Glam & fab part 7 - from strength to strength

[UC]

Thought I'd start this one off on a positive spin? Hope you all find it..

Lily I posted on your thread but I'm probably not much help!! Hope dd is OK.
PC tbh I'd probably take them straight from school Friday afternoon or maybe first thing Sat morning. I've never driven that far on my own before, but I guess there's a first time for everything. Need to get myself a sat nav then I'll be fine!!!
Ex (boys dad) has just asked if he can take them to meet his new girlfriend and her son on Saturday. She wants to meet me as well . Its all moving very fast and I still don't think OW knows about new gf. I love it .
Twatface has apologised for yesterday too.
I don't think he can remember what he said just that it wasn't very nice!!!

Morning everyone

Lilyloo hope DD is better.

Ratbunny good on you for standing your ground my DH is trying a similar tack.

DH came round last night and saw DD here. We had a long chat - kind of initiated by me - despite me wanting any discussion to come from him.

There were some tears on my part (nothing uncontrollable just emotions and mainly surrounding his lask of support when DD was in SCBU)- first time I have cried infront of him since I asked him to leave. Wanted to remain strong but on the other hand I know I have nothing to be ashamed of and feeling upset and hurt is a normal reaction. Last night it felt right that he saw that.

We talked about the general situation and some specific events. He seemed visbily upset a few times. We talked about how both of us were feeling and he told me that over the years he has sometimes felt rejected by me. I admit that there is a mismatch of sex-crive - not massively and that generally he is more touchy feely that I am.

Upshot of the conversation is that he is unhappy with how things are. He wants to be happy again with me like we were this time last year when I was pregnant with DD (his words). He admits tho that he still has some feelings for OW and is in contact via work and they do still txt each other - on his part for something to do!!. He says that their relationship is over tho .

I pointed out that by txting her he is still carrying on the relationship. He agreed that the txting has to stop and he does realise that he is jepordising his chance with me by doing so. He said that he doesn't like to be alone and although that is no excuse that is why he is finding it hard to cut all ties completely but he is working on it He kind of said that it was partly because I wasn't responsive to his attempts at conversation when he comes to pick up DD I pointed out that I find 'normal' conversation impossible after what has happened and he agreed.

I asked if he had slept with her since we split. He said that he hasn't. Has admitted to a few hugs and kisses after work.

He said that they both realise that they don't have a future together because he can't give her 100% because of how he feels about me and they realise that they are both too needy to have a relationship together. However he can't commit 100% to me either whilst he still has feelings for her.

He said that he was thinking of asking to spend some time alone with me last weekend to try and spend some time together and try to work things out but didn't - because he was unsure how I would react.

I remained firm on that he needs to make the effort to make ammends for what he has done. He understands that I may never be able to forgive him and we may never have a relationship ever again. He also understands that I have to move on and I am doing that. He also realises the more I move on whilst he dithers about the harder it will be for him to have a chance of catching up and coming along with me.

He seemed to 'get it' a bit more last night but said that he is struggling to make ammends because of the lack of contact we have. He said that he tried with buying me a birthday present and washing my car etc. I said that he should be going out of his way to bend over backwards to make it up to me and it's not always about doing things it's about NOT doing things - ie NOT being in contact with OW.

I told him what I would need for us to ever have a chance at a future. I told him that I and our relationship would have to come above EVERYTHING else. Which included him not working with OW - apparently she is applying for other jobs. He said that he can't get another job - quite a specific job and nothing local.

He said that he is trying to change. He feels that talking and time apart is helping. He said that he has been looking on the internet about getting through affairs, trying again etc. I told him I had bought 'After the Affair' self help book and offered it to him. He wanted to read it and has taken it.

Sorry that is a very me me me post but needed to get it out. Any advice appreciated

Oh MHIS, At the risk of sounding brutal, having read that I don't think he wants to get back together with you. Whether that's just at the moment or permanently who knows.

Sorry but "a few hugs and kisses" I really wouldn't believe that. And he admits to having feelings for her still. He IS still in a relationship with her no matter how he dresses it up.

Hopefuly, HW, Baffy, et al will be along shortly with some words of wisdom for you. What a horrible situation.

MHIS, sounds to me like a very productive conversation.

There are no immediate answers to any of this. You are voicing your needs and emotions to him and that's a great place to start. In fact, it's the only place that you can be right now. Being open and honest with each other about what you want/how you feel etc gives you both the information you need to help you go forward. In whatever direction that might be.

You can't influence him in any other way and being true to yourself and maintaining your own integrity is what will keep you strong and healthy in all of this.

Remember that what you want today may not be what you want tomorrow or next week. As time goes by he either will or he won't step up to the plate as you wish him to and in that time your own outlook and desires may change too.

I think it's really positive that he has tried to explain where he is making an effort. Even if that effort doesn't conform to your idea of what the "bending over backward" actions might be. It would seem like he is thinking about and doing things that he thinks will show you.

There does have to be a point at which you allow normality to resume tho. You can't expect him to bend over backwards infinitely. Bearing that in mind, at what point do you think he will have done enough?

