What on earth am I playing at

[youfoolwoman]

I have a male friend I have know for many years in a purely platonic way. We are both in long and happy marriages.

Recently, I seem to have gained a new sense of self-confidence, which seems to have made me attractive to men for practically the first time in my life (several have mentioned it and I am simply not used to that kind of thing) Anyway this friend is among them and we have been spending more and more time together, although we have not slept together and I am determined we won't, he has made it clear he would like to.

This is very difficult to explain and I have given it a lot of thought, but whilst I am very flattered and enjoying the attention, I honestly don't find him physically attractive. I have tried fantasising about him (to test myself) and it really doesn't work, he just doesn't turn me on. But, I do love the time we spend together, he's great fun and the hours fly by.

There has recently been some touching e.g if it's a cold evening, he'll put an arm round me, or (even more )he has been known to massage my shoulders. For me this just feels companionable and really cosy TBH, but I know it's not like that for him.

Neither of us have ever met the other's spouse, so it somehow seems that when we're together we're living in a kind of parallel reality, the lives we live with our families are somehow part of a completely different life IYSWIM.

I know I need to spend less time with him, but we share a desk at work so it's not that easy and in any case I would be losing a really valued friend. We have talked about it and agreed it can never become anything more than it is, but that we really enjoy each other's company. Neither of us is unhappy at home and would never ever want it to impact on that. So on the face of it, we remain just good friends, but the reality is that when we're together there's always something in the air.

We could make sure that there are always others there when we're together, but the fact is we have a better time when we're alone. You know how if you have a really good girl friend, it's fun to go out with a group, but you have the best conversations when it's just the two of you?

I can't help thinking we're playing with fire and it can only end badly. Can anyone see a way for us to stay friends, without hurting people we love and/or ending up hating each other? Thank you if you got to the end. I'm really struggling to see a way forward for this friendship, but it would be a massive loss to me if it has to end. I've known him for almost 20 years.

LOL @ dittany getting lessons in assertiveness from GND

Oh my, that's really made my day

well said mp skidoodle I haven't said he is continually coming on to me have I?

I don't like the way "we" the wives always want to blame the woman. I would think she should know better than to come on to a married man, but ultimately my Dh's response is his responsibility.

There has been an affair in our office, married man with a divorced woman. Why is she the "wicked" one and he's almost a hero?

Dittany you seem to have a very depressing view of men as sexual predators and women as either air-headed bimbos or evil teasers. It is rather extraordinary.

but dittany to be blunt, you didn't tell him where to go, he told you. There's a big difference between being aggressive and assertive. I am very assertive, but I know to choose my battles and being called darling would really not wind me up that much. My boss calls me Treacle. He does it because he thinks it might annoy me and to get a laugh. He also gives me top marks in all my appraisals, so I really don't think he disrespects me that much.

Dittany you are the only one who has mentioned sexual harrassment, as far as I can see, which isn't really relevant to the issue

Sorry, I got the impression that he had made his desire clear on several occasions when you were alone and that it was now implied in all your interactions. Apologies if I've misunderstood.

If my DH had an affair I would blame both him and the OW.

"There has been an affair in our office, married man with a divorced woman. Why is she the "wicked" one and he's almost a hero?"

Your basic common or garden sexism.

They're both wicked.

YFW, I feel sorry for you that you are taking such a 'bashing' from lots of us, especially as you have said you will be more careful around him to protect his feelings and you will be careful because we have made you think you could suddenly fancy him and lose control.

It is such an emotive issue though, especially for people who have had experience of different sides of it, and you were brave to put yourself out there for 'attack'. It is useful for others of us as well I think, to read it all and carry on discussing it and clarifying what we think in our own minds (and venting their own stuff in some cases).

It has really struck me what some of you said: you can get closer and closer to someone and you think you don't fancy them/love them when you suddenly have a moment of enlightenment when you see the beauty in them and then it is really hard to stop. This has happened to me several times and I was still too naive til recently to realise that if you let yourself get close to a man beyond a certain point, even if it's only talking about deep things, then you risk falling for them or them falling for you.

So if you are already with someone and you don't want to complicate it then you must actively limit the intensity of any friendships with other men and be clear about your boundaries in your own mind and to the man. I just didn't 'get' this until reading threads like this recently so it has been really useful for me.

It is all very well some of you saying it is harmless flirting and helps you feel good about yourself but for a lot of people (most people, just because they are human) they are taking a risk and should be more careful unless they know that they have iron self control.

I think some of us are more prone to accidentally falling in love than others, especially if you hadn't generally felt attractive to men and then suddenly you are noticing that they are finding you attractive (like YFW). When they make you feel wanted it can be really addictive if you have low self esteem. One of you said something like - you could start feeling more than you should, not because of who/what that man is, but because you get addicted to the way he makes you feel. So even if you don't think you fancy him (like in YFW's situation, he might make you feel so good that you get so you do fancy him.

