another post affair thread....

[ratbunny]

dh left me for ow a couple of months ago. our marriage was not in a good state (he was incredibly selfish after ds was born, and I put up with a lot of crap, but got quite controlling in my fight for the 'family'), and tbh I was ready to leave him too, but wanted to give it a last try.

I was gutted, but sorted my head out quite quickly, and got to the point where I was moving on (albeit with blips of feeling down / angry). I honestly got to where I felt I could carry on without him.

But, now he has come to his senses. He says he regrets what he did, feels ashamed, realises how important we are, is terrified of losing us forever, and will do whatever I want to make up to me. He was crying as he told me this, and in the 14 years we have been together he has cried once. He has def finished with ow, and she has disappeared completely.

I am not sure he is what I want, and need time out, but I do know I want to be his friend. After 14 years together, I dont want to say never, but I so hurt, my trust in him is shattered, I dont know I will ever get over this. And I am not sure at the moment how much i want to try. I made plans for my future, and would still like to see some of those through.

He says he will get counselling - he does have major issues to do with his own childhood, which I think are the root of what happened. But I need him to change really - I need someone strong, responsible, reliable, which in the past couple of years (since ds) he hasnt been. He says he can change and wants to be a person that I need and want to have in my life. I dont know if people can change.

At the moment we are friends, for ds sake, adn because we still get on really well. I really care for him, and understand good people do bad things. But I want someone I am PROUD to introduce to my friends and family, and after what he put me through, I feel I would hang my head in shame.

But I keep looking at the post affair threads on here, so that tells me something. And I keep checking my phone to see if he has texted me, and I look forward to his seeing ds, so I can see him too. But how can I ensure I get what I NEED and WANT, and am not going to get hurt again?

So where do we go from here? Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks stirlingmum, i will be doing things for me come september when the kids go back to school/preschool. Can't really do much atm as i live 3 hrs from family and so have no easy childcare.H is forces so is away for 6 months atm, once he's back at xmas wee will sort out proper accsess. I also childmind so always have a house full of kids!.

I have lost about a stone and a half since this happened and am below 8 stone now, i look gaunt and too thin so am trying to eat more, want to join a gym and get fit (and stop smoking!) also signed up for an OU course (scary!).

My friends and family all say i am coping so well and tbh i am most of the time but i don't think about anything else, i'm sick of it all whirling round my head constantly. One comfort is that i know h is not with ow but am sure hes phoning/emailing her.

Am going on holiday next week with family so a change of scenery may help, also will have no internet so won't be able to obsessivly check my email/skype to see if hes made contact which is what i do atm.

Having a bad day today i think

That must be difficult, Amber, when h is away so much, but maybe you already know what it is like to be a single parent in a way. I know it isn't the same, but you sound strong enough to cope with that.

Try to eat something each day. I haven't dropped below 9st but the keep fit has definitely help me. The constant sick feeling does go away eventually.

I didn't join a gym but we have an eliptical machine at home and I used that day and night at the beginning. I used to picture ow (even though I haven't seen her) and imagine running her over (mad eh!!). I do keep fit classes at a local community ctr too and have a bike with a baby seat on the back so I can take smallest dd to nursery school & keep fit at the same time!

Please take care of yourself - keep in contact

amber - you do sound like you are sorting your life out. well done on enrolling on an ou course! tbh I only think it was when I started to get my life back together that h realised what he was missing. The way I saw it was he can see what he's missing, and if he doesnt then I'm halfway to sorting myself out anyway.

am92 - at least your h is going to relate sessions. But [anger] he isnt totally willing to drop her. I think he needs to make that committment to you, for your own peice of mind. I am now demanding that h shows me any contact she makes with him - hence the awful email detailing everything.

I called him last night with another long list of questions. I need to keep asking him random things cos I am so needy at the mo. He was really nice, saying really nice things. And the images are slowly fading. But tbh its the sex that worries me - I just dont know if I could ever be intimate again. He says he doesnt mind, that our relationship is worth more than that, but I think this is how the problems started anyway.

I am finding it so hard to not think about our future / not. I told him I need to not think about it, but I really cant!

I meant to add - I am thinking more and more that I need to give it another go, just so I dont regret NOT doing it. We got on well etc, and when we are all together as a family we tend to be happy.

BUT I know i n eed to take it slowly, as h has to change SO MUCH for this to work. Before this all kicked off he was selfish, arrogant, irresponsible, unreliable. Mostly I think to do with his issues from chidhood that manifested since ds's birth. So much as I want to dive in there, I need to give him time to sort out his head...

ratbunny I'm sure our H are related

Hope things start to improve for you soon.
I've not seen or heard from H since Tuesday. He has DD tomorrow so will see him when he collects her.

The less I see of him the easier I'm finding to it to cope but like you I still have a million questions swirling round my head.

Only time will tell whether we can ever have a future together

Ratbunny, does your h know all the things you want him to change in order to make it work? does he think he can? do you? he does sound like he really wants to try.

