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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Glam & fab part 7 - from strength to strength

1000 replies

UC · 31/07/2008 22:16

Thought I'd start this one off on a positive spin? Hope you all find it..

OP posts:
ginnny · 08/09/2008 22:10

You're right. You deserve better.
We all do

MyHeadIsSpinning · 08/09/2008 22:11

But we all know that we are still going to fight for our 'old' lives just worry that it might not be the right thing to do

ginnny · 08/09/2008 22:18

Maybe these things happen for a reason?
When my dc's dad left me 6 years ago now, I desperately wanted him back and would have done anything, but looking back now I realise that I wasn't really happy with him and we weren't very well suited.
I look at him now and wonder why I loved him so much, he's not my type at all!!
I wish I could switch my feelings off for this one too.

MyHeadIsSpinning · 08/09/2008 22:25

Ginny

Ratbunny how are you? Having a better day?

Off to bed now will catch up in the morning. Night all x

Dior · 08/09/2008 22:51

Message withdrawn

HappyWoman · 09/09/2008 07:28

Hi everyone

Tannee - bad luck about not being choosen but at least you dont have to go knocking and begging on peoples doors as they are around here - i am going to put a sign on the door saying dont knock putting kids to bed!

MHIS - i dont think there is any harm in spelling it out - you cannot even make the first step to see if you want to get together if ow is still on scene. You owe him nothing but to give it a go on your terms. I fear that if you dont spell it out he will justify it by saying you were the one unwilling to try (and go crying to ow for comfort). He will find it scary but then so will you. Please dont feel bad for at least giving it your all. Or have you really decided you dont want him but are scared to say that too?

RB - it is hard to watch your h spiral down and feel powerless to stop it. Again i remember my h doing this - everyone could see it but him. He knew i was here for him but until he reached the bottom he was on self-destrct mission. It amazes me that ow could just watch it too!

MyHeadIsSpinning · 09/09/2008 08:45

Thanks Dior and HappyWoman.

Woke up with a horrendous headache - think through lack of sleep due to DD more than anything but is the last thing I need!

He has agreed to look at some childcare options with me - hopefully next week. Think I will see how this goes and see if there is an appropriate time to talk. Just that the main issue I have is telling him what to do and by going on about the OW and contact I feel that this is pushing him away - I know that he needs to stop seeing her and I can not tolerate ANY contact.

I suppose I am scared of pushing him into making a decision too. Worried that I will push him into making the wrong one if I give him an ultimatum (either giving us another go nad his heart not being in it or ending forever but then realising it's not the right decision). Also want him to make the decision for himself so that if he does decide that he wants to make a go of it he really does mean it.

Head hurts

Baffy - hope today is easier when you take DS to pre-school. I'm dreading tkaing DD to nursery when i have to go back to work. Even thinking about it makes me feel sick and cry!

ginnny · 09/09/2008 09:43

MHIS, you have no choice but to force him to make a decision. You can't carry on indefintely waiting for him to make his mind up. It will drive you mad.
Making wrong decisions is a risk we all take. That's life I'm afraid. We can't see into the future.
Hope your headache clears off and you feel better today.
Ratbunny, you are right, you have to step away and hope that he comes to his senses before any real damage is done.
I'm feeling positive today. It's XP's birthday today. I've sent him a card from the dc but made it clear I don't want to see him as I know he'll be celebrating in the pub. I feel like I'm moving on a bit more now and he is affecting me less and less.
Hope it lasts.

HappyWoman · 09/09/2008 09:51

MHIS - i do know how you feel - was having a clear up of computer yesterday and found some old emails which took me back to h dark time.

The trouble is you need to absolutly know there is no contact - my h said he wanted to come back but all the while she was still hanging around. The tension was awful - i knew it was not right - the more i asked for reassurances the more he could lie about it - i was seen as being unreasonable blah blah blah.... he finally made the decision to leave for good during a xmas holiday. It was horrendous really but i had my answer - i saw a solicitor within 3 days of that and got the ball rolling - not what i wanted but i had to do it.