IME, at this stage of the process that's a very difficult thing to define. Difficult in practical terms but also emotional terms. It's a big and scary thing to decide at what point you are going to "let it go".

That's a brilliant comment about proving his comittment to you by what he doesn't do as much as what he does. I really hope he takes that on board.

I know you're not 100% certain of what you want long term and I think that's perfectly normal and reasonble. I think as time goes by you will naturally figure out what you do want/need.

In the meantime, to help you focus your mind, could you start to consider at what point and under what circumstances you would be able to draw the line under what has happened.

If you can do that and then communicate that to him then you both have a point at which to aim. Some direction in moving forward and something for you both to aim for.

It's not carved in stone, things change daily and in doing this you are not making him any promises but it does give you a framework.

However this works out, you will be co-parenting dd and you need to have an amicable relationship for that.

Lilyloo is LO OK?? Bit worried you are normally about??
MHIS well done you ...more later gotta go baby just woken up

Lily - how is dd now? Did you take her to the doctors in the end?
MHIS - its really good that you had that conversation and got things out in the open. It seems that he wants to make things work but he is not really making enough effort. He should have no contact at all with OW (and as for hugs and kisses and texts only not sure I'd believe that). They have agreed they can't be together so they need to cut all ties.
I think you will have to meet him half way though, being distant and unresponsive towards him seems to be pushing him away, I don't mean rush into his arms, but maybe offer an olive branch, be friendly but not over friendly and see if he takes your lead on that. The last thing you want to do is keep the barriers up and drive him away for good, that's assuming you do want to make a go of things at some point in the future.
At the end of the day I agree with PC, you will have to have a relationship of some sort for your dd and it will be so much better for her if its amicable.

Grabshell Dude - I don't beleive 100% anything he says - so no I can't trust that he hasn't slept with her - and I have told him that. I have also told him that I feel he only tells me the bare minimum he can get away with. He kind of admitted that this is the case.

I know he is far from making ammends on this and I am so scared that I have done the wrong thing by talking to him. My counsellor says that the only way forward at this stage is NO conversation. She warned me that by 'breaking' too soon I risk ever having a relationship with him if that is what I choose in the future. I must admit the not talking has made him want to talk more but I am now scared that it was the wrong thing to do

I am about to email him to say that I am still hurt by what has happened and what is still going on but that talking last night helped. I want to suggest that we should talk more (which is what we agreed last night)but that we maybe do this via email or if in person we set a time limit on talking.

Bad idea? good idea?

MHIS, I am quite at what your counsellor has said.

Actually, I'm really by it and don't understand why they would say something like that.

It's not "staring" competition to see who "breaks" first.

This is your life, the father of your child, how on earth can you resist having a productive, adult, rational and reasonable conversation with him about your situation?

No, you don't want to smother him with needyness and that is certainly not what you are doing.

I agree with you that he needs to see the effect of his behaviour so a few tears etc are a good think IMO.

Email him for sure. Thank him for his honesty, tell him you appreciate being able to discuss these things without acrimony etc. I don't think I'd go as far as telling him you feel better from it tho. IMO that's TMI about you. But, I think it's a good way to encourage more frank and open conversation and it will give him a sense of having got something right as I am sure he is very easily falling into "poor pitiful me".

His comments about perpetuating with the OW "for something to do" are revealing. He is feeling the pinch of lonliness and attempting to stave that off. It's not fair to you, himself or even OW. He needs to feel the full force of the consequences of his actions in that regard.

You don't want him limping back because he's lonely in his bedsit.

Thanks paddlechick - The angle my counsellor comes from is that if he thinks it is only a matter of time before I have him back he won't make the effort and that he needs to miss me. I can see that and I also realise that it has worked which is why I am scared that speaking to him was the wrong thing to do.

I will send the email now

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MHIS, tbh your counsellor cannot be speculative on what your H may or may not do unless you are in joint session.

He can/should only deal with your emotional well being in this.

Is he giving you advice on how to "get him back" or giving you counselling for how to deal with this situation in as healthy a way as possible?

In the main, a counsellor should not give you advice. Their job is to help you cope with your own feelings and emotions. To understand your own actions and reactions etc.

I've had counselling for my situation in the past and the most common theme has been the counsellor telling me to "stop constantly considering H, explaining H, justifying H and focus on ME!"

I agree that he needs to drop OW Dior. The book I have leant to him ' After The Affair' is good in that it looks at affairs from all three angles, the person having the affir, the OW and the person who has been betrayed. It looks at the feelings all three go through during nad inthe aftermath of an affair. He seemed keen to read it which is unlike him so I feel that is positive.

He has been doing his own research too on how to work at a relationship.

It still hurts like hell that he is seeing the OW in whatever capacity but I kind of knew he would be still seeing her so not a massive blow iykwim.

