Husband doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong, has he or should I move on?

[Anon1234567891]

I should say there is a long backstory to this that I have posted about before but I will try to summarise.
Last year I became unhappy about my DH closeness to a female colleague (going out just the 2 of them, the cinema story if anyone remembers) and doing things for her, like helping her move when she split with her husband. I asked if I could see their messages but he wouldn’t show me which made me more suspicious. I later looked at his work phone, which I know was probably wrong but found some flirty messages, I then told him I wanted to see his personal phone messages which he got angry about but showed. There wasn’t anything directly bad but a lot more than I realised and I didn’t like the timing of them.
We eventually sort of moved on as he said he would take a step back and not go out with her any more but wouldn’t ignore her and say he was busy so couldn’t go out.

I know it was probably wrong of me but I checked his phone again a few months later as I wanted to see if he was telling the truth. I found he had bought her a birthday present and not told me as well as some other things he’d done for her.

I was angry but didn’t confront him as I was worried about his reaction. I made enquiries about divorce and universal credit.
He has now found that email and was upset about it. We had a calm conversation about it, I tried to explain to him that by buying her a birthday present after telling me he had taken a step back and hiding it from me felt like he was prioritising her feelings over mine. He must have known I wouldn’t be happy but chose to do something to make her happy instead. Also if he hid this what else might he hid. There are other things he’s done for her as well, some of which he deleted the messages. He didn’t really have an explanation for buying it, and didn’t seem to think he had done anything wrong. He thinks I’m muzzling him from doing what he wants. Which I suppose I am but he told me he’d taken a step back then does this. How am I supposed to trust him without any accountability? I know there are faults on both sides.

sorry it’s long. I don’t know if couples counselling would help.

@Anon1234567891
You're flogging the carcass of a horse that doesn't want/respect/love you
I honestly think that if you tolerate and try to keep things together
You'll split anyways or it'll be the three of you in that marriage
Just saying

He won’t beg you to stay? Of course not! He wants you to be the one to pull the pin on the marriage because he’s chicken shit and wants you to be the bad guy. Poor, misunderstood little man, just being friendly to a coworker and his irrational wife left him.

OP, he’s basically having an affair, all trust is gone, but he’s not man enough to end the marriage. What a dick! LTB! Find a shit hot lawyer.

That is the usual story behind an affair OP they always deny the physical stuff

It’s because they’re dating—that’s what you do when you’re dating someone. You immediately think to tell them about something that just happened. You check in with them and let them know what you’re doing that day, eg baking. You reach out when you’re feeling sad. All normal dating behaviours. They’re dating.

@TheThingOnTheIce that was the thing with the messages he showed me before, there wasn’t anything technically inappropriate, although he would have had chance to delete if there was, but there were a lot of messages when we were on holiday and family days out, even when we were on a date, mostly instigated by him. It just felt like he still needed contact while he wasn’t seeing her at work. And even after he had seen how much that upset me, he sent her a message when we were on our last holiday in July.

I have to say seeing it written down again brings back how many things there have been as well as some stuff I haven’t mentioned. Sometimes I think that individually they aren’t big things but it’s when you put it all together,especially when he’s supposed to have taken a step back. But he did say he wouldn’t ignore her, so technically I suppose in his eyes he hasn’t done anything wrong as he did tell me he wouldn’t stop contact all together.

Would you please stop trying to excuse him?

he has hurt you

deliberately

carelessly

and I don’t like that and you don’t like that

it takes time I know to get to the stage when you are prepared to leave , when it becomes too much for your head to excuse and cover up. But you would be better focussing on what comes next because the sooner you move in the sooner the rest of your life begins.

my only regret is how long it took me to move

Sorry to be harsh but WAKE UP his disrespectful behaviour towards you is so bad. I think you should go to relationship counselling together because he won't be able to talk his way out of everything in front of a third part qualified in dealing with all this. Make a list of everything he has done wlth OW especially the no knickers and constantly messaging her even when you are on a date night and take it with you to the session. Wish you well

I read your previous thread and this one, too. I have so much empathy for you.

He does believe he hasn't done anything wrong especially as he told you he wouldn't stop contact. He has hidden messages and actions such as buying gifts. He seems besotted with her and doesn't care if it is hurting you. You can't control how he acts, but you can control how you act. You haven't drawn clear boundaries about what you will accept/not accept, and laid out the consequences of what would happen if he crossed them. You can tell him to stop, that you don't like it, but he doesn't seem to give any importance to your relationship or how his actions are effecting it. To him he is innocent, you are spoiling his friendship, you are unreasonable when this is clearly not the case.

But he doesn't have all the power here. You can decide what you will and won't put up with. As long as you don't spell these things out and then follow through, he doesn't really have any incentive to change. Perhaps he won't anyway, which will give you a much better idea of what he actually thinks of you and your marriage. But surely it would be better to end things in this case than limp along for another few years knowing he is hurting you and refuses to do anything about it.

you don't need to decide anything today, right now. But you do need to think carefully about how you are allowing yourself to be treated. You have been low on his priority list for a long time, he almost certainly takes you for granted and assumes you will always be there.

It took me years to get to the point where I no longer cared what my H thought and it was clear I was just background noise in his life. I started getting my ducks in a row, stopped pandering to him and his feelings because he was not giving any thought to mine. I decided I had nothing left to lose and told him what I expected and if he didn't change his attitude, we were over. He finally saw I was serious and it was a huge jolt to his system. We are still together and I am now his first priority in everything. I am still getting my ducks in a row though because he cannot erase all the decades of poor treatment, being selfish, entitled, just basically not giving a crap about my feelings or how his actions would effect me. I still don't know if I will leave, I think probably, but I need to be in a place where I know I will be fine financially and am able to actually choose what I want.

