Husband doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong, has he or should I move on?

[Anon1234567891]

I should say there is a long backstory to this that I have posted about before but I will try to summarise.
Last year I became unhappy about my DH closeness to a female colleague (going out just the 2 of them, the cinema story if anyone remembers) and doing things for her, like helping her move when she split with her husband. I asked if I could see their messages but he wouldn’t show me which made me more suspicious. I later looked at his work phone, which I know was probably wrong but found some flirty messages, I then told him I wanted to see his personal phone messages which he got angry about but showed. There wasn’t anything directly bad but a lot more than I realised and I didn’t like the timing of them.
We eventually sort of moved on as he said he would take a step back and not go out with her any more but wouldn’t ignore her and say he was busy so couldn’t go out.

I know it was probably wrong of me but I checked his phone again a few months later as I wanted to see if he was telling the truth. I found he had bought her a birthday present and not told me as well as some other things he’d done for her.

I was angry but didn’t confront him as I was worried about his reaction. I made enquiries about divorce and universal credit.
He has now found that email and was upset about it. We had a calm conversation about it, I tried to explain to him that by buying her a birthday present after telling me he had taken a step back and hiding it from me felt like he was prioritising her feelings over mine. He must have known I wouldn’t be happy but chose to do something to make her happy instead. Also if he hid this what else might he hid. There are other things he’s done for her as well, some of which he deleted the messages. He didn’t really have an explanation for buying it, and didn’t seem to think he had done anything wrong. He thinks I’m muzzling him from doing what he wants. Which I suppose I am but he told me he’d taken a step back then does this. How am I supposed to trust him without any accountability? I know there are faults on both sides.

sorry it’s long. I don’t know if couples counselling would help.

Absolutely but it needs to be in context( no flirty messages etc, no asking them not to wear knickers etc) , and as you say not hidden or secretive -

Yeah he said he chose me by not going to the cinema any more

It shouldn't feel like a sacrifice to him. He's supposed to be the person who loves and cherishes you, who you know has got your back, who would never hurt you.

Not the person who lies to your face and tries to justify it.

Press ahead with the separation.

I feel so sorry for you, the pain is like nothing else and then the lies he’s still heaping on you, it’s no surprise you are at rock bottom.
I remember very well your previous posts about OW not wearing knickers in the cinema and then after promising to stop contact, you then found he’d been tracking her on a long journey because she felt nervous about the drive.
Was it also your husband who buried a parent and the 1st person he contacted after returning from the funeral was her, again after he’d “stopped contact”. ?
I very much suspect they were / are having a full blown affair.
My husband had a very active 4+ yrs affair with a colleague.
After I found out, he managed for 3 months to convince me it was “only” an EA.
However I turned detective and found so much undeniable evidence on his phone and discovered it was a very active physical affair too.
Please don’t let him fool you and continue to disrespect you in this way.
You’ve been fed so many lies, you no longer trust yourself to see what’s in front of you. He is still deleting for a reason and I guarantee it’s not to free up his phone storage.
It can work for some couples, but only if he cuts all contact with OW, fully acknowledges what he’s done, shows genuine remorse and shows complete transparency.
We are still attending couples therapy, my husband is showing me complete transparency, I have access to all his phone and accounts.(I don’t feel the need to look very often now). We also still have location trackers on (had these on during those 4+ yrs as it worked well for the kids, but I never checked his location during those years, as I KNEW my husband would never cheat, HE WASNT THE TYPE!!! Basically he’s trying his very best to reassure me.

I suspect that your husband doesn’t think you will actually leave him.
Its crunch time, if he cannot cut off all contact with OW and give you full transparency and all you need to move forward and try to repair the marriage (if that’s what you still want), then you need to prepare yourself to leave him.
I wish you all the very best 🌺

You aren’t stopping him from doing anything. You tried to stop him from ruining your marriage and he still went right ahead and did it. What has he been stopped from doing, exactly? He’s annoyed because you’ve correctly identified this relationship as one that is inappropriate and you’re asking him to stay faithful to you. He’s annoyed because he doesn’t want to.

He’s having an affair. The cinema thing showed you that it has already gone beyond the bounds of an emotional affair and I’d be stunned if they weren’t either sleeping together or working towards that. But even if he was telling the truth, it’s all perfectly innocent and they’re just innocent mates, he is your husband. He is supposed to put you before anyone else. Instead, he’s putting some random woman in the office before you and your concerns about your marriage. That’s unacceptable.

I think this is either going to go one of two ways. Things will get deeper with them, they’ll convince themselves that they are star crossed lovers and that fate has brought them together and they have to be together. He’ll leave to stay on a mate’s sofa and within a month, she’ll have been introduced to his family under the pretence that nothing happened until after he left. Or he’ll keep denying it, they’ll have their sordid little affair, things will fizzle out and he’ll carry on with you, still insisting that nothing ever happened and you were just being paranoid. Until the next one comes along.

You do not have to accept this. You don’t need proof that they’ve had sex. You can end this for any reason you like, including that he’s shown you that he doesn’t respect you, he doesn’t love you, he certainly doesn’t cherish or honour you and you are not willing to sit at home while your life partner tells other women not to wear underwear on their trip to the cinema.

He’s dating her, though. So what if they aren’t having sex? My DH and I dated for 4 months before having sex. We were still dating. Sex isn’t the only qualifier for a relationship.