H then had the most dramatic turnaround ever - after about a week he was back begging to come back - but very different - prepared to do everything it took - he was under no illusion that it would work and i was very very cautious too. He really did think he had blown it for good - as did i. I said there was no way i would even consider it until ow was told and she was off the secene for good. He told her - showed me the emails and texts and as far as i know never contacted her again. He actually said that the last time he saw her and we were not together it was awful - the fantasy had gone and he actually did not like her as a person anyway.

I am telling you this because if you know you cannot tolerate her in your life then you must be true to yourself and tell him and actually by not telling him you are allowing him to keep his options open. You will know when it feels right - when h came back it just felt so different and i knew she was not around anymore. (of course i still have my doubts and hate some of the things i think sometimes). The longer you allow this to go on the longer it will take to get over it - my regret is not being stronger earlier and i am sure now baffy will tell you the same thing.
Show him your limit and then let him do the work to meet you there.
Good luck - remember he has broken this and actually whatever you now do he has to do his bit to repair it.

HappyWoman · 09/09/2008 09:54

Thats right ginnny - there are no right or wrong decissions and if you already know that you cannot tolerate the ow in your life then you owe it to yourself and actually to him to tell him - this is not telling him what to do this is telling him what YOUR needs are, if he accetpts and is willing to forfill your needs then good if not then he really is not worthy of you.

MyHeadIsSpinning · 09/09/2008 16:42

Hmm thanks HW - didn't think of it like that. Not going to do/say anything this week - giving him chance to start proving himself. But as I say may talk on Monday

Baffy · 09/09/2008 17:13

Sorry everyone's still having such a rubbish time

HW you have some great advice, as always

DS was great yesterday but much worse today. Hung off me when I took him in. Then the teachers said he was upset for 45 minutes! He's only there for 2.5 hours!!

When I picked him up he hugged me and clung on to me and said 'mummy, I cried and cried' and when I asked him why he said 'because YOU left me'! Guilt trip or what!!
I'm keeping the enthusiasm and the happy smiley faces though. I bet this is quite normal and I'm sure it will do him the world of good.
Potty training next...
Oh the joy!

Tanee your lodger sounds exhausting!! Interesting. But exhausting!

Dior · 09/09/2008 18:35

Message withdrawn

Lilyloo · 09/09/2008 19:43

Baffy i would give him a week or so. He has to realise that even though you leave you come back. Has he ever done nursery or just with your mum ? How things with you and h ?

MHIS hope the headache cleared. I agree with others by telling him you can't begin to move on or think about it with ow in the picture is completely acceptable and not in anyway promising him a future together just the first step towards seeing if it can work.

Ratbunny it must be so hard and Ginny among others has had the experience of watching a loved one on self destruct. For most of the women on here they have had to walk away. Only he can help himself.

Ginny glad you feeling you can make the break. Hope he doesn't end up too drunk as he seems to have been making a little effort lately.

Where is PC she been very quiet lately hope you ok!

Tannee sorry about election and agree your lodger sounds fun

to everyone else.
Got a phone call from work today asking about coming back. Told them Jan and felt my heart strings pull looking at dd. I really don't want to go back and as i said before it's for very little money after childcare. Actually childcare more than my wage but will get a little back from tax credits! But we really need the money at the minute so have no choice. Feel so pissed off. I didn't sign up for this life. And am so cross that dp jumped head first into his buisness to get away from ow and that situation and now it's all gone pear shaped we are in so much debt and sinking fast
I should be able to stay at home with the dc's !
Sorry for moan and know things may have turned out the same anyway but am so worried at the minute about how we are going to manage and yet again it all seems to come back to 'that'

Tanee58 · 09/09/2008 20:23

Lily, would you be able to /afford to go back part time? I found that worked with DD, though financially it was a struggle. But then my adult life has been nothing BUT a financial struggle, so hay ho.

