another post affair thread....

[ratbunny]

dh left me for ow a couple of months ago. our marriage was not in a good state (he was incredibly selfish after ds was born, and I put up with a lot of crap, but got quite controlling in my fight for the 'family'), and tbh I was ready to leave him too, but wanted to give it a last try.

I was gutted, but sorted my head out quite quickly, and got to the point where I was moving on (albeit with blips of feeling down / angry). I honestly got to where I felt I could carry on without him.

But, now he has come to his senses. He says he regrets what he did, feels ashamed, realises how important we are, is terrified of losing us forever, and will do whatever I want to make up to me. He was crying as he told me this, and in the 14 years we have been together he has cried once. He has def finished with ow, and she has disappeared completely.

I am not sure he is what I want, and need time out, but I do know I want to be his friend. After 14 years together, I dont want to say never, but I so hurt, my trust in him is shattered, I dont know I will ever get over this. And I am not sure at the moment how much i want to try. I made plans for my future, and would still like to see some of those through.

He says he will get counselling - he does have major issues to do with his own childhood, which I think are the root of what happened. But I need him to change really - I need someone strong, responsible, reliable, which in the past couple of years (since ds) he hasnt been. He says he can change and wants to be a person that I need and want to have in my life. I dont know if people can change.

At the moment we are friends, for ds sake, adn because we still get on really well. I really care for him, and understand good people do bad things. But I want someone I am PROUD to introduce to my friends and family, and after what he put me through, I feel I would hang my head in shame.

But I keep looking at the post affair threads on here, so that tells me something. And I keep checking my phone to see if he has texted me, and I look forward to his seeing ds, so I can see him too. But how can I ensure I get what I NEED and WANT, and am not going to get hurt again?

So where do we go from here? Any advice would be welcome.

ratbunny

Totally understand the swinging from love to hate within minutes. I'm still doing that now.

Lack of communication was a major problem here too. I think that over the last 18 months I've begun to understand why it happened. All the little things that built up over time and caused him to make the decision to go with OW.

What I've also realised is the depression etc is bollocks. He got depressed because he couldn't live with the guilt of what he was doing to his innocent wife and child. So no sympathy there!

Basically though, what I've had to accept is that he left for OW because he wanted to. We had issues. But like you say, he had a choice. Stick around and give us chance to work them out. Or go. He chose to go.

That's a hard thing to accept. Especially when you're living every day wondering how you will rebuild the trust to a level where you can trust that they won't leave you again! Seems impossible!

But I guess my take on it these days is that I will never ever know if he will or won't do it again. The same as he'll never know that I will stick around for him no matter what. I feel that the marriage, our son, and our happiness when we're together, are the main reasons for trying.

No matter who we end up with there's always a chance that a similar thing could happen. But that goes both ways. I think when your trust in someone has been so utterly torn apart and your life has been so devastated, you'll never get back to that place where you feel 100% secure. It's natural to protect yourself after something like this.

I'm waffling on. But the question is whether there is enough left between you to make it worth another go.

You can't change what's happened. Just as he'll have to live with and understand that you'll never quite trust in the same way again. That doesn't mean to say you can't rebuild the relationship and have a happy future as a family.
I suppose the time has come where you can decide what you want. That's what matters now. He made his own choices. Now it's up to you what your choice is.

That is a point that I struggle with Baffy - The fact that h had a choice but CHOSE to start the relationship with the ow.

I know they had flirted for a long time but you wonder what convinced him to take that extra step.

stirlingmum I think if i look at it from his POV, he had OW, young, exciting, no ties, full of life and energy, and pretty much begging him to leave his wife and live this exciting carefree life with her...

On the other hand he's feeling middle aged, youth has passed him by, has his wife who is worn out from working / childcare / paying bills / cooking/ cleaning etc etc etc...
And obviously over time those feelings of lust and excitement turn into a more sustanable 'love' based on respect for each other, the families you've created and an enjoyment of just being 'together'

A weak, selfish, short-sighted person will take the first option every time!

And that's definitely what my H was.

