The Dating Thread 64 - the leaves are falling, and so are the irons (at our feet, hopefully, and not gently binwards....)

[Ilovelurchers]

The Rules:
-The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating
-Develop a thick skin
-Do not invest emotionally too soon
-It’s all BS until it actually happens
-Trust your gut instinct
-People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault
-Know your worth
-If it's not fun, stop
-Loo update is mandatory
-No dating the thread
-Treat others as you'd like to be treated
-Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with
-The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future
If you're wondering if you're being too picky/should give another chance after the second chance/should try harder - the answer is invariably NO! You're not and you shouldn't. If this, now, is as good as it's going to get, the A game, then do you want what comes next?!
-OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy!

• Be massively proud of yourself! Every boundary you put in place, big or small; every single iron you swipe left on, whatever your reasoning; every first date or fifteenth date you decide against pursuing..... These are all signs of how much you have learned to respect yourself, how far you have come, how you have finally realised that actually, remaining single a bit longer is hugely preferable to being with a partner who does not make you feel good about yourself. We all still make mistakes or errors of judgement occasionally - we are all still growing and learning - but every time you feel frustrated, just look at how far you have come, and how amazing you really are!

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item*

@Lilaclane my cricketer became Mr Elusive, I liked him but we never got into a relationship, he was too busy playing cricket! He reduced me to a booty call when he could be bothered and it just wasn’t enough, we parted on good terms.

Mr Lax just sounds fairly typical to me, there’s a lot there that sounds good about him and at least you’ve told him where he’s going wrong, maybe wait and see how he reacts?

@Summertime2012
I actually do think you should text him, despite the fact I'm afraid I agree with the others that he has ghosted you.

I would not however, send that massive long text you pasted in here. Because what you want to know is - is this over? So keep your dignity, send a short message along the lines of
"I am assuming from your prolonged silence that you are not interested in pursuing this any further, in which case I will remove you from my contacts and not get in touch again. Take care"

I mean, run something through AI if you want, but i think this will give you a line under the whole thing, without a massive long message that will leave you feeling vulnerable and like you're waiting for a response.

I am still talking to Mr Steampunk, who is great to chat to and has potential. I only have one amber flag and wanted to run it up the flag pole with you all.

He told me he married an older woman when he was 20. She was abusive and they got divorced. He had children with her who are now adults themselves and whom he has (according to him, because obviously I'm only getting his side) been prevented from seeing.

I am deeply uncomfortable with the situation if he has not made any efforts and is not in contact, however i am open to the possibility that there are people - including women - who prevent access to shared children and he may be in this situation. He told me about it via voice note, so I could hear his tone and he did sound upset and stated that he has made it known that the door is always open.

What do you all think? My cynical and my softer empathetic side are battling a bit here....
Green flags are the fact he takes accountability for things without being self flagellating about them. He talks openly about difficult subjects. He is respectful and interested. Sex has been lightly touched upon, but not dwelt upon and I didnt feel at all uncomfortable with the way it came up. Hes funny and intelligent. He likes animals. He has had therapy and is about to return because he wants to stay on top of things. He has his own interests and hobbies he pursues and doesn't want a melted life with a new partner.

There are no other red or amber flags.

ChatGPT advises to just keep talking and watch his reactions and responses and how he talks about the topic in the future, bit not enough evidence to bin him, esp in light of the plethora of green flags.
But i want real people to advise...

@Summertime2012 please dont send that message. If you haven't heard from a prospective date in 2 weeks, its done. Its shite, but its done.

I guarantee you he will pop up again at some point after hes done looking elsewhere. Dont respond. You deserve better. Its ok to decide when dating that someone isnt for you....but have the decency to tell them politely. He didnt have the balls

@PinkNeonSign im so sorry to read that the meet up didnt go well. That must have really stung, especially when you wernt keen on it anyway. What was his persistence or rush with wanting to do it when you didnt?

Sorry to say but him leaving without telling you....id be done. That is so so disrespectful

Thanks @OneShyQuail it did sting and I wondered what my life had come to at the age of 41 sitting in the park crying over a man.

I just think he’s got this idea of a family life he wants, to be fair it’s all he knows . He’s sweet and obviously it’s nice to hear your partner wants those things with you but I know from experience the reality of it is different.

Oh 😢 so sorry you were crying in a car park mate x

The thing is, even if blending families goes well, there will always be problems along the way. How he responded to it not going well is the concerning thing here. Doesnt bode well for future hiccups

Interesting - though I am very early days with my own Mr Cricket, I can definitely see similarities, lack of romance being a strong one! (But also some of the positives too, from what I can discern so far).

