I'm in a bit of a difficult situation, 're jealousy from friends' partners.

[Appalonia]

this is a bit of a long tale, so please hear with me. I'm single and I've been doing a hobby for the past 5 years. During this time I've become friends with 2 guys whom I've met through it.. I became friends with one guy as he used to give me a lift home afterwards, as I don't drive and he lived on my way home. The three of us often went for a drink after, we all got on great, just as mates.

However, recently it's all got rather complicated, all behind my back

So, in June, one of these guys, let's call him Pete, told me that his girlfriend
( whom I had met 7 times, and we'd always got on great ) had banned him from seeing me outside the classes/ group that we went to, as she was jealous of me. I was really shocked as I had no idea she felt like this. He only told me as if asked him if he was interested in going to an event related to the hobby and he was being a bit non committal about it. He said he was starting to feel controlled and suffocated by her demands. It just felt so stupid to me, as there was never anything between us, at all. It almost broke them up, but eventually they did reconcile. She admitted she had trust issues, due to her having been cheated on before. I've tried to be a good friend to him and help him work through it, but tbh I feel pretty pissed off with her for affecting our friendship, over nothing.

So tonight, we went out for a drink and he tells me that the wife of the other guy in our hobby group is ALSO jealous of me. This shocked me even more, as this is the guy that used to give me a lift home. Apparently, she didn't like the fact that other people in the pub that the 3 of us used to go to, would see him with another woman, which is the reason why she then started joining us in the pub after our weekly group.

I've just never experienced anything like this before, I've always had male friends and to me they were just mates. I now feel in a really awkward position knowing how the partners
both feel about me. I don't want to give up my hobby and I'd like to somehow sort it out with these women, but I don't know how.

I've never flirted with these men, as I said, I never saw them as anything more than mates. This only came out tonight as if found out the 4 of them had gone out for a drink without me, whereas before, we'd all have gone out together. Pete very reluctantly told me about how this other woman was feeling about me and then it all made sense.

I feel upset, excluded and most of all, feel like I'm being penalised but I haven't done anything wrong! I don't know how to make this situation any better. I have no romantic interest in these men whatsoever, I like them as people and they're the only people I have to share this hobby with, which I don't want to give up.

I don't really know what I'm expecting from this thread, but any advice would be gratefully received.

It’s just the way it is. Most people wouldn’t want their partners to have a new female friends outside of work and hobbies.

I don’t understand how many people here seem to be missing the point…the wives/partners have expressed a vulnerability, and the men have told OP.

OP should not have been told at all about the wives being worried about her. In telling her that it has caused an issue in the friendships. That they were willing to break their wives/partners trust with the very person they are worried about, shows a lack of respect in the relationship…this lack of respect will be shown in other ways which will be the reason the partners feel insecure.

These men are the issue, the wives are the ‘victims’, and the OP has been put in a bad place by these men…but @Appalonia I do think you fail to consider that these men are breaching their partners trust. If you were in their shoes, and had concerns over another woman, how would you feel if your partner told her and made you the problem? A little bit of empathy goes a long way.

Shunned? 😂 Dramatic, much? I’ll happily talk to your DP at a dinner party or on the side of the soccer field as our kids play or on a joint camping trip. I just don’t want to hang out with him at the pub or go on cycle rides just me and him or hang out at your place without you there.

And I’m sure he’ll recover from this painful “shunning” or more likely will not even notice this boundary that I have quietly put in place to everyone’s benefit.

Maybe the women have cause to be jealous from the men’s pov.

It’s difficult. you aren’t doing anything wrong, but maybe they are?

Sounds like a strange and regressive social circle to me, where you can't strike up new friendships once you have a partner, and your social interaction with the opposite sex is then limited to small talk about the weather and your work.

It's not magic and there's no entrance exam. Just my experience of my social circles (multiple and separate ones).

I'm always surprised that so many MNers are surprised by sleazy behaviour though. Sleazy men always signpost themselves early and obviously, in my experience.