Over time they then stop and think... I had a lovely home. A wife who adored me. I lived with the family I created.
And I gave all that up for sex and bit of excitement. I'm a part time dad. The woman I love is going to settle down with someone new and he will be bringing my children up. I have to start all over again etc etc...
For many, the novelty soon wears off!

I think what matters is whether or not they truly learnt from that 'mistake'. Have they learnt enough to realise that their marriage and family is so precious that it is not worth jeapordising ever ever again?!
Or are they the sort of person who will take anything that's offered on a plate, regardless of the consequences, because they can't see past their next shag...
Million dollar question I guess. Everyone is so different.

I'm hoping that H can prove to me he's in the first category. And if he genuinely feels as strongly about us as I do, then he'll find a way to prove it. Either way, I'll have my answer....

HTH!

God this thread makes such interesting reading! makes me feel less alone in my situation.

H also asid to me "i thought you didn't love me" and looking back i didn't show him that i did. He has worked away so much in the last couple of years, in2007 i worked out he only spent 75 days with me and the kids and 2008 wasn't much better. In a way its not suprising he turned to his slag. Communication between us was crap and i felt resentful that i was bringing the kids up alone.

Just wish we had talked more and he had told me how he felt. We used to be good together and i was looking to the future thinking we could be good again when his stupid job calmed down a bit.

Sorry for waffling on this thread has made me think. You all sound so wise and switched on! i just feel a jumbled up mess most of the time.

Hi Amber - I also wish we had talked more but what were we to do?

H was hardly here. just like your h. When he was here he was knackered and preparing to leave again (shutting himself in his study, preparing presentations etc).

I think in their minds they try to make it our fault, and I did blame myself at the beginning for not seeing how bad the relationship had got. But now I know it wasn't my fault and h has a tongue in his head and could very easily have said "I am worried about us, we aren't talking enough. We need to spend more time together" but he didn't.

I also thought things weren't right but believed, like you Amber, that it was a phase (small dc and all that) and we would have more time together in the near future.

In my opinion our h's took the easy choice and instead of repairing what they had they tried to start again with someone new (and usually younger, with no kids funnily enough).

agree with both stirling and amber there. It WAS their choice. Instead of seeing the problem and thinking of sorting things out, they took the easy option of going with someone else who was younger and no kids. With no thought as to how we felt.
Which is why I have such a problem with the notion of giving it another try. If someone can be that disrespectful to you and your family, and thoughtless and selfish etc, how can you move on from that?
I do think h regrets what he has done, and I know only time will prove quite how much he does regret it, and whether we really are importnant to him, but I wonder if he deserves another try iyswim. and if perhaps I deserve someone who hasnt treated me like that. I do still care about him, and I look forward to his visits etc, but you WOULD after 14 years together wouldnt you?

someone put it to me that I would have these issues with a new person too - are they trustworthy, can they be a good dad etc etc, but I KNOW h is capable of what he has done. I kind of wonder if I am missing my chance to find a really good partner.

And I am also concerned about being taken for a complete mug - my closest friends know exactly what he did. In fact, most people do. I want to be able to hold my head high and say he is worth it, but I am not sure he is.

And that is what makes it so much harder...

Sorry not posted back for a while. Ratbunny I know what you mean about swinging between love and hate.

I'm at the same stage as you feeling-wise...the only diff is your DH is now saying he wants to make a go and feels guilty for what he did. My H is saying he is confused about what he wants - me or OW -although she is offering herself on a plate so doubt he is turning that down He hasn't said he is sorry nearly enough and freely admittedthat when he slept with OW he didn't feel guilty but kind of does now

I really don't know whether, like you say, I could forgive and take him back. That thought tho is completely hypothetical because he doesn't want me enough to make any changes or sacrifices so I can't take him back as the man he is right now.

ratbunny I totally agree with every bit of your last post

especially wondering if they deserve this chance when they are capable of choosing to do this to us and our children

food for thought

and yes, after 14 years of course there is the familiarity and ease of being in each other's company. I was saying exactly that to my friend yesterday. Is that all it is though, familiarity.

don't people say that often the right/best decisions, are the hardest to make...

ratbunny, I recognise what you are saying too.