Baffy, it's normal. He needs the reassurance that you WILL come back to him. Would you be able to leave him for a shorter period, and gradually build up? Or if work commitments won't allow this, just keep reminding him that Mummy DID come back, and that you would never leave him forever. It's particularly hard for the first week or so. I remember DD being not too bad, but some of her playgroup mates were inconsolable. It was SO hard to watch one girl standing at the window with tears streaming down her face as her mother walked away - but she got used to it after some time and seemed to enjoy school.

MHIS - I know your counsellor said you mustn't ask him for things, but this point of no contact seems like something you MUST ask for, if you are to move on - whether it means you get back together or not, it's a risk HE has to take, if he wants to prove he's serious about trying again. Then it's up to you to decide whether that's what you want. But you can't know one way or the other unless or until he makes that final, total break with OW. When my exH asked me to break with He Who Is Now DP, I knew I couldn't - that's why we separated and rapidly divorced. I didn't want to hurt him any more than I had already, but I had to admit that, though I'd had an affair, I couldn't end that affair. It was hard for him, but at least he knew where he stood.

Ratbunny, so sorry to hear about H's problems -and particularly the poor dog. I only killed a pigeon once and that felt bad enough. How are you?

Ernest - how are you? Hope H is coming to realise that you are especially vulnerable at the moment and he needs to give you every reassurance that he finds you attractive and doesn't want to flirt, even harmlessly, with anyone else.

Dior & Lily, I'm actually very relieved I wasn't chosen, though the campaign manager said he thought the panel were mad not to pick me. I have to admit it's the allowance that attracted me - it would take all the pressure off our finances. I really don't relish knocking on people's doors. HW, your idea of a sign is a good one ! I've agreed to go canvassing tomorrow at 6.30pm - that's not a good time, is it? Prime putting children to bed time But I want to be home in time for Lost in Austen!

Well, had our first Relate. It seemed to go well, aired the grievances a bit. I was surprised that DP said he's only wanted to buy a place together because he thought it was wrong that DD still didn't have a room of her own. I thought it was because he couldn't bear living without me . He said again that he'd have preferred to keep our own places (150 miles apart) - I said that wouldn't have suited me indefinitely, though it was romantic whilst it lasted. He did say again that he felt less negative since the original Relate session 3 months ago. The problem seems to be finding a way for him to feel this is his home - though he says he's never had a real sense of home anywhere.

Anyway, we've come home and he's locked himself in the kitchen listening to Cat Stevens (my old CD player in the front room has broken, which rather limits our music options). He was very quiet so I've left him to it. I dread going in and finding he's halfway through his first bottle of wine, but we need to eat. I feel very peculiar about it all. Glad we've started Relate, but not sure what to do when we come home. Not helped by cheery lodger coming in all full of beans, though she's said she feels very tired by the rush of London and has gone upstairs. I know when she comes down for dinner, she'll stay chatting till bedtime, when ideally I'd like to just relax and pose for DD's life class homework.

ratbunny · 09/09/2008 20:30

mhis - I am feeling ok, thanks! I am kind of resigned to the fact we probably wont get back because he wont make the effort and I wont wait. So, I am much more relaxed. having said that, he is calling in the evening to tell me things (like something on tv I might like), and is coming over tonight cos his house is empty. But I am under no illusions. wont press about ow cos I dont really care at the mo.
it took ages to reach this mindset - you are right, all the questions push him away and he wont give her up til he is ready. but I know it helps me. (((mhis))

hw - in what way did your h spiral down? and how is it now you are together again? not being nosey, but I keep having bad dreams where we are together and he is like he is now.

baffy - how old is your ds? he will be fine you know, we see this all the time slightly off tangent, but the start of the school year always makes me laugh, cos deep down, NO BODY wants to be there - not the kids OR the teachers

tannee - hi! was lol at your lodger! how did you get someone like that!

