Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

Thank you for your replies, it means a lot.

I’ve been back through more old mumsnet threads from when I was pregnant with DS. Wow, my mum was causing so so much hurt. It’s quite breathtaking to read about how she and my dad were behaving at the time (2024) and how deeply afraid of them i seemed to be.

It really feels to me like this has to be it now, this has to be my line in the sand and i have to say ‘no more’. She is so so unhealthy and harmful and damaging, and at last I really don’t think I can see a way forward with the relationship right now, because she and my dad won’t change, their behaviour and the patterns and roles of the family system are so entrenched.

It’s making me feel really sad, but it’s also really eye-opening (even though I feel like my eyes have opened several times in recent years and then i’ve gone back to trying to stamp down my discomfort and revulsion and anxiety around them both. I don’t think i can do it again).

The power and fear that my mum’s behaviour held over me and then the obligation and guilt that my dad leaned on each time I started to try and put distance between myself and the family system, is all so obvious reading those threads back.

The power and fear that my mum’s behaviour held over me and then the obligation and guilt that my dad leaned on each time I started to try and put distance between myself and the family system, is all so obvious reading those threads back

its was a weird combination of repulsion and fascination, with a lot of whiplash. it takes any human a good while to see complicated situations with confident clarity.

hey all,

I still have Messenger deleted after Sunday, because I feared what bombardment I’d get there. My mum previously has used it to send lots of guilt-tripping, manipulative messages, with lots of ❤️❤️❤️, and I couldn’t face that on Sunday evening so I deleted it for the time being.

It was my sister’s birthday on Wednesday, and I sent her a birthday message via Instagram, which she acknowledged. Mum’s birthday was Tuesday and I didn’t message her on the day but had obviously seen her on Sunday, given her cards, a present, made a cake.

My family do have other contact details for me and have used them in the past (as above, too much in my mum’s case). My email and phone number haven’t changed in about 15 years or more. Today’s my birthday (ridiculous how all our birthdays are together like this, i know), and no contact from them whatsoever, not any of them.

I do want space from my parents and the toxicity of the family system, I don’t know how I’d feel if they did get in touch, but it still hurts that they haven’t, IYSWIM? I know it’s contradictory.

I think i’m wishing they could contact me without wanting anything from me or wanting me to put right something that (IMO) I didn’t break/make wrong? In an uncomplicated way. But they can’t or won’t.

If I redownload messenger, I’m dreading what I’d find there, and also feel that it would be seen as a concession or condonement of how they’ve been behaving IYSWIM? Feeling all sort of sad and complicated and contradictory feelings today.

Happy birthday!

The best present you could ever give yourself is to stay NC.

Thank you @cartagenagina

Every time I’ve posted on MN, people have advised that my mum’s behaviour is toxic and my dad is enabling her, literally every time going back to about 2018. People have also advised me it’d be in my (and now our) best interests to go NC, again going back to 2018.

To my shame, I’ve not been strong enough to do it, even when I read back how scared and struggling I was when I was pregnant with DS in 2024, and even though I felt like I’d found some resolve and strength, I couldn’t keep it up postpartum and they muscled back in.

Even though I know they’re dysfunctional and incredibly harmful and will never take accountability or apologise or change, it’s still really really hard being ‘without’ your parents.

Yes it is. It really is. It hurts a lost, and the longing can be intense.

You long for them, but you also know that when you go back the same poisonous interactions will start all over again.

There's no way to get what you (i) want, and the lack never goes away, but what I can say is that the good things in your life - partner, frineds, your own child - assume a greater importance.

It never completely goes away though, but thats because with parents like this, there can never be a safe haven.

The fact no one contacted you is significant. They may try again to suck you in, or ghis may be punishment. Even ejection from the family. Be prepared.

I had very similar, @bpddaughterhelp , enabling father, narcissistic, alcohol dependent mother. Lots of ‘don’t upset her/talk about it, it’ll only make it worse’ from my dad over the years. Mother died last week and I wasn’t even sad.