Well he’s told OP more or less he’s not fighting to fix this.
So she can either accept his lies watered down explications or know she comes second, & will live the rest of her life in fear of him jumping ship one day.
Op it will Eat You Up.

BTW Does he buy presents for his own children & family?

I’m so sorry. I remember your cinema story. That was awful.

Well OP, he says you are muzzling him from doing what he wants. No, he is free to do whatever he wants, including having an emotional (at least) affair. You get equal free choice - in this case, the choice to refuse to stay in the marriage in these circumstances. He is willing to let the relationship go as far as divorce rather than stop seeing her. That says it all really. He has made his choice. Now you get to make yours. Put up with it or leave him. That is the choice you have.

OP, I remember your other threads.

Couples counselling isn't going to help. Your husband is either having an affair, or is hoping to. That's been the case all along. It's not going to change. Every time you've tried to set a boundary, he's ignored it and the consequences for him have been zero because you just keep accepting what he's done instead of leaving him.

My sensible head says get rid. He’s having an affair, you’re better off without him.

My malicious head says invite her to dinner, a curry, chilli, some sort of pot meal. You’ve taken your portion already and the rest contains a lot of Senokot……. I have never, ever done this, of course.

Seriously, he’ll go on disrespecting you.

Do you have kids? Parents of young children having affair and cheating is the most baffling thing to me like how do they live with guilt where you are battling these little terrorist alone while they betray you?????? WTF I do not consider myself to have high moral standard but the guilt alone would have killed me.

I'm sorry you are still going through this @Anon1234567891 . He is bamboozling you.. having his cake and eating it as pps said.

1. Change your email password and all other personal passwords for banking etc. He's going through your stuff and checking up on you.
2. Keep your plans close to your chest.
3. Get your Ducks in a Row as they like to say... and
4. apply the boot
5. I don't think couples counselling would make much difference at this stage. He's not going to change his position, he promised to before and he hasn't. But you could see someone on your own to help and support you. You haven't had much of that from him at any rate.

Absolutely ... guilt flowers because he knew he was doing exactly what he shouldn't be doing, focusing his time, attention and money on another woman and actively hiding his actions from you.

This is awful.

You’re not stopping him from doing anything / because he’s doing it anyway.

He’s tying you up in knots where you end up saying ‘fair enough, I suppose’ because he’s trying to make you seem irrational.

He’s doing exactly what he wants already, and nothing you say or find changes that.

He won’t stop and suddenly see the light if you go to a counsellor. He’ll resent the embarrassment and become sullen or defiant.

At least you know what you’re dealing with but it’s so corrosive.

Yes to all that. The exact words were along with some other banter “because the seats recline, meaning legs go higher than normal seating position, please make sure you are wearing underwear - this time!” To which she replied “spoil sport”. Then sent a picture of a double sofa bed and said it was OTT for the first date. Which even as a joke was inappropriate.
And yes he tracked her then deleted the messages and she was the first person he texted after the funeral to say it was harder than he thought. This was the other stuff I was referring to.
The other day, while we were out for our DC birthday, she sent a picture of her DD baking. I know that’s innocent but what’s the need.

He even checked with someone else what day her birthday was as he’s not very good with dates, paid for it on an account I don’t have access to, didn’t leave the receipt around even though he bought some other stuff separately and left the receipt for that. So feels calculated not just a spare of the moment thing.

I think he's probably more upset that you've investigated leaving him before he's completely ready to jump himself.
He sounds total selfish fool. He is putting himself and her before you and that's shit.
I do understand how hard it is to actually leave a long marriage. No certainty stayed way too long and now regret it.

I think your original thread was Jan time? That is a v long time for this to still be going on. I think i would asking for a trial seperation and counselling. This back and forth of him trying to justify his behaviour and ignoring how you feel has gone on for a long time x

If he can’t see that he’s done wrong (or doesn’t care) then as much as you are willing to try and make the marriage work he isn’t. Would he even go to couples counselling?

I just couldn’t be around someone who has done this. Your life with him will be constant anxiety and I’m sure this work woman won’t be the last he does this with.
I’d leave him and start over. I’d choose peace for myself and children any day over staying with a lying, feckless idiot of a ‘man’ and ‘father’.

He can see - you have pointed it out repeatedly and with evidence. You have yo accept he doesn't care about your feelings; only how the relationship with her makes him feel.

Now you have to choose for yourself- do you want to continue living a life of misery, overthinking, searching and explaining?
If not, you must take steps to leave this man.

The choice is now yours to make. Your husband is content with hurting and dismissing you, for as long as you'll tolerate it.

You cannot carry on like this.

Anon1234567891 posted

"The other day, while we were out for our DC birthday, she sent a picture of her DD baking. I know that’s innocent but what’s the need."

That's not innocent; it's heartbreaking.
She is even encroaching in your family life whilst you are out celebrating your childs birthday.

Exactly
this isn’t a friendship
if he cared about his marriage she’d be blocked

can’t remember but maybe from another thread did you speak to her at some point too ?

Youre completely preoccupied with this, understandably.

He doesnt care that instead of feeling safe and loved and secure, you feel the opposite.

At best there's half truths.

Just wanted to express support because lots of us ha e been thete and its horrible.