I am desperately ignoring the fact I am off to Poland this friday.... ignoring the packing, and preparing ds's food, and finding the passports and health cards, and sorting a dog sitter, and even the thought of entertaining ds. lalalalala, not listening to my nagging brain!

MyHeadIsSpinning · 09/09/2008 21:59

Ratbunny I am convinced our DH were seperated at birth. DH txt me on Sunday to say that there was a programme on that I wanted to watch!!

I emailed him last night to tell him when I am free to look at nurseries with him. He hadn't replied and my inital thought was that he had ignored me to be 'in control/mean'. However I didn't ask if he could make the date I'd suggested when her picked DD up tonight and he didn't mention it either. However when he brought her back he used it as a conversation starter when I made it clear it was time to go - he came into the house and closed the door tried making conversation etc. I quickly made arrangements with him.

Then again said goodbye politely! He once again tried to make conversation with me. I took control of the situation and said (thought DD) 'bye bye Daddy see you later in the week' and he went off!

All very polite.

I feel stronger when I call the shots re contact and he seems to respond better - wnating to talk etc.

I'm hoping that his willingness to come and look at nurseries is a start of him putting me and DD first. I'm not gettin gmy hopes up but niether do I want to slate him constantly

Anniegetyourgun · 09/09/2008 22:08

Hello wave

I'm still alive. It's taken me about 3 hours to catch up with everyone's hectic lives - too tired to comment now except to say... wow...

Take care y'all.

Anifrangapani · 09/09/2008 22:13

Damn you peeps talk.... I have only just caught up.

MHIS - the ultimatum with the OW was the turning point with DH. I said he could go I would be happy for the kids to have access, therefore I knew that if he stayed it was because of me and not because of "family". I pointed out to him that I would be upset if he left ( espcially for her), but it was better to move on as quickly as possible. You asked me before how did I go about making the decission to stay with him so quickly - I tried to see myself in 10 years without him and couldn't.

Baffy - sorry you are having such a shit time of it atm. Hope things improve soon. As for school ds will be fine.

hugs to those that need them xxx

Dior · 09/09/2008 22:23

Message withdrawn

Anifrangapani · 09/09/2008 22:27

Of course Dior.... I am in a happy place too atm except moments of rage against OW who is an ex friend, so am annoyed about her betrayal as well. I mean really at what point did she think shagging her friends dh was going to fix her screwed upp life?

macdoodle · 09/09/2008 23:53

ok can someone tell me how I should feel tonight - feel very proud of myself and looking forward, but also very and a bit ???
Tonight is my night out, H comes and "babysits" kids and usually stays over.....sometimes we have sex NOT good for my self esteem, as feel he must be shagging someone if not OW as he has very high sex drive and once every few weeks with me would not be enough
So mad rush as always, finish work, rush to get girls from 2 different places, he has closed shop early to have a drink before he comes, get home sort everything out, DD1 off to brownies, DD2 in bed just about to have quick bath and change, when he arrives all pissed and tries to get it on all soppy, telling me he loves me always loved me, fancies me, misses me etc etc....and I just start crying real sad tears, all I can think is last time he told me all these things I believed him and trusted him and thought we could get through it and all along he was still shagging OW until she got pregnant....and I can't open myself to him again, I can't trust him because it would kill me if he did it again
So I guess it is me, much as I love him I can't get past this I can't live like this
I try to tell him try to be calm and grown up and explain how I feel how I need him to show me that he means what he says before I let him in and what does he do...his usual gets angry and abusive ...and tells me it was all my fault and I got lazy in bed
Ten years together and the whole mess was my fault because I was "lazy in bed"
He will never get it never change never grow up, he thinks sex will "fix it" and make it all better - what he means is it will control me and keep me hanging on waiting for him Kept asking me if I had someone else because that must be the only reason I don't want to sleep with him
The whole night I have been out, he has been texting saying he will get taxi when I come home, won't stay...this is all manipulative to get me to say no don't go, stay, DD1 will be upset...but I don't just stay really calm and let him call taxi and he has gone......I didn't get drawn into his game I didn't give in to his manipulation...so I feel proud...and if he really did want to be with me then the sex wouldn't matter and he would do whatever I needed to prove that to me...but he didn't and he never will ....maybe we can move forward now maybe ?????