I have changed the email to from saying the conversation was helpful to it was productive

I can see where your counsellor is coming from, but advising NO conversation at all is taking it a bit far. Of course he needs to see the consequences of his actions and he has to miss you and realise what he's potentially lost, but conversations like the one you just had are the way forward for you both. You need to talk things through and know how the other is feeling, then you can hopefully move towards putting things right.
I agree with Dior (I usually do . He must make a choice and stick to it. Unfortunately this is something a lot of men find very hard to do

I've sent the email [worried, sick feeling have i done the right thing emoticon]

Paddlechick - we did have some sessions together - although this was before DH admitted the affair was sexual and he lied through all the sessions.

The counsellor does repeatedly tell me to focus on myself and what I want which is why I think she doesn't want me to talk about 'us' with DH. She thinks that I obsess about his feeling and what he wants rather than actually thinking about what I really want.

This is true

I'm trying to bear her advice in mind BUT also go with my own instinct. Trouble is that I am not sure if my instinct can be trusted

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lol Ratbunny - I agree about the benchmark moving each year Mother's bias

MHIS- I think your talk was very productive and fwiw I think the counsellor's advice is unsound. You need to keep the lines of communication open. That can still be on your terms entirely. I think he is still trying to work out what he wants and seems a bit lost. I agree he needs to stop contact with the ow completely. Then you will be able to make some progress together. In my situation, h was very ready to ditch the ow who was just a casual shag and immediately ready to do all the necessary work to try and win back my trust. Though it is a damn shame that he didn't come clean at first. Someone who was always honest and trustworthy reduced to a dishonest cheat with a dick for a brain.

Lilyloo - how is your dd? Hope she is ok hun.

Ladylush - does your DH still work woth the OW? If so how do you handle it?

MHIS - yeah but today is his last day at that company . He starts a new job next week. She was full of false promises to leave along with her false remorse. He had the right idea to start looking straight away. Unfortunately it has taken 6 months to get a new job. I did find it hard especially as they sit so close to each other at work. His desk is next but one to hers. He's having his leaving do on friday and has not invited her. Wonder if she will still turn up. Apparently she was quite taken aback when he asked her not to come. What does she expect

anifrangapani - sorry to hear of your situation I think it is natural to think of the ow as the guity party when in fact it was your h who betrayed you. That's not to say that ow isn't to blame cos of course she is. When I discovered h had been cheating I rang up ow and asked her for dates, facts etc. I was strangely clinical about it. I didn't see the point in ranting and raving at her because I knew it would be futile. She may have shagged my h but she wasn't going to see me lose my dignity! However, I have fantasised many times about revenge. Sending creepy crawlies through the post, fish, mice, putting up a huge poster on the outside of their office window outing them and their sordid trysts. Oh yes..........and much more. As time went by, these fantasies occupied my mind less and less I am pleased to say

Hi Anifrangipani - you crept in so quietly there we didn't notice you
These feelings are normal, but revenge is a dish best served cold. She?ll get what she deserves in her life, while you will keep you dignity and move on with your head held high.
(Although its so therapeutic to think about smashing her face in every now and then

I wanted to say hi Anifrangapani - of course you are angry with OW it is early days - I know you would like to hurt her back (I had running her over fantasies when I was going through it) seriously though dont go there. Just look at Baffys experience...she has been through 2 years of hell - handled it with dignity and the OW is now reaping what she has sown!! She may get Baffys ex but she knows she is the scraggy dirty straw filled soft toy when what he really wanted to win was the goldfish (Baffy!)

MHIS my gut feeling is that your DHs problems (whatever he says) stem from the problems you had around the birth - men try so hard to be strong and often rather than deal with their feelings will run away from them. If you have been together some time and have had no previous problems - thats my theory for what its worth A guy who lives locally couldnt cope with the fact that his girlfriend was having really heavy duty treatment for cancer so did he deal with it by being there for her and looking after their baby, did he hell, he had an affair and conceived another child with the OW!!

Obviously we dont know your whole history but the advice you are getting doesnt make sense to me either...how will things get better unless you discuss them at some point? At the end of the day councellors are just people they will bring their own bias with them - Im not saying there is no benefit in going just that they are not always right

I think the situation for you and ratbunny is similar...both men have expressed the desire to repair the relationships but they cannot think they can just walk back in drop their dirty washing and carry on where they left off - they have proven themselves not to be the person you thought they were and they need to give you the opportunity to decide if you like the person they really are enough for you to continue a relationship with them. You want to know that they are there because the love only you, they need to acknowledge that they have been in the wrong - treat you like a new girlfriend and win you back. The OW must be out of the picture completely, cut off all contact (even texting...hugging & kissing fgs!!) and concentrate on you You have to admire his honesty if not his behavour...I dont think they ever get how important honesty is to us.

I know it sounds horribly sexist but I do think of men as being like cats...if you dont stroke them they will just find someone else who will! You may be their first choice but they like a comfortable life and will settle for second best if they have to.

WW - totally agree with your excellent post but I have to disagree with you on the cat thing. My cat has WAY more integrity and scruples than my h I would say they are more like dogs as I prefer cats

Also I think goldfish does not come close to describing Baffy but ikwym

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Im biased our cat P*d off to pastures new when we were little and next doors cat used to spend all its time trying to get in here when they were at work and fawn all over me...urgh I cant bear animals (or men) that fawn