I'm in a bit of a difficult situation, 're jealousy from friends' partners.

[Appalonia]

this is a bit of a long tale, so please hear with me. I'm single and I've been doing a hobby for the past 5 years. During this time I've become friends with 2 guys whom I've met through it.. I became friends with one guy as he used to give me a lift home afterwards, as I don't drive and he lived on my way home. The three of us often went for a drink after, we all got on great, just as mates.

However, recently it's all got rather complicated, all behind my back

So, in June, one of these guys, let's call him Pete, told me that his girlfriend
( whom I had met 7 times, and we'd always got on great ) had banned him from seeing me outside the classes/ group that we went to, as she was jealous of me. I was really shocked as I had no idea she felt like this. He only told me as if asked him if he was interested in going to an event related to the hobby and he was being a bit non committal about it. He said he was starting to feel controlled and suffocated by her demands. It just felt so stupid to me, as there was never anything between us, at all. It almost broke them up, but eventually they did reconcile. She admitted she had trust issues, due to her having been cheated on before. I've tried to be a good friend to him and help him work through it, but tbh I feel pretty pissed off with her for affecting our friendship, over nothing.

So tonight, we went out for a drink and he tells me that the wife of the other guy in our hobby group is ALSO jealous of me. This shocked me even more, as this is the guy that used to give me a lift home. Apparently, she didn't like the fact that other people in the pub that the 3 of us used to go to, would see him with another woman, which is the reason why she then started joining us in the pub after our weekly group.

I've just never experienced anything like this before, I've always had male friends and to me they were just mates. I now feel in a really awkward position knowing how the partners
both feel about me. I don't want to give up my hobby and I'd like to somehow sort it out with these women, but I don't know how.

I've never flirted with these men, as I said, I never saw them as anything more than mates. This only came out tonight as if found out the 4 of them had gone out for a drink without me, whereas before, we'd all have gone out together. Pete very reluctantly told me about how this other woman was feeling about me and then it all made sense.

I feel upset, excluded and most of all, feel like I'm being penalised but I haven't done anything wrong! I don't know how to make this situation any better. I have no romantic interest in these men whatsoever, I like them as people and they're the only people I have to share this hobby with, which I don't want to give up.

I don't really know what I'm expecting from this thread, but any advice would be gratefully received.

I'm not sure why you're saying on the one hand that I wrote sexist nonsense, and then on the other hand, go on to agree with the points I made.

Of course women can be friends with men and vice versa. But there is a point beyond which you should not go when the other person is in a relationship. That's the step between getting on in a friendly way with people you know well... and becoming close personal friends.

Is there no activity that MN can't turn into sex?

This site is the most sex-obsessed place on the internet and I include all the awful male forums I've lurked on.

Odd how, despite what you just said, there are so many examples of men and women going climbing together and then not having sex.

It's really weird to treat men as some sort of different species whose brains work completely differently.

As if women never think about sex, never experience visual attraction and never prioritise it when they shouldn't?

I think if you seriously believe the sexes to be a) homogeneous and b) so vastly different, you may be the naive one.

Friendships with men who are in relationships are just not possible, despite what everyone cool tries to say.

Oh here we go with the cool wives accusation again.

Look, I'm not invested in convincing random sex-obsessed MNers that my lived experience where men and women can be normal platonic friends is real. I just don't understand why you insist it's impossible despite so many people saying that it's actually perfectly normal.

@Iris2020 when you put yourself in that kind of position, it creates the environment to make it possible / more likely and in itself it's a betrayal of the partner by them, and cavalier behaviour by you.

I just don't understand the logic of avoiding friendship with men because it makes it more possible that an affair might happen.

I mean, why stop there? Wearing makeup makes you more attractive, and so it's more likely that a married man might feel attracted to you, so you'd better not wear makeup, out of respect for his wife.

Even chatting in a friendly way to a man makes an eventual affair more likely (because it never would have started if you hadn't chatted!), so better not engage at all, right?

It's nuts. Surely the most effective way to ensure an affair never happens is simply not to have an affair.

Yes, it's bizarre. It must operate off the same anxious, status-obsessed set of gendered assumptions that see the MIL/DIL relationship as invariably one of vicious rivalry (because a man has only Room in his Life for One Woman!) and sees female friendship groups as full of 'drama' and one-up-manship because women are, in this view, always in competition with one another. It may explain also the recent spate of 'awful SIL' threads, because she's also another 'rival' for a DH's prized attention.

It must be an exhaustingly insecure way to live.

Yes, two makes me wonder.

Not if the friend you're opening up to is one of the issues in the relationship!

Genuine question: do you really think Pete is the stand-up, decent bloke in this scenario?

He tells OP he's trapped in a "suffocating and controlling" relationship because his girlfriend, having previously been cheated on, apparently doesn't like him spending time with OP. He's supposedly been "banned" from seeing her. They then split up.

You'd think that after being liberated from this terrible, suffocating relationship he'd be delighted, wouldn't you? He's finally got his freedom back! Yay! 🎉

But oh, wait...