Even if you don't have low self esteem, a bit of boredom after you have been married for years could make the excitement of all this stuff addictive, and that's what I believe falling in love is, addiction to seeing that person.

Sorry to type so much, I am feeling philosophical and using your thread to clarify my own life. Thank you for starting it. I hope it has been useful for you too x

"but dittany to be blunt, you didn't tell him where to go, he told you. There's a big difference between being aggressive and assertive."

And that difference is often a penis.

It's the same question as why the woman is wicked and the man is a stud.

Men are allowed to be assertive, women who assert themselves are called aggressive and shrill.

Just because someone uses their power in an unfair way against you doesn't mean you were wrong to stick up for yourself.

Even if you were naive. Sometimes losing battles are still worth fighting.

"That's why I said at the start I have a feeling it can only end badly. I do love DH very much, which is why I have already said I will make sure I spend much less time with my friend."

Well you knew the answer all along then

Still be very careful to gently ease away from the situation, you dont want this to blow up on you! Good Luck.

Dittany I think you are very unfair calling this man 'the office sleaze'. That is exactly what I mean by you plopping people into categories. He is obviously a really good friend to the OP and name calling is really unhelpful.

"So if you are already with someone and you don't want to complicate it then you must actively limit the intensity of any friendships with other men and be clear about your boundaries in your own mind and to the man."

I'm not convinced about this. What do bisexuals do, exactly?

GND is almost certainly an OW - she pops up and defends them staunchly on every thread this comes up on ....IMO OW are weak willed tarts who are incapable of saying NO and deserve everything they get including the man who is clearly an arse anyway !

Ah I see which direction this is taking

look YFW - I have never met you before on here but you seem to have a good perspective on this and know what you are doing AND you are talking to DP about it.

I still can't see the problem - I think you have made decisions and are capable of self control - I am a little shocked that some people on here think you can't.

dittany - i can see your point about sexual harrassment - but where is the harrassment here? you have also made judgements about this man without evidence.

Just because people aren't stamping down on men calling them treacle doesn't mean they aren't assertive - some people like their feminism a little more subtle I guess.

I think there are too many people using this thread to air their own grievances, and who have a very one-sided view of too many issues.
I always feel very sorry for anyone who starts any topic along these lines, because the responses are just so predictable.

Anonymity is a wonderful thing isn't it?

OP- I hope you have found some suggestions useful and can ignore the rather bitchy comments that inevitably go with any such topic.

if my dh ever gets another office job im getting him a chastity belt.

dittany sorry, but yes you did "I'm not afraid to tell asshole men like that where to go "

You're wrong about him only asking those junior to him too. He's actually quite junior (although middle aged, like me) himself. He enjoys banter with the regional director when he visits too.

You've obviously had a horrible experience, but I promise you that is not what's going on here. If you want to discuss harassment, can I respectfully suggest you start a thread of your own.

BBBee you're right. My boss calls me treacle, he also tells anyone who will listen how good I am at my job and listens and puts into action any suggestions I make. I am assertive, in that no-one would say it to me if I didn't like it, but I happen not to mind. Perhaps that is why dittany was hounded out of a job and I have generally had a happy and successful working life. No point being assertive if it doesn't get you what you want. There are many ways to skin a rabbit, or something like that

I just started the thread to ask opinions on whether, once a longstanding friendship has turned into a sexual attraction, it is possible to remain friends.

It has helped a lot to be able to chat it through, it has also made me realise how lucky I am to have worked for over 20 years and never have been harassed

"I just started the thread to ask opinions on whether, once a longstanding friendship has turned into a sexual attraction, it is possible to remain friends."

Oops, I thought it was to get opinions on what you should do short term.

Answer to this questions: a qualified yes.

You've been friends for 20 years without any harm coming to either of you.

Whatever is going on now will pass, I would think - particularly as it doesn't seem to have got very far without you noticing it and dealing with it.

Once your feelings for each other have gone back normal (and once he's become accustomed to your newfound sexiness and the fact that it is off-limits for him and he must go back to treating you as his non-sexy deskmate) then there's no reason things can't go back to normal.

Because you spend so much time with people at work it's quite easy for feelings to run away from you a little but it's normally easy to catch them again and get them back under control.

What do you think of the previous suggestion by someone to introduce each other to your spouses? I thought it a good one, particularly as you seem to genuinely like this man a lot. Would your DH like him? Aren't you curious about his wife? I am so nosy, I love meeting colleagues' spouses.

Or is this just a work friendship situation and any attempt to take it out of that context would just seem weird?

I don't agree that there are two camps of women either - actually I don't mind accepting a compliment or someone using a term of endearment - I just can't get worked up about it.

Actually, I just accept that flirtation is part of life, part of human nature, makes a lot of people feel good and, yes, it is how you handle it that counts.

GDG- thank god for a common sense post!