I do think people can change, but i think it sounds like you need to really communicate effectivly with each other, are you going to relate?

Stirling i am "lucky" in one respect as i am very used to being on my own with the kids as h has always been away soooo much! but i always knew he was there for emotional support and tbh i spent alot of my time waiting for him to be home, now i feel lost as hes not coming home but i am still waiting,but for what? i have lost my focus for getting through the days.

I do feel more positive today, going to take the kids for a nice walk on exmoor (in the rain!) to burn of some energy and then home for hot chocolate. Trying to focus on the fact that h is the one who will end up miserable, not me, i will be fine!!

Hope you all have a happy day x

amber - yes, I have told him repeatedly that he needs to change. to stop being selfish, to think of me and ds centrally in his life, to be considerate to other people, to be responsible and take initiative. If he can begin to do those things alone, then I will help him to carry on. Like I said, a lot of things stem from his childhood - like the need to appear 'big' infront of people, the need to be looked after (I cannot do that anymore), the learning to be unreliable as that is all he has experienced from adults.
Basically, when I know he has started counselling then I know he is really trying. Until then, I guess I coast.

myheadisspinning - sometimes its easier to get things in perspective without them around. But then I guess your mind wanders, and you protect yourself by not needing them iyswim.

amber - I used to wait for h to get home too. Now I just wait til ds is in bed so I can mnet, do some exercise or phone a friend! not quite the same, but I still feel a bit social and active.

myheadisspinning - just read your thread. didnt realise you and I are in pretty much EXACTLY the same situations.
I am demanding total transparency from h - I am still breaking into his email etc, and he needs to accept I need to do that to trust him. I call him up and expect him to answer quickly. I need to know that he is not back with ow, and that I can always get hold of him. When he was with ow I would call him and he wouldnt answer - I told him each time he takes ages to answer it makes me remember those times. Basically, if he really wants to make a go of this then, among MANY other things, he needs to understand that I will constantly be mistrusting him and he needs to reassure me of that trust. iyswim
The only way this can work is by him constantly reassuring me. I have told him I will be really needy, wven with us as 'friends', and he appears to accept that. I wanted to see the email she sent him, and wish I hadnt read it, but now I know all the facts. Far better to know than keep wondering imo.
But I do think the turning point for him was seeing me get on with my life. By not discussing 'us', by saying I wont have him back. It made him think what he was losing. All the time ow was still in his life, although I wanted him back I still made preparations for my own life.

Hows it going Ratbunny?

a quick update.
h spoke to the counsellor, and is going to see him next week. the counsellor told h he will help him understand my point of view, as well as helping him to undersatnd himself. h is such an emotional cripple.
on the other hand, he is refusing to commit to either of us (me or ow). so, I went on a date yesterday (had it planned for a couple of weeks now, since before h said he wanted to work on things). it was fun, but he was not what I am after.
and I pulled today in a cafe (again, not my type, but flattering!).
so I am feeling a lot better about myself..
he is seeing ds tomorrow, and we are spending the day as a family at the weekend. we will limit time spent talking about 'us', and just spend time as a family (funny, something he wasnt interested in doing before we split up..)
since realising I am still attractive to men though, I am now in a stronger place to think about if h is the person I want to be with....

Good for you Ratbunny

It is nice to know that the opposite sex find you attractive, whether you like them or not!!

Since all my problems with my h, I find myself flirting with guys I wouldn't normally have flirted with but I just want a reaction. If I see that they find me attractive, I am happy with that - I dont want to take it any further. It just helps to rebuild my self confidence.

I have been trying to sort out a counselling session for next week - we could do it during the day when the dc are in school (yes, they go back next week in Scotland - yipee!!). I am afraid I am not too hopeful about the outcome. I feel he is still too attached to ow (god, I hate her!!)

I feel the same way stirling. Think h might be too attached to her.
I try to remain philosophical and think - well if he is, better off without him. But its so very hard.
I am also finding that the more he says he wants to work on it, but is still in contct with her, the wider the gap between us gets. I told him this last night - I said it is very close to getting uncrossable iyswim.
on the other hand - its great being able to flirt isnt it! loving the (sparse) male attention! its' definitely a self confidence thing..

Hi RB, I feel the same about the situation becoming so bad you cant get back to how you want to be. There must come a point where you can no longer love this person, or want to have a relationship with them because of the way they have treated you. I feel I am dangerously close to this.

We have arranged for counselling next Friday (we started in Jan but h wasn't into it so we stopped). It will be interesting to see how this goes because I was a quivering wreck when we last went but I am much stronger now. I am probably hoping for too much, but I hope it will help us to know what we want. Good or bad.

Right - I am off to Tesco's for a bit of a flirt!

echo that feeling of being dangerously close to not being able to go into a relationship with them because of how they have treated you.

having said that, we took ds out for the day together today, and had a great day. Really lovely. Felt quite close to him again.

But I am totally unable to show him any affection, as I am so scared of being hurt again..