Baffy, what you said about familiarity is interesting. Familiarity breeds contempt... I think perhaps we get caught in a rut of childcare, bit of resentment (I know I resented h being able to do spontaneous things like have a quick drink after work - I couldn't have a quick drink after giving the children tea, well not in a pub anyway!), I know I started to take less care with myself, rarely wore makeup (10 years ago I wouldn't have left the house without mascara on!), often changed into comfy but manky tracky bottoms once the kids were in bed. To some extent, no wonder the ow is attractive! I have started now to take much more care of me, for me, and he's noticing...

I also agree sometimes the right decision is the hardest. For our hs, the hardest decision would have been to face up to whatever issues, communication problems etc. there were in our partnerships, and get them discussed, resolved. But no, they chose the easy way out, refuge in the arms of ow. Weak and selfish. They are all incredibly lucky that they have us strong, resilient women who are even prepared to consider giving them a second chance...

Not that my h has asked for that second chance...

uc - now you see, I am not sure what the hardest desicion actually IS. Is it to work things through with h, or to carry on my single life? Neither appear to be the easy option - in fact the easiest option of all would be to forget all about h. Far harder to try to work things through.

uc / myheadispinning - I actually felt stronger when he didnt want me back. Though I was hurt, there were no difficult decisions to make. Now I feel very vulnerable and confused. And it is very different saying you will never have him back / would will work it out, when you think that the opportunity to try will never occur anyway, as opposed to saying it when he actually wants it.

My mum had a great idea. I wondered how I can see if he is what I want from a partner - reliable, family oriented, responsible etc - but without actually letting him into my life iyswim. We will be living separately for a while, but I need that time to make my mind up about him.
She suggested asking him to do a quick tidy or do a job just in passing and see if he makes an effort. And asking him to arrange things for ds and see if he manages it.
I suppose I am after someone who will help round the house, help with ds, arrange family days out (and later nights out for us as a couple) etc, and I wont know if he can do this until I 'test' him i suppose.
But I am aware that while I am 'testing him out', before I even consider the relationship aspect of it, I may be missing my chance to meet someone else. But then, how would I know if they are responsible, reliable, family orientated etc anyway?
And what bothers me is, if the tables were turned, would he be considering giving me a second chance? Doubt it somehow.

ratbunny you seem to articulate all of my concerns so well

even down to feeling as though you may be somehow 'wasting' time giving him a chance knowing full well what he's capable of doing to you

and the fact that I know, that if the tables were turned, H wouldn't be giving me this chance

I guess it boils down to different personalities, priorities and ways of dealing with things. Do we want someone who is a clone of us? Or do we love them for themselves, and because they are different... but at the same time can they be the husbands we need/deserve...

baffy - so how long have you and h been trying again? and where are you at - in a 'relationship;' with him? living together? I dont think I can go into either of those situations at all yet? I was figuring on seeing each other as friends - kind of, like a friend you are interested in, but not in a relationship with iyswim.
and how do you feel - is he making the effort? is it sustained? has he changed? is it worth it? do you still have doubts?
sorry for all the questions

H finished with OW in April. We started dating again in May. Was all going great.

OW turned up a few weeks ago - pregnant!

He's told her he doesn't want to be with her, and still wants to try with me. My head is in a total spin over that.

OW had a meal ticket new man in the background who she's now moved in with!

And at the moment, we're back together, in that we're seeing each other and spending our spare time together and as a family, he's making a massive effort and I'm taking one day at a time...

I've no idea if he can prove to me he's changed and now loves me enough to put this right.

But I meant my marriage vows and I'm giving it a try...

I have no idea if I can deal with what he's done. Let alone OW and the child! So I'm literally taking one day at a time. And we're living apart until I'm 100% sure that there is a future for us.

Baffy and others trying to move on after an affair, can i just ask how your family and friends have been about your choice to try again with dh?

I feel like h has completely destroyed his previously good relationship with my family, they feel as betrayed as me, that i cannot imagine how it could be rebuilt.

