Husband doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong, has he or should I move on?

[Anon1234567891]

I should say there is a long backstory to this that I have posted about before but I will try to summarise.
Last year I became unhappy about my DH closeness to a female colleague (going out just the 2 of them, the cinema story if anyone remembers) and doing things for her, like helping her move when she split with her husband. I asked if I could see their messages but he wouldn’t show me which made me more suspicious. I later looked at his work phone, which I know was probably wrong but found some flirty messages, I then told him I wanted to see his personal phone messages which he got angry about but showed. There wasn’t anything directly bad but a lot more than I realised and I didn’t like the timing of them.
We eventually sort of moved on as he said he would take a step back and not go out with her any more but wouldn’t ignore her and say he was busy so couldn’t go out.

I know it was probably wrong of me but I checked his phone again a few months later as I wanted to see if he was telling the truth. I found he had bought her a birthday present and not told me as well as some other things he’d done for her.

I was angry but didn’t confront him as I was worried about his reaction. I made enquiries about divorce and universal credit.
He has now found that email and was upset about it. We had a calm conversation about it, I tried to explain to him that by buying her a birthday present after telling me he had taken a step back and hiding it from me felt like he was prioritising her feelings over mine. He must have known I wouldn’t be happy but chose to do something to make her happy instead. Also if he hid this what else might he hid. There are other things he’s done for her as well, some of which he deleted the messages. He didn’t really have an explanation for buying it, and didn’t seem to think he had done anything wrong. He thinks I’m muzzling him from doing what he wants. Which I suppose I am but he told me he’d taken a step back then does this. How am I supposed to trust him without any accountability? I know there are faults on both sides.

sorry it’s long. I don’t know if couples counselling would help.

Gently I think you're flogging a dead horse. He IS prioritising her feelings over yours and you - understandably- don't trust him.

In short

He’s having an affair. And he feels muzzled because you would rather he didn’t ?

i have male friends. I would never hide anything I did for them from DH. I would invite DH to things with my male friends. They become family friends.

ditto DH and female friends.

the hiding of comms and gifts tells you this isn’t innocent.

don’t talk to him about it, ducks in a row quietly

councellung won’t help as he doesn’t want to change

hugs

There’s nothing to be done. He is having an affair and hasn’t stopped when he’s been found out. You deserve better.

Do you want to counselling or has the trust gone. Being in a relationship with someone you don’t trust is draining. The constant suspicion of what they are doing is draining. The impact on your confidence and self esteem is huge. It is ok to think about yourself separately to the couple and think about what is best for you. Your husband is already doing this. Ending a relationship can be scary, but it isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

He swears he hasn’t done anything physically but he can’t see that even if he hasn’t he is still crossing a line with his contact with her, he has other friends but I don’t think he goes to this level with them.

I don’t care what he swears he has or hasn’t done
he’s a proven liar anyway

it can still be an affair without shagging

he’s being deceitful over it

I am an overthinker and find it hard to let things go, so it will always be there.

I think if she gave him the come-on he’d be having a full on affair.

Er yes of course you're trying to stop him, because he is wrecking your marriage. He'll only stop if there are consequences and maybe not then either.
If you carry on with "put up and shut up", he'll carry on as he is with her. If you don't want that, you need to split up. He's made it clear that he doesn't see a problem. So you have a decision to make. He can't disrespect you like this and then complain that you're considering your options. Why is he the only one who gets to do what he wants?

That was exactly the point I was trying to make to him. But to him he hasn’t done anything wrong and it’s for me to get over.
He also said he wouldn’t beg me to stay which I suppose is fair enough.

Although he may not have done anything physical with her it doesn't make it right. You've told him how you feel and hes not respecting you. What does he need to do for it to classed as a affair? Has he not done anything because he doesn't fancy/want her or is it shes not been the one to make the move? If she makes the move he can then say it was all her and she done the chasing. Im so sorry, but wake up you know its wrong and you don't need to justify it.

This has been going on for years now hasn’t it?
Honestly he needs to cut her off completely. This woman doesn’t need to be in his life when it’s causing issues in his marriage. He is not innocent. The comments he made to her about her not wearing knickers to the cinema is enough to cross a massive line and to choose you and his marriage over this ‘friend’

If it hasn’t become physical it’s certainly an emotional affair which is equally as devastating. You are not muzzling him, you are asking him to respect you and your feelings over hers. Ask how he would feel if you suddenly bought thoughtful gifts for a male coworker, if you went to the cinema, had drinks and flirty texted him- would your DH think it appropriate? If he says yes, then he’s lying, and he knows he is. If he says no but carries on regardless - it’s time to put a divorce into position.
Go with your gut feeling, don’t be gaslit into thinking you are the problem - you aren’t.