Affection is an awkward one - Neither of us show it at the moment. Him because he doesn't feel he should come near me. Me because I feel weird going to him for a hug when I think he would rather be with her.

Kids notice though - last week we were saying goodbye to h as he was going somewhere and the dc hugged and kissed him and I said goodbye. Afterwards my 4yr old said "Do you miss Daddy?" and I said "Yes" to which she replied "Well, why didn't you kiss Daddy then?"

Hard one to explain

yes, exactly true about the reasons we dont show affection. unfortunately my h doesnt seem to understand my reasons
I do love him, I do miss him, but he has such emotional issues. He says I make him feel guilty. Well good! but he doesnt know how to handle that.
hopefully the counsellor will help.
but then, as well as the emotional issues there are the practical issues too. I feel living separately will really help - not sure h feels the same. he really needs to pull himself together and CONTRIBUTE to this family for me to have him back.
here's hoping...

and strangely, I am also getting a real urge to confront ow, and let her know how much she has helped fuck things up, to show her I am not the evil woman she thinks I am, and to tell her I dont blame her but to GROW UP and GET HER OWN LIFE
not sure if that would be agood idea, but I cant help thinking that while she has never met me it makes it easy for her to do what she is still trying to do...

I totally understand the urge to confront ow. Difficult for me as she is in another country BUT found her e-mail address recently so sent her a message.

I kept a copy of the mail, and have read it since and I am not embarassed or ashamed of sending it. I asked her what she thought she was doing, not just seeing a married man with 3 dc, but moving into his company flat? I told her that I am worried about the dc at school etc and that I held h to blame for the incident but that she played her part.

Felt much better for sending it and dont regret it. She didn't respond (theres a shocker!).

well I know where ow lives, and h has her ring that he needs to give back, and one to collect from her.
I am thinking of doing the exchange myself. she is living with her mum, so I really want her mum to see what is happening too - I bet ow is all 'oh I have been so hard done by', but I would like to show her what she has done and that I am not to blame. Not for her, for me.

but I dont really know what I'd say, and I would need to know beforehand.

Something like -
here is your ring, can I have h's back please. Now stay out of our lives. I dont blame you for what happened, but you were thoughtless and naive, and now you need to stay out so we can put right what you helped to make wrong.
you are young,and will get over this. It is not the end of the world for you. I have a 14yr relationship that may or may not survive this, and in that capacity you may also have destroyed h's sons chance to live in a happy family.
I can only hope that when you grow up and have your own family, that your partner does not see fit to abandon your family for someone 10yrs younger, so that you may never experience the pain and hurt that you have put me and my son through.

Sounds good RB, just remain calm and dignified at all times!

RB - I have been thinking about what you said earlier "He says I make him feel guilty".

That is what my h feels. I honestly believe that if our marriage fails, that will be the reason. He cannot move past the guilt.

In the book I read about affair it said that some marriages fail after an affair, not because the couple dont love each other, but because the straying partner cannot bear to look at their spouse without feeling massive guilt for the hurt they caused.

I remember at the time reading it and thinking what a sad reason for a family breaking up - and now I realise that may be how me and h end up

an interesteing thought. imo it would happen with me and h because he would refuse to talk about things that led up to it, and refuse to talk to me about how I am feeling when I need him to (eg if we were having sex and had to stop because all I could think about was them. a very real possibility)
that would be very sad.

had to post again, just to get my feelings out.
h is totally unwilling to do anything about this. everytime we talk, and we NEED to talk, about how we feel / where we go from here, he is just 'this is too hard for me to deal with'
If I ever needed confirmation of his fucking selfishness, this is it.
I understand that it is hard for him too. but he gives NO WEIGHT to how hard it is for me. and while I am fighting for this to work, he cannot make the effort. talking about it makes him feel bad. how the fuck does he think NOT talking about it makes ME feel? he is totally unable to deal with what he has done, but it is only through talking about it that we will be able to rebuild anything. and, for the record, we don't discuss it every time that we talk.

it is not the affair that will be the end of our marriage, it will be his selfish behaviour afterwards that will.

Exactly how I feel RB!

Of course they don't want to talk about it. They would much rather brush it all under the carpet and forget about it.

The only way you can move forward and heal is if he is completely open to you and talk it all through.

I often think about years from now, when the dc want more info about why the marriage failed and I can see myself saying that their Dad didn't want to repair the damage done after the affair. Seems such a silly reason for it all failing.

stirling - I also think that by discussing it will help THEM to deal with what they have done, instead of just carrying round guilt and feeling sorry for themselves.
yes - why are you and daddy not living together? becauase he ran off with a 23 year old and then couldnt be bothered to repair the damage done to our marriage. pathetic really isnt it?

and the hard thing is also that with me flitting between staying and going, this really pushes me into the 'going' camp.

just how long will I be able / willing to wait while he sorts himself out before I decide it's too much? actually - I have circled a date in 6 weeks time. If I still feel I want to give up, then I can...