I don't think a single man coming on to a single woman is necessarily sleazy behaviour, though.

I'm perfectly happy for DH to make new friends of either sex in any context. I've made quite a few new male friends in the time we've been together. I really don't see this as an issue and it's certainly not how "most people" think.

No, this is completely normal.

Why on earth would you assume that means people are reduced to discussing only the weather and their jobs? I am sorry if thats your only boring topic of conversation but it's certainly not mine!

If I've met my friend's husband/partner, I can quite happily chat to him, have a laugh, discuss shared interests and enjoy his company when we're all together. I don't suddenly have to pretend he's a cardboard cut-out.

But if I already know him through his partner, why would I specifically seek him out for one-to-one coffees and drinks away from her? That's a completely different thing and frankly, a bit odd.

"Why aren't you striking up separate friendships with other women's partners?" is a very strange hill to die on. 😂

I have done that in the past with men from work and it's been idiotically misinterpreted as me wanting sex so you cant blame women for being wary of this.

No, I don't think that's true.

Well, his loss and yours too, I suppose

I'm always surprised that so many MNers are surprised by sleazy behaviour though. Sleazy men always signpost themselves early and obviously, in my experience.

You literally said find better social circles - that indicates that there is a better class of men that wont be sleazy. But my point is- there isn't. Men can be sleazy no matter how long you've known them and how long you're trusted them in the past. Not all men indicate they are sleazy in the beginning- hence why its so shocking at times.

But in OP's specific scenario, her male friends are very obviously indicating red flags and I am very surprised that women are encouraging her to remain friends with these two dickheads who are clearly being selective about the truth and what they are telling her.

I don’t know where you are getting any of that from! I have great, interesting and deep conversations with male friends; I’m good friends with one of my friend’s partners and she always laughs about the extensive rabbit holes he and I go down. However no matter how interesting the conversation, I wouldn’t sit up drinking with him after she’s gone to bed.

Another friend’s husband has a similar speciality interest to me and we’ve had some great conversations about that. I really don’t feel any need to carry on the friendship beyond shared gatherings though. My male colleagues and I talk about books, films, family, politics, all sorts, not just work and the weather.

As for new friendships… I’m a single mum, I have majority care of my children, i have a boyfriend, I have an aging mother, I have a demanding full-time job, I sit on a school board and I have interests. I have barely enough time for all my existing friends, let alone striking up new friendships with men. I’m honestly flabbergasted this is a controversial stance to take.

Quite honestly I wouldn’t want to be involved with these men’s drama any longer and would happily step away. You’ve done nothing wrong. You just need to see it as two people who have issues to resolve with their own partners and it doesn’t involve you.

But if I already know him through his partner, why would I specifically seek him out for one-to-one coffees and drinks away from her? That's a completely different thing and frankly, a bit odd.

It's not about specifically seeking him out for one-to-ones, it's just about letting a friendship develop organically.

For example, several years ago one of my friends' boyfriends happened to be working on the next street over from my office. We'd sometimes go for lunch because it was convenient, sometimes even a drink after work. I was single at the time, even more scandalous. (They're married, we're all still friends.)

Recently I've got to know another of my friend's husbands better because he works in the same industry as me and I keep running into him at various events. On a work trip abroad I really enjoyed having someone to go out to dinner with who wasn't a direct colleague.

Sometimes you end up going to see gigs or films with friends' partners because it's a genre you're into and your friend isn't.

A lot of this is also about welcoming a new partner into the fold of the wider social group. It's just inherently a good thing to get to know people better and make new friends.

I also have plenty of male friends and have done similar to their new girlfriends over the years. Non-controversial to you, I imagine? Yet it's exactly the same when I get to know a female friend's new boyfriend better.

I think my main takeaway from these threads is that it sounds utterly fucking miserable to be heterosexual or to move in predominantly heterosexual circles.