You don’t need to be in touch with them, it’s not their ‘right’. If they turn up, don’t answer, you don’t have to. Don’t download messenger again, it will only be upsetting. I too think nc is the way forward but I know how hard that is, especially with family members acting as though she can’t help it, it’s not her fault, being told I should just ignore the bad bits. I took a huge step back when my dad died, should have done it years ago. Be strong, you’re getting there with the refusing to have them at yours. Use your Dh as a shield, mine was great at supporting me. Protect your child, I think that’s key, along with protecting your own mh.

If you don't want to see them, OP, then you don't see them. Your father has no say in it. If they come to your house, don't open the door. If they ring you, don't answer the phone. It absolutely can be done, if it's what you want.

If anyone should feel shame here it’s your parents are not you. They have let you down abjectly. The decision also not to contact you on your birthday was a deliberate act.

Examine why you maintain contact with them. Deal with your FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) through therapy. These are three buttons that your parents I installed and these need to be removed. You also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. You do
not need their approval, not that they would ever give you that anyway.

And not you not are not you in my sentence above

Am I reading this right? Nobody from your family acknowledged your birthday?

Sorry, been trying to reply but the page was loading a bit skewiff. @Terrribletwos it’s possible they’ve sent a message on Messenger but I’ve not been on there since Sunday, because mum’s usual MO is to send lots of guilt-laden messages with love hearts about how she’s always there for me etc, which I didn’t want to see at the time. And my dad has left me on read since the end of September, although I saw him on Sunday too.

He thrust a card at me as we left on Sunday after mum wanted a hug/I said no/mum went off crying, and I saw during the week that it was written by him and not mum, which is maybe the second or third time that’s happened ever.

So I’m very much in trouble. I keep reminding myself that this all started (this most recent incident) because they assumed they’d visit on the weekend of 3rd October and I asked to do the weekend of the 10th instead. That was it.

And yet again, it’s all about now how hurt mum feels, even though I raised with my dad that I was hurt by mum’s behaviour and his minimisation of it.

I actually don’t know if I’ll hear from them again, and even though a very large part of me doesn’t want to, because I am angry with them, it feels really lonely actually being in it.

"To my shame, I’ve not been strong enough to" go NC.

Please don't feel shame, it's a destructive emotion. It paints you as a fundamentally bad person. It's not only untrue, it also puts you in an emotional vortex, where you can't see straight.

Going LC or NC with especially parents is a journey on a very tortuous path. Before I finally went hardcore NC, I had tried on multiple occasions to distance or LC or NC my father. Each time, I softened.

That's why I talk about "last straw eventS" ie I had MANY occasions where my father did something so bloody awful that I thought, "Right, this is IT! I absolutely cannot have this man in my life anymore!"

I was 37 when the last last straw arrived. I'd been trying to distance/LC/NC him since I was 12. So it took me 25 years to get to the point where the next last straw really did become the last, because I really had finally had enough.

So you're definitely not the only one who has had to wrestle profoundly with the decision to NC. In fact, I am quite sure that EVERYONE who has gone NC (successful or not) with a parent has also jolted back and forth like a damned yoyo trying to get to a final resolution. This is because NC is a very serious and very active decision and it hurts like hell.

Give yourself grace. Reject shame, because you don't deserve it. See yourself as being on a winding path whose full length you have to walk. Maybe you haven't quite got to the end yet.

They're likely punishing you with silence. I feel quite certain that they will be back, because people like your mother don't let go of their narc supply so easily.

"So I’m very much in trouble."

Do you hear the terrorised lonely confused young girl you used to be in that sentence? Can you look for her and give her a compassionate hug?

She's now only a small part of you. You have your own life, your kid, your made family (husband and friends), your experience, your knowledge, your power.

Don't let your parents' bullshit power moves make you think that all you are is that scared young girl.

I actually don’t know if I’ll hear from them again, and even though a very large part of me doesn’t want to, because I am angry with them, it feels really lonely actually being in it.