HappyWoman · 10/09/2008 07:35

only read your post mcd. I think you know him too well it is a game still to him. You got lazy in bed - tell him it was because he was actually not that good himself.

I think you know what you need to do - you are understandably very scared of doing that. I would put a lot of money on him wanting you back if you suddenly did have someone else too.

He really had long enough to 'get it' by now though hasnt he? Except of course that will be your fault too - you didnt spell it out to him in big letters .

I had a couple of funny phone calls yesterday - one where someone was laughing. It brought back a lot of the old feelings too - H has been very understanding - but i just hate the fact that everything seems to put me back to then - will it ever end.

I wnat to believe h so much but a tiny voice keeps reminding me what a good liar he was before so beware.
Logic tells me he would not gain anything from that - but it feels awful too even thinking these things.

Going to try and keep extra busy today and only answer phone if i know the number in advance.

buzzybee · 10/09/2008 07:59

Macdoodle, good on you, good on you, good on you!!! Yes he is manipulating you - and they say women are manipulative!! My ex-H tried that "lazy in bed" line on me and I told him straight that I needed a bit more foreplay which he was rubbish at and he shut up. Men are very sensitive about "performance" so if he wants to open that particular can of worms....
Watching my two DDs together for me makes the world seem like a much better place, even doing it on my own.

Tanee58 · 10/09/2008 09:33

MacD, morning. You SHOULD feel proud - you did exactly the right thing. Of course he is manipulating you. I would be & too, though - it's natural you should feel those after what he's put you through, and what he's STILL putting you through. I think HW is right - he probably would get all possessive and insecure if you had someone else - and that time will come .

Dior, don't leave us - we're thrilled that you are happy - it was your story that got me onto this thread and meeting all of you in the first place. It feels so good to see how you've come on in the past 18 months.

Me, I had a difficult night. After admitting in Relate that he doesn't handle alcohol well and uses it to escape, DP did exactly that. He was ok before dinner, we had a little dance while the food was warming, but he didn't join us for dinner, had some cheese and wine in the kitchen and was very low when I went into the kitchen after dinner. Said he was dealing with a lot of feelings and didn't want company, even mine . So I left him to it. Don't know if lodger noticed - she must have thought it odd after three days of social meals round the table, but we were all tired and went to bed early. He stayed up and I found him asleep on the sofa, 2 empty bottles and an undrunk final glass in front of him. Just draped a quilt over him, turned off the lights and tuner and left him to it. He came up to bed about 7.30am but said nothing except that there was a cat's hairball outside the spare room (at least he removed it, but left the stain for me to clean).

Meanwhile, I'd lain in bed all night, sleeping sometimes and lying awake going over all the past two years, wondering where it all went wrong, and where do we go from here. It felt pretty bleak at times, but I suppose it's only been the first session, and like any illness, you feel worse before you start to feel better. At the moment I definitely feel worse - we were ok before we went in, he even said, 'well, what do we say - that it's all right now?' - but after - well, nothing feels all right - except I think of that little dance to Ella in front of the pasta, and try to hold onto that - that he does love me - he just can't cope with living with me.

Got to go to work now. Shall not be knocking on people's doors tonight. Feel emotionally exhausted and I just don't feel like being 'groomed' for local politics now. I want a strong home life first. Politics broke up my boss's already shaky marriage, and I don't intend to go the same way. I also wish we didn't have to have lodgers - but my overdraft requires it. It's such a strain trying to be cheerful and sociable when all you want to do is crawl into a hole.

Sorry, this is all me - I AM thinking of all of you, too, but just feel generally yuck.

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