How would you feel/react if a new man said the following about your body after sex?

[honkytonkwoman]

(1) "It's too bushy." Said about easy-to-guess bits, which I had (I thought) trimmed very neatly the evening before.

(2) "Your clitoris is not very easy to find."

(3) "Ooh, your legs are a bit stubbly - you need to Immac." Said, again, while cuddling in the early hours of the morning, and at the very early stages of grow-back - I'd shaved the morning before, less than 24 hours previously.

I want to know how others would respond or react to this, before I say anymore. Thanks.

DON'T READ THE LETTER.

He's trying to claw a bit of power back, after you've pulled his usual rug right from under him by not mindlessly apologising for your physicality and presentation, as I imagine every other woman he's sneered and sniped at has in the past.

I'd text and say something along the lines of, "Really, don't waste your energy writing to me, there's nothing here I'm interested in analysing or discussing further. You're just not the man for me. I hope you'll be able to move on and that we can remain friends."

If it's too late for that, send the letter back unopened with a note expressing the same sensibility. No doubt you're curious but whatever he's writing WILL on some level be misogynistic (generally) and hurtful (to you personally). He probably doesn't even realise that he's like this, he thinks it's the normal way of things for men to decide and dictate how women should look, and that it's the duty of a woman to always do her utmost to be aesthetically pleasing. I've met a couple of guy like this, the sort who think you're letting yourself go if you venture out without make-up; that you're a lesbian if you wear flat shoes (seriously, I've had these comments, these guys are everywhere).

PLEASE.LISTEN.TO.TAMZ.

and take her advice!

to the letter.

because it is spot on.

don't bother reading it, text as she stated if it's not too late and if it is, send it back unopened.

then heed the sage wisdom of madamez when she wrote 'If he contacts you again, send him a text saying 'There is nothing further to discuss. Leave me alone.' If there is more contact after this, then be aware that his behaviour is unnacceptable and inappropriate and may escalate without a stern warning. '

we have ALL been there.

this guy may not know it, but he is acting psycho.

OK and this is my estimation of what it's going to sound like:

"Dear HonkyTonk,

I'm writing this letter to explain my feelings, as I'm not sure whether I can comfortably speak to you, as in I'm not sure that when I try to explain you won't just take offence and run away, as you have already! I'm truly sorry if what I said to you in bed hurt or offended you in any way, if it did, I didn't mean it. Even though we hadn't been seeing each other very long I thought we both felt secure enough to be honest and open with each other. Again, I apologise if this is not the case, I must have misread the situation. I was only saying what I would expect you to say to me, if things were reversed, ie if there were any 'bedroom issues' that were bothering you, I would prefer to be told about them, straight up! Eg, if I was doing something you found a turn-off, I would rather know, and sooner better than later. Clearly I underestimated how sensitive you are, and while I don't want to overanalyse what happened, I do want to give you a second chance, as it would be a real shame if the potential in what we had all went to pot, for the sake of a kneejerk reaction to a couple of comments that were made with the best of intentions and only with my concern and care for you in mind. I do think you're funny, clever and beautiful, leg stubble or not! If nothing else is clear in your head, I hope that is.

Yours,
CrapFaceWankerGuyFromWomanHatingHell x x"

and since I can bet London to a brick that he will write exactly what Tamz has just written, don't give him the satisfaction of reading his 'thoughts'.

he's showing he can't let go of this because he's a controlling, nasty, manipulative twonk.

so send it back unopened so he gets the message that you're not interested in his bullshit.

Which roughly translated would mean:

You overreacted when I tried to express my dislike for body hair even though it's perfectly reasonable and I did my best to be tactful.

I'll still shag you though.

Whatever he writes will contain these basic sentiments! His type is so obvious: he thinks the best way to make a woman climax is pull apart the labia of her totally surgically-shaved vagina and go at the clitoris as hard as he can. He's had his whole sexual education from porn. Please don't waste your time on him (or more crucially leave yourself feeling vulnerable and shit) by reading his tosh.

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out!!
You rude small dicked twonk

A useful phrase in these situations is 'you are of no consequence to me'.

Blimey Tamz, you don't pull any punches do you ?

I think you are spot-on though.

Gosh he is rude... what did you say to him after sex?

Even if most people thought what he said they would never say it...

Well mamachat, I hope most people wouldn't think what he said. My ex-partner, with whom I'm still friends, has said minute leg stubble was never an issue. I know he loved my bits, and he knew his way around them exactly. So I'm optimistic that this bloke thinking/saying this stuff is his problem, not mine.