Even if he hasn't done anything physical with her, it does sound like an emotional affair. He knows it's wrong as he is lying about things.

It doesn't matter whether he did something wrong or not.
What matters is how it works for YOU. What YOU want from yourself, from your partner, from people around you.
-There are swingers clubs. Works for someone. Not me.
-Partner occasionally cheats. Works for someone. Not me.
-Partner has 1 child from previous relationship. Well behaved. Lovely child. Works for someone. Not me.
It doesn't even have to be wrong. It can even be seen as a good thing. If it what YOU don't want in YOUR LIFE. That's enough of a reason not have it in your life.

I remember the cinema story. I actually can't believe you're still with him. He was/is having an affair (almost certainly physical although it doesn't matter if it's not) and he got caught. He then got off Scott free, so why would he change his ways? He won't stop OP. Your only decision is whether you can tolerate this behaviour for the rest of your life or not. Personally, I couldn't do it, but you do you.

He makes his affair your problem

he expects you to get over it

He is shocking

it’s really hard when someone acts like this - acts the innocent , it’s all in your head , makes you doubt if you are reasonable , makes it your fault when you split.

it is easier once you have split. You gain your self respect and self confidence. Over time people realise it was him not you.

I do remember the cinema thread. Would he consider marriage counselling? Maybe another person telling him he is playing with fire might make him realise all he has to lose in this. Or what about him talking to a close friend and they could make him see he is risking his marriage and for what?

He is still hiding stuff from you so he knows he is in the wrong. He is doing stuff he knows upsets you. Why does he think that is okay?

How would he feel if you were secretly messaging another man? Bought him presents? Deleted messages from him? This is the sort of man who would say the divorce came out of nowhere.

It sounds like he doesn't care if you stay or go which should be your answer

@Anon1234567891 I do remember the cinema story. Wasn’t it something along the lines of him saying “wear no underwear” or something equally crude? If so, no, I don’t think you’re overreacting at all.
What concerns me more is that he seems to be minimising your feelings rather than trying to understand why you’re upset. There may also be more to the situation than he’s admitted, although of course we can’t know that for certain.
I’m a relationship therapist, and in my professional experience, people often initially admit to less than the full story. That’s not to say that’s definitely what’s happening here, but it’s something to be mindful of.
Hopefully, you can talk it through together, but he needs to be willing to acknowledge your feelings and understand why his behaviour has hurt you. If he can’t or won’t do that, I’d consider it a bigger red flag than the gift or the fact that you looked through his phone.
Ultimately, honesty, accountability and a willingness to understand each other’s perspectives are the only ways to rebuild trust and move forward.

Leave him, that will be a wake up call and he will either realise what he is about to lose and reduce the contact to an appropriate level, or he won’t and you know then that the relationship wasn’t right.

He's massively disrespecting you and your marriage. Sounds like he doesn't care anymore.

Personally I'd proceed with separation. Let her have him.

Get your finances sorted OP.

I remember your first thread.
I seem to recall that the advice then was to start figuring out how to split up from your husband.
From what you say now, I advise you to do so. You'll never trust him (with very good reason) and he'll never prioritise you (despite saying he will) and I'd honestly just cut my losses and get the divorce underway.

I'm sorry it's come to this but I think you'll be happier apart.

I remember the thread about the cinema too. Sorry he's having an affair, emotional definitely, potentially physical too. I'm sure he would make it physical given the chance.
He has prioritised this woman, refused to end contact, nothing has changed. Of course he thinks you are muzzling him, is he telling you that you are "controlling" too? You would be surprised how many men seem to expect you to go along with this as long as they haven't had sex and even then.. They expect you to support them so much that they can have a damaging inappropriate relationship with another woman and you will go along with it out of love. It's crazy.
You can either put up with him having this affair or you can choose to leave him. He won't end it with her though, he's effectively chosen her already and it sounds like what you know is only a small piece of it.

He did seem sad about it but whether that’s actually about me personally or more about the family in general and the settled family life he’s got or money I don’t know