OK, to me when I find a shared topic of interest there'll usually be something IRL to do around it. New friend wants to see the same film I do? Let's go next week. You're into that singer who's on tour? Let's go. You play tennis as well - want to hit sometime? You feel passionately about refugee rights - there's a march next week. This is how friendships develop.

I've stayed up late drinking with my friends' partners on so many occasions (as they have with DH). That's just about who gets tired and who doesn't!

You're now describing something quite different from what you implied earlier.

Of course friendships can develop organically, and I don't think there's anything remotely wrong with getting to know a friend's partner. Your examples of bumping into someone through work, going for lunch because you're nearby, sharing an industry, or all going to gigs together sound completely normal.

The distinction I'd make is between "I've naturally become friendly with my friend's partner" and "I've developed a separate friendship with my friend's partner which exists independently of her." Add to that, I am now bitching about my partner to them, putting them in a very awkward position

Those aren't necessarily the same thing.

And yes, of course I'd apply exactly the same principle to female partners. If my male friend gets a new girlfriend and I get to know her, have a laugh with her and eventually become friends with her, that's perfectly normal. In fact, I'd actively want everyone to get along.

The question here is what kind of friendship has developed, what the boundaries are, and why two separate partners have apparently become uncomfortable with it.

And that's where I still think Pete is the more interesting character in this particular story because I dont think he has genuine motives at all. Yet people in this thread still keep saying its these two women theyre dating thats the problem.

As for new friendships… I’m a single mum, I have majority care of my children, i have a boyfriend, I have an aging mother, I have a demanding full-time job, I sit on a school board and I have interests. I have barely enough time for all my existing friends, let alone striking up new friendships with men. I’m honestly flabbergasted this is a controversial stance to take.

It's not. it's normal. I am like you- I have kids, a family, elder responsibilities, I run my own business etc. I simply dont have time to stay up drinking with random people or go to a gig at the last moment with someone I just met.

I barely have time to meet up regularly with the friends ive known for years. Ignore people telling you it's abnormal. It's really not.

But the heterosexuals are split between those that are completely comfortable with opposite sex friendships and those that are wary of them, not one mass of group-think.

You must have a lot of spare time to be doing all that. But basically no. I don’t want to go to a gig with my male colleague rather than one of my girlfriends or go see The Odyssey with my bestie’s husband, even if I’ll happily talk with him about it afterwards.

Based on my experiences, this can often become dangerous territory. I’m glad this has never been your experience. But this thread clearly demonstrates I’m not alone in finding a cautious approach to be preferable. I really don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything, and I’m avoiding potential situations that I’m very happy to avoid.

Why is life drawing 'not fine'?

Re "it doesnt matter what you do, if someone's going to cheat, they'll cheat".. i dont think thats necessarily true

The distinction I'd make is between "I've naturally become friendly with my friend's partner" and "I've developed a separate friendship with my friend's partner which exists independently of her."**

But what I'm talking about is the latter. I've known some of my friends' partners, and DH's friends, for nearly two decades now. At this point who was friends with who first seems fairly irrelevant.

If I want to go to an Erykah Badu gig with my friend's partner, when neither DH nor my friend are fans, then yes I'll arrange it independently with him. It's not a secret but I don't think DH would appreciate being added to that whatsapp conversation.

In my experience it's not dangerous territory so I'll go to a gig or the cinema with whoever's available when I am.

Having less free time is conducive to this, I've found. I'm in a couple of whatsapp groups that include various combinations of my friends, their partners, DH's friends, their partners and often someone will just drop a message in along the lines of "anyone up for a drink in central tonight" or "I'm going to see Backrooms next Thursday, anyone else want to join". And sometimes there'll be a group of you and sometimes it'll be just one other person who might even be your friend's partner, and it's just... all fine and a non-issue.

Why on earth is it ‘dangerous territory’? Do you imagine ‘going to see The Odyssey’ involves snogging in the back row of the cinema or something?