What I don’t get is why this man and woman involved in this affair haven’t left their spouses to be together? They are clearly besotted with each other.
And while this man here is an arsehole, the woman he is involved with is a disgrace.

It feels calculated because it is calculated.

It really is as simple as that.

He sneaks around to avoid upsetting you because he knows that if you knew what he was doing you would be upset.

He will never admit it so you have to rely on your own judgement. If you don't feel like you're his number one then do you really want to be in a relationship with him?

Take what he says out of it and just focus on what you expect in a committed and loving partnership.

You don't need his permission to end it. You can just say 'This isn't good enough for me, I require better.'

Why would he leave? He's got a wife at home who lives with his dating and having a long term relationship with another woman. OP keeps up the home and lives the lie and the facade that he's a good guy husband and they have a decent marriage. He avoids divorce costs and possibly splitting assets.

She split from hers in 2024 and got back together a year later, they then split again early this year and are in the process of her moving out. So what’s going to happen when she has her own place and needs something?

Oh, I remember that dickhead.

What would make it easier for you to leave him?

OP, I think you need to decide if this is okay for you. You don't sound happy. My DH has female friends but they have also become friends of mine over time and any present they received would be discussed or probably actually actioned by me. He has this secretive relationship, which has had sexually charged messages in the past. He sounds like he is keen on her but she just wants him as a friend/useful person to know while she is between partners. Am I right that she's single?

DH and I both have friends of the opposite sex and I would never tell him who he should spend time with but I don't need to. He might be closer to a female friend but I'll know her too and if she needed help, she'd get help from both of us.

If he ever sent a message to anyone like the one your DH sent, I think we'd be in a world of trouble. I don't think that is what marriage is.

My take on this is that she isn't interested but he would like the relationship to be more and is hanging around doing her favours in the hope she changes her mind. This wouldn't work for me. Having friends outside a marriage is very healthy. Sending messages about their underwear and sending secret presents is not. Sorry, OP.

Read the book ‘not just friends’ by Glass.

Then read ‘cheating in a nutshell’.

Your spouse is a boring cheating liar. He’s about as sexy as a festival loo. He’s simpering after a woman, boosting her ego, addicted to the dopamine thrill. She may be interested, he may be the reason her husband has dumped her, she may just be using him as a distraction.

He moans about you controlling (muzzling him) so set him free. If you don’t risk losing him you’ll never have him anyway. The real question is do you want a pathetic man who seeks dopamine hits and ego boosts? It’s not hard to cheat and get ego kibbles, it’s hard to say you will be faithful AND commit to it day after day.

He’s a loser. As sexy as the loos at Glastonbury on a Sunday (and just as full of shit).

"Husband doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong, has he or should I move on?"

Yes, he absolutely has. He's gaslighting you, and deceiving you, there are so many things wrong with his behaviour.

The only action to take in this scenario is to divorce his cheating ass.

Of course he’s doing wrong and he knows he is. He’s only doubling down to gaslight you and keep you in place.

I’m not against people having friends of the opposite sex (my best friend is a man, after all) but it’s very easy to spot when it’s appropriate or not. The cinema message would have been more than enough. They’re both absolutely disgusting.

I’m sorry he’s still messing with your head and for your own sake, I hope you find it in yourself to leave him. It’s easier said than done of course, but he’s a coward who’ll never leave and will keep doing this forever.

I remember your earlier posts and can’t believe you are still putting up with his behaviour which is making you really miserable.
He has undermined and gaslit you so much you’re doubting your own worth and judgment.
At the end of the day you’ve got to decide if you’re going to waste any more of your life on this poor apology of a man.
Get angry, stop putting up with this and begin a life that makes you happy.

Your husband will continue as he is, or sleepover at hers.
You get to choose the life you want. Focus on yourself, not Mr Knickerless Cinema.

Believe him, he's trash.

so she is splitting from her husband and moving out. What's probably going to happen is your hubby will split with you... get your ducks in a row now before that happens.

I don’t know if it’s because I didn’t say straight away that I want to split up but he’s being all nice saying how we can move on. He thinks we can have different views on what is right and wrong and that to move forward we shouldn’t put blame on who was right or wrong. Which I suppose in some ways he’s right if we do want to move on but if he doesn’t think he did anything wrong what’s stopping him doing it again. Although it’s quite clear now what I think is right and wrong but I thought he would have known that before but did it anyway as he probably didn’t think I would find out. Now I can’t check his phone I won’t know, that was in some ways the only thing that made me feel better that at least I knew some of what was going on even if some stuff upset me.
Although I’m sure people will say if I have to check his phone to feel ok then there is no trust anyway so really it’s over.

And also if he did these things for her knowing how I felt then he must have feelings for her that are more than friends

You sound utterly confused OP. Your brain has been scrambled by this man, who is minimising the fact that he is having an affair in plain sight.

Rule 1 of a couple working through infidelity, whether physical or emotional, is the offending party taking full responsibility for their actions. He is doing no such thing—just telling OP to get over it.

Indeed you do sound completely confused. You need to focus on simple facts. Not some word salad he is feeding to you.
The main fact here is that he is being unfaithful to you, in plain sight and passing it off as a friendship.
I don’t know why you want this man so bad, Im completely sure you are better off without him. But basically what he is saying is that if you want to keep him you will just have to keep allowing him to be inappropriate with other woman and keep pretending that you believe it’s all ok.
The last fact here is.. he is not a suitable husband for you and he is damaging your mental health. You do not need him and I hope you leave him and have a lovely life.