I don't really know why i am thinking like this as it is not even an issue for me atm as h shows no signs of wanting to try again but i can't help wondering if my family would be able to get over their own hurt and support me if it happened.

hope you don't mind me asking.

ambercat - I feel the same way. mum said if h and I could sort things out so they would be better than before, then that would be really good. It surprised me that she said that.
Friends are saying - be careful.
I agree, they feel as betrayed as I do. I have no idea how h would be with his (and my) best mate...

Just caught up again...

Baffy and UC, It is interesting what you say about familiarity - maybe sometimes we think "better the devil you know"!

I see it as an investment. I feel I have invested so much of my life in this relationship I dont feel ready to quit. Have had 3 dc, although I now feel that even their births are somehow tainted by what h did afterwards.

I read a really good book about affairs and it said that people think that people who have affairs are not getting enough at home but usually they are not giving enough. In hindsight this is true for us.

Amber - even after 9 months, I haven't told my Mum. We dont live close and I know what she is like. She would make life difficult for us afterwards. Obviously, if we do split up, I may have to say something.

omg Baffy. How will you cope when the Baby is born
will your husband want contact? I would find that so hard.

better the devil you know - kind of sums it up really doesnt it?

I haven't told my family yet. I know the reaction I'll get.

My closest friends know. And they're supportive, but I can tell they're not 100% sure I'm making the right decision.

And how can I blame them, when I'm not sure myself.

beanieb I have no idea

He'll want as much access as possible. As well as our ds to know his brother or sister. And I'll have to fully support him in that whether we're together or apart.
For the children's sake.

I'll have to find the strength from somewhere...

What a difficult situation Baffy. You can't even cut the ow out of your lives

That would have been my worst nightmare, I am so glad that h had the snip after dc3. I am convinced that he would have got ow pregnant otherwise, as he told me he never thought of using protection

stirlingmum, I agree with you about investment. I see this as an opportunity. An opportunity to really learn and grow, and value eachother properly. An opportunity to make something beautiful out of a god awful mess. But it's no good if only one of you sees it as that opportunity. Unfortunately, too many times, both parties do see that but not at the same time. I have a horrible feeling that the moment h might say he's made a mistake is the moment I realise I just don't want to know any more.

Oh god,I know timing is everything!

I dont know where h's head is at the moment. If truth be told, I know he is missing ow. When we talked on holiday he said he so regretted what had happened because he wanted her as a friend and now he realises that they cant go back to just being friends!

I think at the moment I see this more as an opportunity to rebuild and make stronger our relationship.

Funnily enough, now I am over the initial shock, (and I have lost 2 stone in the process) I am feeling more confident and more attractive (and that really helps, after 3 dc) I know that if he doesn't want me now he never will.

The next few months will be enough to know whether our marriage will last.

But I also feel strong enough to know that if our marriage doesn't work, I will survive (cue Gloria Gaynor....)

well, tonight h presented me with an email ow had sent him, regarding the break up. It would appear they had a full blown relationship, not just a fling. He only showed me after I told him I knew she had contacted him (calling his bluff basically). He said he didnt want to say anything cos he didnt want to hurt me anymore. So seems he still isnt fully open and honest.
And I do wish I hadnt read it. It tore me apart. But at least now I know the extent of his lies. Unfortunately it did also detail sex they had, so I have that image now in my head.

I know that he is really sorry, and really regretful. He says he wishes it never happened. But unfortunately it did, and now I know quite how much it was.

I was quite positive about us before, but now I know how much he lied, and how he was still willing to lie to 'protect' me, I am not so sure. It is better that we now have a level playing field. But I dont know if I can go back to someone who was capable of just throwing everything away for a proper relationship.

I told him I need time out from even thinking about 'us'. If he is worth it, he will be there for me, and wait for me. If not, well, then I would be better off without him.

Better the devil you know eh? Well, that what about when that devil has hurt you more than you ever imagined possible?

ratbunny

I think it's very common that the person who's had the affair wants to tell you as little as possible of the real truth. I know my H would lie and lie and lie if he thought that I wouldn't find out some of the awful finer details of what he'd done. Unfortunately for him, his OW was that much of a psycho that she'd make sure she told me anything that he omitted!

I do think it's common. They think they're protecting you. And also don't want to face up to what they really did.

Doesn't help the decision though does it