I guess that ultimately, you have to decide;
A) would your life be better if you were single? And even if it wouldn't ....
B) is your relationship with him going to prevent you from possibly meeting someone who brings you greater happiness than he does.

It's perfectly valid to feel that romance is an essential requirement for you to be happy in a relationship. I suspect this might be true for me too.....

Would a pros and cons list help you? This is something I find very useful on clarifying my feelings, tho I know it's not for everyone.

Another question - would you say you are in love with him? And if not, do you think you ever will be? And is love an essential requirement for you to be happy? It would be for me, I think.

I am over at my mom's tonight, and was discussing my slight ambivalence towards Mr Cricket, despite his many great qualities. She said she thinks it's that I am just not attracted enough to him, so everything he does is viewed through that lens. She did also say that attraction can grow (which I know to be true).

Her conclusion was that I should keep dating him for now, but not make any form of commitment to him which would stop me pursuing any other romantic opportunity arose - so no exclusivity at this point.

I see the wisdom of this but I am also wondering - is this being fair to him? I think some people probably assume exclusivity once sex has happened - if I am NOT going to be exclusive with him, do I need to actively make that clear in a conversation?

@empirebiscuits12 Hot Physio does want to sleep with you either as a one-time or more regular casually. It sounds like he is not very direct so if you want to, then you will have to take the bull by the horns and suggest a meet-up with that in mind. It might be rubbish so no need to suggest the FWB thing yet.

I am afraid his inconsistent comms is pretty consistent with a guy wanting casual. Guys tend to reserve regular texting for someone they want to build something with. I think that's what he means. Casual = low effort; relationship = consistent Comms. Up to you if you want to proceed on that basis.

@Ilovelurchers I agree with your mum! Give it a bit more of a chance, but absolutely no need to raise exclusivity while you are still uncertain. A man wouldn't!

Interesting - my FWB (who I was previously in a 5 year relationship with) has a daughter he does not see. When we first got together he absolutely convinced me that this was due to parental alienation - and in my lust-fuelled state of besottedness with him I totally swallowed it and felt really sorry for him.

However, over time various aspects of his character became more clear to me, and I now strongly question whether this was the entire truth. There was no doubt some truth in it - I don't think the mother of his child made things easy for him - but I also think he could have done more, and that it was all top easy for him to blame someone else, rather than taking responsibility for his actions.

These elements of his character are one or the reasons we are no longer together and that, in spite of our very strong chemistry, I don't feel we could ever again be in a committed relationship long term.

Going forwards, I would be MASSIVELY wary of any guy who didn't see his kids. However, I do believe it is theoretically possible that someone might find themselves in this position without it being a sign of deep character flaws - probably especially with adult children. As I have known some adults who simply refuse to accept their parents right to move on from a relationship l, and cut contact for these reasons, despite the parent's efforts to put things right.

In your position I think I would want to know more about what happened, and what he has tried and is still trying to do to improve the situation. Asking these things may seek intrusive, but to be fair, he is the one who has raised the issue, and now you understandably have questions about it - now he has given you half of the story, I think it's reasonable to ask for more details?

And go from there......

(With the usual proviso that my past love life has often involved a series of epically disastrous decisions, so I really l don't put a lot of trust in my own advice! )

@Wynter25 thank you for the update. I think the fact there have been challenges has been a good thing because it helps gauge how you both react and work together to get through them. Happy to hear that you have 🤍

@PinkNeonSign I haven’t been through anything similar although I have an adult daughter and was previously in a relationship with a guy who had 2DC (5 & 8). My DD was late teens at the time. So quite different. What was similar though was that he wasn’t the best at communicating. Whenever I tried to raise anything he would completely shut down and almost become mute, and seem as though he wanted to be anywhere but there. So I subconsciously started keeping concerns to myself, and it really didn’t end well. This man ghosted me after 3 years together because he was so shit at communicating, and it was absolutely brutal. I think you need to address the comms issue with him first and foremost otherwise you’ll really struggle with any big life issues which you may disagree on. My own personal situation as a child when one of my parents met a new partner with kids roughly the same age. We hated each other and I regularly got picked on and also beaten up a couple of times. Despite this and my obvious unhappiness my parent put their relationship first and I became bitter as I grew older. It’s a tough one. Sending love ❤️

@Lilaclane there’s been a lot of discussion on here lately about lack of compliments and small gestures. From my own experience (see description of the loser above 😂) it got in my head. It’s good you w written down a list of pros and cons but just remember that the shitty dating scene is never a good reason to stay in a relationship you’re not totally happy in. This should be the honeymoon phase, not having to listen to him grumble about his ex YEARS down the line. Only you can decide and I’m sure you’ll do what’s right for you.

