.

Tanee ? my heart really goes out to you
If I?m totally honest though, I see a lot of myself in you (the way you?re feeling that in order to save this relationship you need to show him how much you love him, you need to book his appointment at the doctor, you need to convince him to go, etc etc.)

Now I know I?m a fine one to talk! But if you read all of your posts back, you will start to see that the only person who can change this situation is him. If he doesn?t have the desire and motivation to do all of this himself, then it will never work If he goes to see the doctor ?for you?, he?s no further forwards anyway. He has to do it for him. Because he wants to, because he loves you and he will do whatever it takes to be with you.

You have to start saying to yourself, obviously you love him, and you do what you can to show that (even the small gestures) but what does he do to show he loves you?

I?m just exploring all of this myself. I really don?t want to be negative for you. (This is a pep talk for myself as well as you!) I think for the past 18 months I have done exactly what you?re doing. Anything and everything to help H, prove that I love him, support him? and he wasn?t doing any of that in return. I kept on with it, forever the optimist, just waiting for that day when he realised it all himself and started to give me back what I needed. But while we?re there with the endless support regardless of their actions, and doing everything to 'make things better', and they?re of the mind set to 'take take take' then wallow, then take some more, nothing will ever change.

So for us, all it served to do was prolong the agony because we are right back to where we started. Like H said, his heart hasn?t been in it for a long time and when there?s no desire there to put in the effort because you want to, then things can?t work.

I think sometimes (like me!) you say the right thing about stepping back and leaving him to it, but in reality you can?t quite manage it. You can?t quite give up.

And believe me, I don?t blame you for that. There is a man there who you love very much. Who you have made a lot of sacrifices for. You want your relationship to work. You want the partner you used to know.
But does he want all of that too? Does he even realise just what he stands to lose? I very much doubt it. And perhaps, it?s time for him to find out.

Of course you love the house, but it?s a house. It?s just a shell at the end of the day. You sounded more happy and content eating that pizza in the car than you do in your own home at the moment Don?t let practical considerations cloud the issues. (I know it?s not that easy!) But try to think, deep down, what will make you all happy? As much as you love him, I don?t think he?s bringing much happiness into your life at all right now

Tanee58 · 17/11/2008 10:53

Kew - forget 'gatecrash' - this is more important. Yes, please keep us informed and give PC my love. I'm reading one of the books she lent me and it's helping enormously. She must be feeling frantic.

Dior, thank you - I think I really need to see friends! If only to put some distance between me and the domestic.

Baffy, thank you also, a lot of what you say makes such perfect sense. I do try to distance, and then I get drawn in again through wanting to 'help'. You are right, he has to want to do this. I am trying to think of what he does to make me happy. Well, he made pesto last week - which is special to us as he introduced me to pesto when we first dated and I'd never heard of the stuff. And when we had our hot date he lit all the candles and played 'our song' to start us off. He does a few thing... - but you are right, I do the bulk. He says 'I love you' (last time was Thursday morning ) - but I wonder if he'll EVER want to seek help. Maybe he just doesn't love me - or indeed, himself - enough. I don't think he likes himself much at all, and each time he kicks off, he likes himself less. I think his decision to go is a desperate act of self-preservation.

People have been really nice at work this morning, so at least I have some support here and if I need any time off, I can have it. And all of you are keeping me afloat - thank you all from the bottom of my heart!!!

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