Nope. Straight back to the suffocating, controlling woman. They reconcile -and lo and behold, he's back down the pub having chats and drinks with OP.

So... what's changed exactly? Has the girlfriend suddenly had an epiphany and decided OP is actually lovely after all? Or is Pete perhaps giving OP a rather selective version of events?

And then, just to add another layer, Pete tells OP that her other male friend can't see her either because his wife is apparently another jealous shrew.
What are the odds, eh?

These poor, poor men. Somehow they have both managed to attract these awful, jealous women who apparently imprison them in Victorian marriages where they have no freedom whatsoever and yet somehow they still manage to get down the pub with OP to regale her with tales of just how terrible their partners are. 😂

At this point, I'm struggling to understand why the obvious common denominator is supposed to be two supposedly irrational women, rather than two men who seem remarkably keen to tell OP about how jealous and unreasonable their partners are.

You really don't see any red flags here?
Because I see enough to decorate a parade. 😂

You do sound like a threat tbh. Are you very good looking?

Completely agree

I have friends who are men, and the OH has friends who are women. It's been the friends and their partners to resolve issues including jealousy. Nothing to do with you.

There's nothing you can or should do. Just be yourself.

Their partners don't want them to socialise with you, so just stick to seeing them at your hobby. It doesn't matter if they have trust issues or are being completely unreasonable - that's a matter for them to work out between them. Also please bear in mind that you only know one side of the story. You don't know what these men might have done or said. Maybe the partners have reason to be worried or jealous.

I think it's very strange that you feel "pissed off with her" that she's "affecting your friendship".....erm, is it not the other way round, the woman is pissed off that you're affecting her relationship.

I've just never heard of someone sounding as though their friend's partner is somehow stepping on their turf.

Just continue to go to your hobby and interact with your friends there.

Personally I wouldn’t like my husband going out with a female friend either. He goes out with work of course, males and females but it’s a big group.

Actually it's been debunked that men think about sex so much more than women, it's a fractional difference and certainly not enough to warrant all the apologist crap you're talking. It was certainly debunked that they 'think about sex every 7 seconds'.

So there isn't a biological basis for it at all.

Stop excusing and infantilising men.

Sadly in my experience of life whenever I was friends with heterosexual men sooner or later they would try it on.
Even when I would have sworn they were my friend and didn't think of me that way, they did and were just lying in wait for the right opportunity.

That's what I started hanging out with the gays.

When I got divorced my ex H friend's were like dogs with two dicks 😡

So no I no longer believe hetero men and women can be friends.

I think it probably is relevant or you just would have said what it was. As someone else mentioned, if it’s something like life drawing or a spicy book group then that is relevant because it could colour their partners feelings toward you

Same, in the brief time I was single all my male "pals" tried it on. Except one. Who funnily enough was described to me by another woman as the only male friend who'd never tried it on with her. He's not gay either. Just an exception.

You’ve done nothing wrong, OP. It’s a shame that it’s impacted your joy there. I hope your friends get away from those women. They clearly don’t know the difference between their own imaginations and actual intuition.

Exactly what I was going to say. All you know is what Pete's told you. He may not be giving you the full picture. It's possible Pete fancies you and this is a roundabout way of introducing the idea of there being something between you and also introducing the idea that there are problems in his relationship.
My instinct (based on limited info) is that Pete has an agenda here.

It's depressing isn't it? That one male friend who didn't sounds like marriage material compared to the rest.

I once woke up to one married straight male 'friend' sending me a video of him wanking.
It wasn't sent by mistake either, the message with it made it clear he was shooting his shot (so to speak) 😩

My best friend in the early 90s was a man, I thought I could trust him with my life, thought he was like a brother.
I woke up after a night out to find him trying to have sex with me. 😡

I know there are good ones out there but they are vanishingly rare.

Yes !!! And these awful girlfriends as usually at home bloody looking after the children while these twits say just how hard it is for them to other women in pubs.
Maybe the wives are aware their partners have wondering eyes or have experienced them cheating .
Why is this man talking about his jealous wife to you ?
To me uk sound naive and I’m not suprised these women don’t like it . Sorry you seem abit immature.

The flip side of jealousy is insecurity and clearly these women see a single, attractive woman who shares a common interest with their men as a threat. It’s probably more about not trusting their partners than questioning your character but is it worth getting involved with this drama? You don’t need to ‘fix’ this; step back, be cordial while doing the hobby and leave it there. I’m sure you have other friends or different people within the hobby group you can socialise with.

I understand, OP, and I get where you are coming from.
However, the "wives & significant others" of your hobby-mates obviously have their own points of view. This is entirely understandable.
If you want the current situation to be able to continue as is, such that you remain on the same terms with both male fellow-enthusiasts, then you may have to indulge in some slight subterfuge:

a) let it be understood that you may/be are probably gay
and / or
b) have, or invent, an absent love to whom you are engaged.
In other words, give your hobby-mates a story they can share with their DPs.
This will only work / will only be ok AS LONG AS what you've portrayed to us is the truth, and that you ARE NOT, in any way, hoping or intending to 'get off' with one of your mates.