@ThreeMogsAndCounting Mr Steampunk has many good qualities! If I were you I’d try to probe a bit more into why he’s been refused access to his DC and what he’s done about it. Some parents can be very spiteful and use the DC as pawns however it’s his actions in the face of it that matters. Obviously his DC are now adults….has he tried reaching out to them directly via Facebook or the like?

@Ilovelurchers your mum speaks sense! It’s always your decision however if I were in Crickets shoes and I found out a man I was sleeping with was also sleeping with others, I would be off like a shot. I think it’s only fair to let him make an informed decision on this one. He may be okay with that but I do think it’s important he knows.

Hmm...... Tricky one.

Maybe just go for a one off shag in the first instance? If the chemistry is strong enough you will probably naturally both want to repeat it - if not, it will be an experience and no harm done?

Do you know him well enough to feel safe inviting him over to your place? I can't remember how you guys met and how well you know each other......

Oh, do you think so? I took that message as him closing the door. Being honest I would love the chance to sleep with him because a) he is indeed very hot and b) I’m pretty frustrated 😂 Ever since he said he wants kids in the future I knew it would never be a long term thing, and I was content with that and happy proceeding under those terms.

I’ve already replied to him earlier saying basically “thanks for being honest, only you know whether it’s something you want to explore without the long term element. Seems like you’ve answered your own question though and that’s cool, blah blah blah”. You get the jist!

Yeah I think all along, he had no intention of seeking a relationship and was just testing the water for NSA sex. I would have had more respect for him if he had the balls to just say that, because now you two are in some sort of weird polite dance of not really saying it. Maybe time to let this one go! 😀

We met at work a few years ago and worked in a clinic together once a week for about 2 years. No flirting at all but chatted a lot between our appointments. I wouldn’t invite a man to my house as my adult DD lives with me…..too old to shop off to her dads 😂 But I do know he has his own place.

You’ve absolutely nailed it! There has definitely been this weird vibe the entire time we’ve been messaging….we know we want each other but nobody is making that first move 😩😂

Even though I’ve already replied to Hot PT, part of me just wants to message him and ask if he wants to just meet up and get this out of our systems. Put it all out there and see what he says 🙈 I feel a bit like a crazy lady and as though I’m being led by my vajayjay instead of my head 😂

Thanks all..i think what i'm hearing - and feeling - is proceed, but with caution.

It's not like cohabitation is an option any time soon so that kind of takes the 'pressure' off a bit.

Thanks so much everyone for the advice! I agonised over it and I started texting him intending to ask if he is no longer interested. As soon as I texted the first part of my shortened text, he replied and said his life is a mess at the moment with problems with his kids' school that are difficult to resolve. So I didn't follow up with the rest of my message asking for clarity. He asked about me though without indicating any intention to meet up but I believe him when he is saying he has too much on his plate at the moment. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the timing or his interest is not there. But I did follow your advice and had already arranged to go out with someone else, Mr Physics. I met with him today and he was so grounded and decent. He started holding my hand when we were chatting and I could be wrong but he seems like a nice man. He walked me to my house and he kissed me, my first since my separation. I like him on a human level but am not sure yet about attraction. But we arranged to meet up for dinner this Friday. I can't seem to figure out the pace of all these things, it seems, and hope I won't make yet another mistake.

Have some fun! Xx

I hope fridays date goes well xx

No relevant experience but I'm sorry about this bump in the road.

The transferring of his concerns to you is a worry. It sounds like it was his behaviour or approach that was lacking.

I’m due to hopefully meet the guy for a third date this weekend.

Quick question - we’ve had 2 dates where we’ve been out walking and chatting and it’s felt very natural and I’ve been realy comfrptable. He’s suggested he’s free again this Saturday or Friday - Friday would be evening - I’m thinking perhaps I should mix it up a bit and do more of a datey- date of an evening or should I stick with a Saturday daytime walk because that’s where I’ve been really comfortable.

Even though I’ve felt really comfortable I always feel super awkward at the end of the date, we’ve hugged twice but I’m thinking a little kiss would be nice without any awkwardness.

Also thinking I get to dress up a bit nicer on a Friday eve. Hmm not sure what to suggest

I suspect the combination of abusive and "not allowed" to see the children is fiction.
Sorry. It is a 🚩not to be in touch with now adult kids.