Tamz77, what a post! God, you can see I was with my ex from a fairly young age, can't you? I have much to learn - or rather, I am learning it. Fast. I know you're all saying that I shouldn't open the letter but you know, I'm reminded of my stamp-collecting dad, carefully steaming the stamps off envelopes. I want to steam open and read the letter to see how precisely it correlates with what you said Tamz77, and then to carefully seal it back up and return it to him with a copy of this thread. I think it would teach him sooo much more about why he's an outwardly good catch and yet still single at 48, than any other relationship lesson he's had previously. But I can't imagine him being too friendly after receiving that. Thank God he lives a fair distance away, but even then I don't fancy ruffling his feathers - and does he even deserve this insight? Hmm.

We do have mutual friends, so I'm playing this carefully. There is politeness there and still some contact every now and then (not instigated by me, mind) - but there is also a new boundary there too, which is not to be crossed.

don't waste your time steaming open his letter.

i've tried that myself and it never works with letters.

it really doesn't.

he's not worth it, either, because he sounds like a really nasty piece of work and manipulative and possibly psycho.

he's a loser. seriously.

tamz has been around this board and like most of us, she's had her share of losers like this.

send back his letter unopened and say nothing.

saying something is exactly what he wants. he wants to continue the dialogue to get to you otherwise he'd have never contacted you after your last text.

don't give him what he wants because that's giving him all the power and control.

and he's not even worth the energy at all because it's all negative energy. who needs that?

This thread is great. Tamz's posts are fantastic.

FWIW, I wouldn't send the letter back because that also sends him a message that you are bothered in some way - after all, you don't bother returning letters that have no effect on you at all, do you? You just bin them.

I'd throw it in the bin unopened. If he contacts you to ask what you think about his letter, tell him that you didn't receive it, but that on balance he shouldn't worry about writing another one - no hard feelings, everything chalked up to experience, blah blah nicey nicey.

Ah, expat. I hear what you're saying. The thing is, he's going to follow it up - ask if I got it, etc. We will likely meet again, jusy occasionally, through mutual friends. To send it back unopened, or tell him I haven't opened it, seems incendiary; asking for trouble - the perfect opportunity to pile more "you're so sensitive you couldn't even face it" crap on to me. Would it not be a good idea to open it - with force field in place - and feel (hopefully) vindicated and then, when it's brought up, just say something along the lines of a calm "we can agree to disagree"? I think I would feel more empowered to be able to say that I had read it and it didn't resonate.

But curiosity killed the cat, didn't it?

Night.

No, HTW, it isn't a good idea at all.

Because this isn't about your mutual friends.

This is about you and your confidence and your feelings and someone who wants to fuck those and already has.

Why draw this out? It's melodramatic bullshit and a complete and total waste of energy.

It's also very adolescent, and you're an adult, so even if he behaves like a 13-year-old, why respond in kind.

So what if he sends you texts and stuff like, 'did you get it?' Well, he wants you to react.

So don't! Tamz gave you the perfect response to when he next gets in touch: 'there's nothing here I'm interested in analysing or discussing further. You're just not the man for me. I hope you'll be able to move on and that we can remain friends."'

End of.

"jusy"?! "just". I agree policywonk that Tamz's posts are superb. How can she be that intuitive? Understood, as regards not returning the letter; there'd be an incendiary dimension to sending it back. Good to keep it civilised if poss.

I've found this thread brilliant too. Never expected it to take off as it has, but it's been an education; has obviously struck a nerve. At the very least, it's taught me that I have a sound inuition that I've let get swamped by others' and my own reasoning, and that life would be simpler and healthier if I trusted it more and questioned it less.

Thanks, all.

I wouldn't bother reading it.

It's not worth the negative reaction it's going to get in you.

YOU are worth more than that and losers like him, anyhow.

He's a fuckwit. If he has figured that out by his age, he never will.

Understood, expat.

Seriously, he's baiting you, HTW.

Otherwise, after your initial text he'd have let it go.

He wouldn't have come back days later, 'I'm writing you a letter'.

Fuckwittage.

and the only reason people here have all been in agreement about that is because they've all been a victim of fuckwittage like this, too.

I really wouldn't read it. Even forewarned and forearmed, you're going to struggle not to internalise some of the insulting crap that it will contain. Why give him the headspace?

You could always tell him that you've read it, even if you haven't. You're only going to discuss it in the vaguest terms (thanks for your letter, I think it's best if we both move on, no hard feelings, nice to see you in future). Apart from anything else, it'll drive him nuts that your reaction is so understated.

Exactly, PW!

He's 48 & permanently single & he thinks he can tell a woman what he thinks is wrong with her?

here's another vote for the understated approach. sending it back unopened is too reactionary. it'll drive him mad if you are so unconcerned that you have practically no reaction at all.

chuck it in the bin. if he contacts you again, if by text, perhaps don't reply. when you see him in person at friends, be reservedly charming. that's all that's necessary imo.