You are not alone, although it feels it.

Admittedly, most of us in this awful club wish we weren't. We all feel lonely even though so many of us are in this place :(

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta 's commen Do you hear the terrorised lonely confused young girl you used to be in that sentence? Can you look for her and give her a compassionate hug? is very true. That really is the terrorized lonely young girl that you were. She still lives inside you, but you are able to look after her better than your parents ever did.

So I’m very much in trouble.

i don’t know if this helps you like it helped me but when i got foggy and felt like i was being unkind just by protecting myself i imagined a team of trauma counsellors, family experts, social workers, psychologists, just a group of professionals that were trained to be impartial and if they had the facts of the matter. the list of unforgivables that just got longer year on year that they’d be saying ‘speakball. you need to stay away from your family.’

not one would be ‘well, she did drop you off at the supermarket once’

As an asult you dont have to accept that abuse is part of your life.
Surely you don't ever want your dc to feel like your family make you feel ?
My dm hasn't seen my dc since 2012.

You now have the non communication you wanted and I very much hope you now enjoy it.

I had an upbringing like this and haven’t spoken to my mum in nearly 20 years. I actually can’t remember how long it’s been, I had a lot of therapy and manage to keep her in a box in my head most of the time.

Although it was hard I cannot tell you how much my mental health improved once I’d gone through the first few months of dealing with ‘losing’ my mother and the flying monkeys that were trying to bring me back in line.

No one who hasn’t had a mother like this ‘gets’ it, and I did go through a stage where I felt like I had to justify things if the subject came up. These days if someone pushes or says something like ‘but she’s your mum’ I tell them they are lucky they don’t understand. Which is true.

Good luck, I hope you get your peace.

I will follow this up by saying therapy did not help at all while I still had a relationship with her. I could only move forward and ‘heal’ after I’d removed myself from being treated like that.

You feel bad that you refused to comfort your mum and allow her to be the victim. That is how they made you feel when you don’t conform to their rules. That feeling of dread, shame and panic is how they conditioned you to feel when you dare to speak out or displease them. You have to really feel and examine that toxic waiting to be punished feeling inside and write down if need be every time you feel it what is the worst thing that they could do to you. What is your biggest fear? Abandonment? Stop loving you? Then write down the truth of your fears. They have never been there for you, supported you or cheered you on in your life so they can’t take away what they never gave. How can’t they love you when they don’t know who you are? They only know the puppet they want you to be and try to cut out the bits that don’t align with their wishes. The worst thing they could do to you is stamp out your son’s personality and instil fear of displeasing them in him. To make him feel ashamed of having his own wants and needs and warping his self esteem.

Hey all.

Hope it’s ok to bump. I’m finding it hard that my dad still hasn’t acknowledged my message from 27th about how difficult I’ve found things. This week on the group chat there’s only been generic comments from my mum about the clock change.

I just don’t know where we go from here. Partly I’m relieved that we haven’t had the huge blowout of emotion from them and the bombardment of messages etc that I was expecting (eg. my dad driving up in tears to tell me he didn’t know why he had children, which is what happened last time), but the silence is quite eerie and disconcerting. I know my mum won’t reach out in any meaningful way, because she can’t, she only sees herself and her feelings, but I really thought my dad might, could, possibly. He’s recognised before how damaging her behaviour is/was because he told me almost 10 years ago he was worried that I wouldn’t let them see my future children. But now it’s ‘back in the box’, if that makes sense. Head in the sand again.

Yesterday I had this feeling of being a little girl again and all I could think was ‘nobody is coming.’ I don’t know where to go from here.

DH thinks I should initiate contact and smooth things over, but that’s what I’ve always done. I’m always the one to go towards them and put my feelings aside, never them. And I know that doing that won’t make me feel any better, really.

Just feel a bit lost and adrift, I think. Thank you if you’re reading x

Did your finger slip? Come back!

It did! Edited now x

You have to be comfortable with the silence. Can you archive the family chat?